God created the world in 7 days? or Big Bang?

[Jehuddah]

No. That's still against the law, our brain is way too complicated.

Our brain is no more complicated then any configuration of matter of approximately equal size.

If you make a computer, you can't add the computer more information than you know.

Absolutely you can. Indeed, it's trivial to do this.

That's exactly it, the non-intelligent sun is not enough to create our brain.

Of course not, it merely provides the energy to counteract the second law of thermodynamics.

1. No, we hold information and organized cells which are working harmonically.
2. Not including false information, I mean real information, you can't tell true facts to a computer if you don't even know them.

[Thrice Crownlands]

What???No. In order for the second law of thermodynamics to hold, the system needs to be a closed system. Since the Earth receives energy from an outside source (the sun) the Earth cannot be considered a closed system and so the the second law of thermodynamics has no relevance. We intelligent beings evolved of millions of years.

No. That's still against the law, our brain is way too complicated.
If you make a computer, you can't add the computer more information than you know.

That's exactly it, the non-intelligent sun is not enough to create our brain.

Then you're proposing an infinite causality stream; I could just as well question "Well, what created your god?" Since you're operating on the assumption that everything needs to be created by something more intelligent then you (To remove the possability that humanity evolved by adaption and chance), then you god would logically need to be created by something even greater... ect. ect. ect. It would never end, thus making the entire line of thinking completely illogical.

But in your asseration, you assume I"m programming he computer on purpose. Evolution dosen't function like that; it works in minor shifts in the programing, the primative AI having means to perpetuate and advance programs which it finds more useful. Over millions of years, this builds up from a primative program to a more advanced one.

[Czechanada]

No. That's still against the law, our brain is way too complicated.
If you make a computer, you can't add the computer more information than you know.

That's exactly it, the non-intelligent sun is not enough to create our brain.

As a computer scientist I assure you that it is trivially easy for me to provide a computer with information that I do not possess.

As a criminologist, I am thankful for this.

[Transhuman Proteus]

What???No. In order for the second law of thermodynamics to hold, the system needs to be a closed system. Since the Earth receives energy from an outside source (the sun) the Earth cannot be considered a closed system and so the the second law of thermodynamics has no relevance. We intelligent beings evolved of millions of years.

No. That's still against the law, our brain is way too complicated.
If you make a computer, you can't add the computer more information than you know.

That's exactly it, the non-intelligent sun is not enough to create our brain.

That's a mighty big assumption there, one not supported by science at large in either of the fields you are mashing together.

Your concept of complexity and how it works might be the problem.

Oh - and it really isn't hard to make a computer with a lot more information than I know. Software and things like that you know.

[Jehuddah]

Probably not, let's keep it like that.

Then likewise, God probably doesn't exist. </post>

But God seems to be the only missing link of the conflict of the second law of thermodynamics and the theory of evolution, and maybe, he is the external complicated force?
I'm agnostic but think about that.

[Anachronous Rex]

Our brain is no more complicated then any configuration of matter of approximately equal size.


Absolutely you can. Indeed, it's trivial to do this.


Of course not, it merely provides the energy to counteract the second law of thermodynamics.

1. No, we hold information and organized cells which are working harmonically.

Because they metabolize energy. Energy which has its origins in the sun.

2. Not including false information, I mean real information, you can't tell true facts to a computer if you don't even know them.

I absolutely can. I am, for instance, downloading something at this moment. My computer is gaining information at my command, but I don't really know what that information is.

[Neutraligon]

Our brain is no more complicated then any configuration of matter of approximately equal size.


Absolutely you can. Indeed, it's trivial to do this.


Of course not, it merely provides the energy to counteract the second law of thermodynamics.

1. No, we hold information and organized cells which are working harmonically.
2. Not including false information, I mean real information, you can't tell true facts to a computer if you don't even know them.

1. What do you mean they work harmonically?
2. I am not sure what you are saying.

[Jehuddah]

No. That's still against the law, our brain is way too complicated.
If you make a computer, you can't add the computer more information than you know.

That's exactly it, the non-intelligent sun is not enough to create our brain.

Then you're proposing an infinite causality stream; I could just as well question "Well, what created your god?" Since you're operating on the assumption that everything needs to be created by something more intelligent then you (To remove the possability that humanity evolved by adaption and chance), then you god would logically need to be created by something even greater... ect. ect. ect. It would never end, thus making the entire line of thinking completely illogical.

But in your asseration, you assume I"m programming he computer on purpose. Evolution dosen't function like that; it works in minor shifts in the programing, the primative AI having means to perpetuate and advance programs which it finds more useful. Over millions of years, this builds up from a primative program to a more advanced one.

Actually, if God exists it does not apply on him, he is outside the universe, our physics and our logic.

[Farnhamia]

Then likewise, God probably doesn't exist. </post>

But God seems to be the only missing link of the conflict of the second law of thermodynamics and the theory of evolution, and maybe, he is the external complicated force?
I'm agnostic but think about that.

He's missing only in your somewhat eccentric understanding of the 2nd Law.

[Anachronous Rex]

1. No, we hold information and organized cells which are working harmonically.
2. Not including false information, I mean real information, you can't tell true facts to a computer if you don't even know them.

1. What do you mean they work harmonically?
2. I am not sure what you are saying.

They're very musical.

[Ifreann]

Becasuse there just might be an invisible, intangible dragon in hiser bedroom?

Probably not, let's keep it like that.

My dragon is every bit as likely as your God.

---

Our brain is no more complicated then any configuration of matter of approximately equal size.


Absolutely you can. Indeed, it's trivial to do this.


Of course not, it merely provides the energy to counteract the second law of thermodynamics.

1. No, we hold information and organized cells which are working harmonically.
2. Not including false information, I mean real information, you can't tell true facts to a computer if you don't even know them.

Yes I can.

---

Then likewise, God probably doesn't exist. </post>

But God seems to be the only missing link of the conflict of the second law of thermodynamics and the theory of evolution, and maybe, he is the external complicated force?
I'm agnostic but think about that.

There is no conflict between the laws of thermodynamics and the theory of evolution. You are just wrong.

[Orenica]

Don't really know. Big bang seems like a good observation of things from our perspective, but eventually you go back to the whole First Cause thing.

But the God needs a 'First Cause' too. It's turtles all the way down...

[Jehuddah]

1. No, we hold information and organized cells which are working harmonically.

Because they metabolize energy. Energy which has its origins in the sun.

2. Not including false information, I mean real information, you can't tell true facts to a computer if you don't even know them.

I absolutely can. I am, for instance, downloading something at this moment. My computer is gaining information at my command, but I don't really know what that information is.

1. But the energy cannot create this magnificent system.
2. But another person wrote the thing you download, right? So he holds the information.

[Neutraligon]

Then likewise, God probably doesn't exist. </post>

But God seems to be the only missing link of the conflict of the second law of thermodynamics and the theory of evolution, and maybe, he is the external complicated force?
I'm agnostic but think about that.

There is no conflict, the earth is not a closed system, and therefore the second law cannot apply. The brain is not a closed system, and therefore the second law cannot apply.

[Freiheit Reich]

He tortures but loves at the same time.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Slaanesh?

You're not convincing people using that argument.

Just trying to convince people he exists. Whether you love him or not is up to you.

I fear God because I know how much power he has. I also respect God for the same reason. I know God can kill me anytime he wishes just as he can kill you at anytime. We just have to live our lives and hope he lets us live for many more years.

The creation of earth demonstrates his powers.

For the believers of Big Bang without God I challenge you to watch a sunset at a beautiful spot, maybe a beach or mountain. Or maybe go walking in the New England forests on a dry and cool autumn day with leaves of red and gold. Birds singing sweet songs overhead. Or maybe look at and listen to the awesome power of Niagara Falls.

Ask yourselves, can these things be created without a divine being?

[Transhuman Proteus]

Then likewise, God probably doesn't exist. </post>

But God seems to be the only missing link of the conflict of the second law of thermodynamics and the theory of evolution, and maybe, he is the external complicated force?
I'm agnostic but think about that.

Care to provide a source to an evolutionary scientist or physicist who believes that? Because most evolutionists (ok, all of the ones I can think of) don't seem to have the same hang up you do in this area.

[Immoren]

Just trying to convince people he exists. Whether you love him or not is up to you.

I fear God because I know how much power he has. I also respect God for the same reason. I know God can kill me anytime he wishes just as he can kill you at anytime. We just have to live our lives and hope he lets us live for many more years.

The creation of earth demonstrates his powers.

For the believers of Big Bang without God I challenge you to watch a sunset at a beautiful spot, maybe a beach or mountain. Or maybe go walking in the New England forests on a dry and cool autumn day with leaves of red and gold. Birds singing sweet songs overhead. Or maybe look at and listen to the awesome power of Niagara Falls.

Ask yourselves, can these things be created without a divine being?

Why it does have to be YHWH?

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Ask yourselves, can these things be created without a divine being?

Yes.

[Individuality-ness]

Then likewise, God probably doesn't exist. </post>

But God seems to be the only missing link of the conflict of the second law of thermodynamics and the theory of evolution, and maybe, he is the external complicated force?
I'm agnostic but think about that.

There is no missing link. It's been explained to you that the Earth is not a closed system, so that the second law of thermodynamics does not apply, and that all that's needed is energy for smaller reactions that soon lead to larger effects. Your refusal to see this is due to your ignorance on the subject, your arrogance is because you're grasping at straws to justify your creationist beliefs. You might as well admit it now, it's painfully obvious to us scientific literate users.

Also, stupid iPod.

[Neutraligon]

Because they metabolize energy. Energy which has its origins in the sun.


I absolutely can. I am, for instance, downloading something at this moment. My computer is gaining information at my command, but I don't really know what that information is.

1. But the energy cannot create this magnificent system.
2. But another person wrote the thing you download, right? So he holds the information.

1. The energy can be used to create the system. in fact the energy is necessary to create the system. You do not seem to understand what I am saying. in order for the second law of thermodynamics to be used, the system you are considering needs to be a closed system. For a system to be a closed system, it cannot receive energy from outside the system. Since the Earth receives energy from outside the system, it cannot be a closed system and therefore the second law does not and cannot apply.

[Immoren]

But God seems to be the only missing link of the conflict of the second law of thermodynamics and the theory of evolution, and maybe, he is the external complicated force?
I'm agnostic but think about that.

Why it's necessarily your god?

[Jehuddah]

But God seems to be the only missing link of the conflict of the second law of thermodynamics and the theory of evolution, and maybe, he is the external complicated force?
I'm agnostic but think about that.

There is no conflict, the earth is not a closed system, and therefore the second law cannot apply. The brain is not a closed system, and therefore the second law cannot apply.

But unless there is something MORE COMPLICATED, it doesn't matter how much open system there is.

[Czechanada]

Then you're proposing an infinite causality stream; I could just as well question "Well, what created your god?" Since you're operating on the assumption that everything needs to be created by something more intelligent then you (To remove the possability that humanity evolved by adaption and chance), then you god would logically need to be created by something even greater... ect. ect. ect. It would never end, thus making the entire line of thinking completely illogical.

But in your asseration, you assume I"m programming he computer on purpose. Evolution dosen't function like that; it works in minor shifts in the programing, the primative AI having means to perpetuate and advance programs which it finds more useful. Over millions of years, this builds up from a primative program to a more advanced one.

Actually, if God exists it does not apply on him, he is outside the universe, our physics and our logic.

So why does God get a free pass instead of physics and logic?

Don't claim others are being unscientific and then make posts like these.

[Farnhamia]

Because they metabolize energy. Energy which has its origins in the sun.


I absolutely can. I am, for instance, downloading something at this moment. My computer is gaining information at my command, but I don't really know what that information is.

1. But the energy cannot create this magnificent system.
2. But another person wrote the thing you download, right? So he holds the information.

1. Just because you don't understand how ...
2. All information does not require someone to originate it. For instance, we have machines on Mars that are gathering information about the planet. It is information that we do not currently have - no one had it - and no person is sending it to us.

[Thrice Crownlands]

Then you're proposing an infinite causality stream; I could just as well question "Well, what created your god?" Since you're operating on the assumption that everything needs to be created by something more intelligent then you (To remove the possability that humanity evolved by adaption and chance), then you god would logically need to be created by something even greater... ect. ect. ect. It would never end, thus making the entire line of thinking completely illogical.

But in your asseration, you assume I"m programming he computer on purpose. Evolution dosen't function like that; it works in minor shifts in the programing, the primative AI having means to perpetuate and advance programs which it finds more useful. Over millions of years, this builds up from a primative program to a more advanced one.

Actually, if God exists it does not apply on him, he is outside the universe, our physics and our logic.

Why? If he exists outside of physics and logic, he coulden't feasibly interact with them. You propose to give your god a pass to do what is logically impossible; the mere asseration of being excused from the laws of the universe does not make it so. I could claim I"m my own father, just that non self-fathering people can't comprhend how I did so, but that's scientific bunk', because science, by its very nature, must work on laws that can be understood by observation; something everybody can do.

Not to mention, physics and logic affect everything we know exists. It is a scientific law that that which exists is subject to physics and logic. To say something exists outside these two is thus saying it does no exist.