Explosions at Boston Marathon

[Farnhamia]

MASSIVE WALL OF TINFOIL

I didn't advance a single conspiracy theory. I reject them until sufficient evidence has been advanced, which means I tend to reject nearly all of them out of hand. Tinfoil usually refers to people attempting to communicate with aliens telepathically or block thought processes, indicating a level of madness associated with conspiratorial obsession. You discredit the derogation and yourself by using it completely out of context.

I did note, with evidence, the general incompetence of our massive security infrastructure and discussed the implication that, even with the government constantly playing games with the Fourth Amendment, as well as the massive costs of all this security, it completely failed an investigation that should have been much easier than foreseeable ones might be.

As for being a "massive wall," I have no interest in the 96% of comments of 6 words or fewer with no substance and no detail. Mine was still pretty short, but I don't pander to low attention spans because anything beyond "Yea I know right lol" as a comment is taxing.

Yes, hindsight is alway 20-20 or better. That the police spoke to the older Tsarnaev brother and didn't do anything about him means that at the time they did not feel they had cause to detain or arrest him. You complain about 4th Amendment abuses but what would you say to the government taking people away based on circumstantial evidence or hunches? It's easy to second-guess, not so easy to know on the spot. And much of your post seemed to be concerned with the cost of the investigations. You could write to your elected representatives and ask for your money back, I suppose.

[Torisakia]

So, how are they going to execute this guy? Shooting, lethal injection, or a taste of his own medicene?

Or will they still try him?

[Ifreann]

So, how are they going to execute this guy? Shooting, lethal injection, or a taste of his own medicene?

Lethal injection, if at all.

Or will they still try him?

Of course they'll try him first.

[Farnhamia]

So, how are they going to execute this guy? Shooting, lethal injection, or a taste of his own medicene?

Or will they still try him?

He's a citizen of the United States. He gets a lawyer and a trial. And the death penalty is not an absolute certainty. Please lern2unitedstates.

[Oneracon]

I think this is some kind of record. Seriously, has any network ever been as systematically and magnificently wrong this many times on a single story in a single week?

CNN = Can't Negotiate the News

Yes. All of them. About this very story. This entire event was a monumental clusterfuck when it came to journalism.

It seems that the media are so pre-occupied with impressing each other being first with the story, they forget to try and impress the people actually watching by having actual facts.

[Ifreann]

So, how are they going to execute this guy? Shooting, lethal injection, or a taste of his own medicene?

Or will they still try him?

He's a citizen of the United States. He gets a lawyer and a trial. And the death penalty is not an absolute certainty. Please lern2unitedstates.

Even if he wasn't he'd still get those things. Though more people would complain about it, in that case.

[Farnhamia]

Yes. All of them. About this very story. This entire event was a monumental clusterfuck when it came to journalism.

It seems that the media are so pre-occupied with impressing each other being first with the story, they forget to try and impress the people actually watching by having actual facts.

I wouldn't say "impressing each other" but "scooping each other," really. And they expect us to be impressed, too. You have to admit, you would be impressed by a news outlet having accurate information well in advance of the others. The trouble is, in their zeal for getting out there first, which translates in to ad revenue and increased ratings and other delicious things, they go too far. It's really not uncommon and it certainly isn't a new phenomenon. What's new is the speed with which it happens, which is why CNN can be, as ASB said, so "systematically and magnificently wrong this many times on a single story in a single week." In the olden days, you know, like in the 20th century, newspapers had the luxury of a day or so to do a little research first. Of course, if they were out on the fringes, in the yellow area, they didn't much care.

[Farnhamia]

He's a citizen of the United States. He gets a lawyer and a trial. And the death penalty is not an absolute certainty. Please lern2unitedstates.

Even if he wasn't he'd still get those things. Though more people would complain about it, in that case.

This is true, I ought to have mentioned it.

[Oneracon]

Even if he wasn't he'd still get those things. Though more people would complain about it, in that case.

This is true, I ought to have mentioned it.

I've noticed that a lot of people on this thread forget about "innocent until proven guilty".

[Mkuki]

This is true, I ought to have mentioned it.

I've noticed that a lot of people on this thread forget about "innocent until proven guilty".

I often feel like people think "guilty until proven innocent".

[Farnhamia]

This is true, I ought to have mentioned it.

I've noticed that a lot of people on this thread forget about "innocent until proven guilty".

Outrage and horror will do that to you, and there's always the Internet Tough Guy factor to take into consideration.

[Ifreann]

Even if he wasn't he'd still get those things. Though more people would complain about it, in that case.

This is true, I ought to have mentioned it.

I don't care to check, but I'm sure that some people, somewhere on the internet, are demanding that Tsarnaev be de-citizened. Probably for the best to remind them that even if you could do that(and there's little chance you can), dude still gets a trial and lawyer and rights and what not, if only to see if their heads explode at the thought.

[Oneracon]

I've noticed that a lot of people on this thread forget about "innocent until proven guilty".

Outrage and horror will do that to you, and there's always the Internet Tough Guy factor to take into consideration.

Which is exactly why there are laws on this sort of thing. To prevent strong emotions from tampering with the fairness of the justice system.

[Mkuki]

Outrage and horror will do that to you, and there's always the Internet Tough Guy factor to take into consideration.

Which is exactly why there are laws on this sort of thing. To prevent strong emotions from tampering with the fairness of the justice system.

I think the Casey Anthony trial already proved this. And, from what I hear from those older than me, the OJ Simpson trial as well.

[Invarel]

No being read his Miranda rights. Rather a different thing, no?

Plus the Public Safety Exception has a short duration, about 24 hours or so after being invoked. After that they're required to read him the rights.

do you have a source for that? i can't find any information about how long they can delay miranda rights under the exception. closest i've found is:

"Eventually, it may become clear that no such threats exist (or at least any that Tsarnaev is capable of providing information about). At that point, he must be read his Miranda rights even under the most lax plausible understanding of the exemption. Additionally, if law enforcement wishes to ask Tsarnaev questions geared towards gathering evidence to use against him at trial, they must read him his Miranda rights." source

Edit: just read this too:

"“The Obama administration,” said Maddow, “has extended the reach of that public safety exemption, so it essentially can last longer to attend to the type of public safety threats that could accrue in terrorism cases.”" source

First step on the way to gitmo I guess... *sigh*

No Miranda rights

All this means is that anything he says under questioning will not be admissible in court. Nothing else.

not true. they can because they're using the public safety exception.

[Greed and Death]

So, how are they going to execute this guy? Shooting, lethal injection, or a taste of his own medicene?

Or will they still try him?

He's a citizen of the United States. He gets a lawyer and a trial. And the death penalty is not an absolute certainty. Please lern2unitedstates.

The federal government has not issued a death penalty since 2003, in the case of Jones, Louis, Jr.. Given this fits the terrorist type stuff that earns it like McVeigh.

[Invarel]

Seeing as you all are still on this miranda stuff I have alink that breaks it down.
http://www.volokh.com/2013/04/20/tsarna ... da-rights/
This is law professor Kerr, he is really good I met him once.

Here is the thing about the public safety exception in this case:
Can anyone point to a DOJ official actually announcing they were going to use this?
I mean, besides an "unnamed source" who "isn't authorized" to make such an announcement?
It seems to be a bunch of media speculation that they can or might use it. But no credible evidence that they actually were pursuing that course. Isn't it all just speculation at this point?

"Justice officials confirmed Saturday that the 19-year-old was not read his rights – included an entitlement to remain silent – after being cornered by police after a 22-hour manhunt in Watertown.

Massachusetts US attorney Carmen Ortiz said that "a public safety exception" applied in the case. Such an exemption would allow law enforcement agents to interrogate the suspect without warning and use any information extracted as evidence in courts." [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/20/boston-suspect-miranda-rights-activists]source[/url

NYT says "The Obama Administration," ABC says "U.S. officials," Washington Post says "Justice Official," WSJ says "federal law-enforcement official"

[Greed and Death]

All this means is that anything he says under questioning will not be admissible in court. Nothing else.

not true. they can because they're using the public safety exception.

We wont know until the trial court judge rules on if the court buys the public safety exception use or not.
Prosecutor presents evidence, Defense counsel motions to suppress, Prosecutor argues against the motion on public safety exception. Court issues a ruling.

[Invarel]

not true. they can because they're using the public safety exception.

We wont know until the trial court judge rules on if the court buys the public safety exception use or not.
Prosecutor presents evidence, Defense counsel motions to suppress, Prosecutor argues against the motion on public safety exception. Court issues a ruling.

not necessarily true* then

: D

[Torisakia]

So, how are they going to execute this guy? Shooting, lethal injection, or a taste of his own medicene?

Or will they still try him?

He's a citizen of the United States. He gets a lawyer and a trial. And the death penalty is not an absolute certainty. Please lern2unitedstates.

But, but...

[Greed and Death]

We wont know until the trial court judge rules on if the court buys the public safety exception use or not.
Prosecutor presents evidence, Defense counsel motions to suppress, Prosecutor argues against the motion on public safety exception. Court issues a ruling.

not necessarily true* then

: D

IT is very hard to not fit this into a public safety exception scenario. Defense counsel might not even bother to object it is so obviously going to be admitted. Also prosecution has him on video tape planting the bomb, among lots of other evidence, they really don't need a confession so they might not bring his statements in as evidence.

[Invarel]

but they can if they want (or they can at least try), unlike who i was responding to claimed

[Desperate Measures]

So, how are they going to execute this guy? Shooting, lethal injection, or a taste of his own medicene?

Or will they still try him?

Do you mean will the US gov't detonate him? No. They won't - they won't do that.

[The Orson Empire]

So, how are they going to execute this guy? Shooting, lethal injection, or a taste of his own medicene?

Or will they still try him?

He will get a fair trial like any criminal would. And I don't think we shoot people anymore as a form of execution.

[Greed and Death]

So, how are they going to execute this guy? Shooting, lethal injection, or a taste of his own medicene?

Or will they still try him?

He will get a fair trial like any criminal would. And I don't think we shoot people anymore as a form of execution.

Only in Utah at the request of the defendant.