Michigan considers $10 minimum wage

[Frisivisia]

So if unemployment is forced upward by higher minimum wages, shouldn't there be a strong correlation between minimum wage and unemployment?

These numbers are available.

http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/lab ... chart.aspx
http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

Regardless the principle is that minimum wage is an attack on freedom. Even if it doesn't equal higher unemployment it is wrong based on principle alone.

The minimum wage promotes freedom.

[Freiheit Reich]

The law says I am not allowed to take a job unless it pays above minimum wage. The law is the middleman in job offers.

Where?

Perhaps a company is willing to hire me for $5 an hour but not willing to hire me for $7 an hour (or whatever the minimum wage is).

And?

OK, I should have said 'the employer is forbidden from offering me a job which pays less than minimum wage.' I won't know about the potential job I lost because it was never even offered. The law was still a middleman between me and the job, I just didn't know it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_law

Minimum wage law is the body of law which prohibits employers from hiring employees or workers for less than a given hourly, daily or monthly minimum wage. More than 90% of all countries have some kind of minimum wage legislation.[1]

[Geilinor]

*cough*Bullshit*cough*
(Image)

Misleading chart is misleading.

Measuring the rate of growth of spending is something, certainly. All that really says, is that Obama has only increased spending modestly, after it was already sky high, from the Bush years.

This certainly qualifies Obama as a big spender.

Perhaps, but Bush increased spending more, which means he was worse. Obama's rate of spending increase is half that of Clinton's.

[Freiheit Reich]

Regardless the principle is that minimum wage is an attack on freedom. Even if it doesn't equal higher unemployment it is wrong based on principle alone.

The minimum wage promotes freedom.

How? It prevents me from working for a wage I believe to be fair. It also restricts companies from hiring people for a wage they believe is fair. Freedom is letting the market determine wages.

[Imperiatom]

Regardless the principle is that minimum wage is an attack on freedom. Even if it doesn't equal higher unemployment it is wrong based on principle alone.

The minimum wage promotes freedom.

Yes because last time a checked the definition of freedom and democracy did not include the word minimum wage.

That's what Churchill did, he fought the second world war over the right to a minimum wage.

[Imperiatom]

Misleading chart is misleading.

Measuring the rate of growth of spending is something, certainly. All that really says, is that Obama has only increased spending modestly, after it was already sky high, from the Bush years.

This certainly qualifies Obama as a big spender.

Perhaps, but Bush increased spending more, which means he was worse. Obama's rate of spending increase is half that of Clinton's.

He is still increasing it. That man is the worlds biggest spender.

[Norstal]

I've been to Singapore. You're right that no bums live there. Because only rich people live there. So a minimum wage would be absurd since everyone is making money overseas except for migrant workers.

There are poor people everywhere. The point was that the USA has a minimum but a bigger homeless problem, a higher unemployment rate, and a higher crime rate. If minimum wage is so great than the USA should have lower rates of all of these things.

Homeless people never begged for money from me in Singapore but they have done this in the USA. This even happened in smaller cities.

Well, I mean, yeah, cause you don't beg money from the elite, who they presume everyone who live there to be. You don't go to Warren Buffet's house and ask him "please sir, give me some money."

The real minimum wage is $0 per hour. Liberals would rather have somebody make $0 an hour instead of $5 per hour. Liberals tell people, 'I'm sorry, I can't let you take that job because it only pays $5 per hour even though you want it, you better keep looking until you can get one aying $7, $8, $10 (whatever minimum wage is) per hour.' Liberals are middlemen in the negotiation between employer and potential employee.

And all you right-wingers do is masturbate until the economy improves am I right?

[The Whispers]

The minimum wage promotes freedom.

How? It prevents me from working for a wage I believe to be fair.

Are you old enough to have to pay for anything real, or is this "I'll take $3 an hour if it means I can play CoD without asking my stupid dad for money" type talk?

[Freiheit Reich]

Misleading chart is misleading.

Measuring the rate of growth of spending is something, certainly. All that really says, is that Obama has only increased spending modestly, after it was already sky high, from the Bush years.

This certainly qualifies Obama as a big spender.

Perhaps, but Bush increased spending more, which means he was worse. Obama's rate of spending increase is half that of Clinton's.

Person 1: I raped 5 dogs
Person 2: I raped 10 dogs (100% increase in dogs raped)
Person 3: I raped 12 dogs (20% increase in dogs raped)

Does this mean person 3 is the better than person 2 because he only raped 20% more dogs?

We can use this same case with drinking whiskey, using heroin, etc. Total usage is more important that increase.

To be fair though we should adjust all total dollars to the same (etc. use 2012 dollars for all TOTAL spending, don't use marginal spending increases as a guide).

[Frisivisia]

The minimum wage promotes freedom.

Yes because last time a checked the definition of freedom and democracy did not include the word minimum wage.

That's what Churchill did, he fought the second world war over the right to a minimum wage.

Minimum wage makes wage slavery more difficult, and coupled with other regulations, impossible. Ending wage slavery increases freedom.

[Imperiatom]

There are poor people everywhere. The point was that the USA has a minimum but a bigger homeless problem, a higher unemployment rate, and a higher crime rate. If minimum wage is so great than the USA should have lower rates of all of these things.

Homeless people never begged for money from me in Singapore but they have done this in the USA. This even happened in smaller cities.

Well, I mean, yeah, cause you don't beg money from the elite, who they presume everyone who live there to be. You don't go to Warren Buffet's house and ask him "please sir, give me some money."

The real minimum wage is $0 per hour. Liberals would rather have somebody make $0 an hour instead of $5 per hour. Liberals tell people, 'I'm sorry, I can't let you take that job because it only pays $5 per hour even though you want it, you better keep looking until you can get one aying $7, $8, $10 (whatever minimum wage is) per hour.' Liberals are middlemen in the negotiation between employer and potential employee.

And all you right-wingers do is masturbate until the economy improves am I right?

No we pay for prostitutes to do it for us. Nothing like the division of labour .

[Mavorpen]

OK, I should have said 'the employer is forbidden from offering me a job which pays less than minimum wage.' I won't know about the potential job I lost because it was never even offered. The law was still a middleman between me and the job, I just didn't know it.

And this is bad why...? It's like whining about all of the puppies you COULD have adopted.

[Norstal]

The minimum wage promotes freedom.

How? It prevents me from working for a wage I believe to be fair. It also restricts companies from hiring people for a wage they believe is fair. Freedom is letting the market determine wages.

The state is part of the market.

I don't understand this stupidity. If all governments were to collapse overnight and anarchy ensues, I could still form a roving bandit that does what the government does and no one could even tell the difference.

If they didn't want a minimum wage, perhaps they should've had higher wages that makes everyone happy. Otherwise, well, I'll stick with my band of bandits.

[Yes Im Biop]

That 3 dollar extra will just be added to whatever they produce meaning that they make 3 dollars more, and cost inflates to match it.

[Frisivisia]

Perhaps, but Bush increased spending more, which means he was worse. Obama's rate of spending increase is half that of Clinton's.

Person 1: I raped 5 dogs
Person 2: I raped 10 dogs (100% increase in dogs raped)
Person 3: I raped 12 dogs (20% increase in dogs raped)

Does this mean person 3 is the better than person 2 because he only raped 20% more dogs?

We can use this same case with drinking whiskey, using heroin, etc. Total usage is more important that increase.

To be fair though we should adjust all total dollars to the same (etc. use 2012 dollars for all TOTAL spending, don't use marginal spending increases as a guide).

That analogy is neither flattering nor accurate.

[Imperiatom]

Yes because last time a checked the definition of freedom and democracy did not include the word minimum wage.

That's what Churchill did, he fought the second world war over the right to a minimum wage.

Minimum wage makes wage slavery more difficult, and coupled with other regulations, impossible. Ending wage slavery increases freedom.

Fuck off(my expression of exasperation) . That is the most ridiculous thing i have heard today. A minimum wage nether aids and abets wage slavery and nether does it determine if wage slavery is deemed impermissible(i mean stop it occurring). Even in my job i am a slave to my wage, when does this carte Blanche end?

[Benomia]

Seems reasonable.

[Freiheit Reich]

Yes because last time a checked the definition of freedom and democracy did not include the word minimum wage.

That's what Churchill did, he fought the second world war over the right to a minimum wage.

Minimum wage makes wage slavery more difficult, and coupled with other regulations, impossible. Ending wage slavery increases freedom.

Slavery is wrong. If I choose to work for $0 an hour it is not slavery. If I choose to work for $2 an hour, this is not slavery.

Slavery is forced work. FORCED is different than choice.

Singapore does not legalize slavery and they don't have minimum wage laws.

[Imperiatom]

Perhaps, but Bush increased spending more, which means he was worse. Obama's rate of spending increase is half that of Clinton's.

Person 1: I raped 5 dogs
Person 2: I raped 10 dogs (100% increase in dogs raped)
Person 3: I raped 12 dogs (20% increase in dogs raped)

Does this mean person 3 is the better than person 2 because he only raped 20% more dogs?

We can use this same case with drinking whiskey, using heroin, etc. Total usage is more important that increase.

To be fair though we should adjust all total dollars to the same (etc. use 2012 dollars for all TOTAL spending, don't use marginal spending increases as a guide).

Well said they might understand the argument now.

[The Whispers]

That 3 dollar extra will just be added to whatever they produce meaning that they make 3 dollars more, and cost inflates to match it.

This is making an assumption that a) everything people from Michigan buy is made by people in Michigan who are all working at the minimum wage in the first place, b) that consumers will put up with that increase, c) that no improvements in industrial capability are made, d) that raw material/transport etc. costs also rise at the same rate and that e) those in charge of setting prices put things up the amount that you think they will.

Plus probably some more things that I didn't even think of.

That is a lot of assumptions to make.

[Freiheit Reich]

How? It prevents me from working for a wage I believe to be fair.

Are you old enough to have to pay for anything real, or is this "I'll take $3 an hour if it means I can play CoD without asking my stupid dad for money" type talk?

People in Singapore pay their bills without minimum wage laws. They manage to live quite well.

[The Whispers]

Are you old enough to have to pay for anything real, or is this "I'll take $3 an hour if it means I can play CoD without asking my stupid dad for money" type talk?

People in Singapore pay their bills without minimum wage laws. They manage to live quite well.

Depends on the people, and you should probably answer my question.

[Imperiatom]

People in Singapore pay their bills without minimum wage laws. They manage to live quite well.

Depends on the people, and you should probably answer my question.

Its all about ARMA.

[Freiheit Reich]

OK, I should have said 'the employer is forbidden from offering me a job which pays less than minimum wage.' I won't know about the potential job I lost because it was never even offered. The law was still a middleman between me and the job, I just didn't know it.

And this is bad why...? It's like whining about all of the puppies you COULD have adopted.

I need a job and I was 'cockblocked' from it by some do-gooder minimum wage supporter. I am still unemployed because I lost the job opportunity. $0 an hour is less than $5 an hour. Nobody HAS to give me a minimum wage job, they can just say 'Forget it, I don't need an extra employee after all.'

[Disserbia]

If you ask me, raising wages on such a large scale would prove to be harmful.