Michigan considers $10 minimum wage

[New Rogernomics]

Actually welfare states function most effectively with low unemployment and become unsustinable with very high unemployment i.e. like is happening in Greece,etc. There are nations with zero or negliable unemployment, but there will always be periods of unemployment since we have state economics.

wat

I'm not disagreeing with the fact that welfare states require high employment for funding (that consumption requires production), but I don't see how that's a response to my joke at all.

I facetiously suggested that we could reduce unemployment (net consumption in a welfare state, btw) by killing the unemployed. Because employment is hyped up to be such a big deal by the media, this reduction in the unemployment statistic would save the economy. The joke is that employment doesn't really matter and that we should analyze economic health by production of consumer goods, capital accumulation, etc. (that shipping people overseas during WWII and digging and filling ditches in the Great Depression didn't solve anything because it only decreased unemployment, which you could just as easily do through mass murder).

Well eugenics is having a revival in a few countries, but I would agree somewhat that unemployment is overhyped (especially when increases in unemployment are externally influenced and uncontrollable).

[Agymnum]

No. I have a dart board with his picture on it, next to the Obama symbol with a hammer and sickle over it and my anarchist flag. All throughout the apartment. Fun to practice; I think I'm a good thrower with such incentive.

Obama is the biggest fucking capitalist ever. How you people think he is a socialist I do not understand.

Apparently anything to the left of complete deregulation is "socialist".

[The New Sea Territory]

No. I have a dart board with his picture on it, next to the Obama symbol with a hammer and sickle over it and my anarchist flag. All throughout the apartment. Fun to practice; I think I'm a good thrower with such incentive.

Obama is the biggest fucking capitalist ever. How you people think he is a socialist I do not understand.

I know that. He's actually a little too similar to the Reps. But I like to insult the current prez as much as possible. I had a Bush poster with the Hitlerstache....

[Frisivisia]

You don't even know how low taxes are hear do you?

In the US? Uh....40-50% for upper class. That's a shit ton of institutionalized theft.

The highest nominal tax rate in the US is 39%, but many dodge it by using the rather large loopholes that rightists in congress refuse to close.

Oh, and taxation is not theft, however edgy that sounds.

[Imperiatom]

An economic [system] can only support so much taxation and public spending.

Then gas the un(der)employed. We would have no labor problems then, I assume, and no welfare-warfare state to pay for.

Given that every news station tells me that the only two things that matter in an economy are employment and the stock market, we'd all be rich, right?

I would say inflation is the most important.

[Agymnum]

Obama is the biggest fucking capitalist ever. How you people think he is a socialist I do not understand.

I know that. He's actually a little too similar to the Reps. But I like to insult the current prez as much as possible. I had a Bush poster with the Hitlerstache....

This is why I can't take you seriously.

Insulting for the sake of insult is both childish and indicative of an immaturity that only time (hopefully) can solve.

[Sibirsky]

No. I'm not here to rank on how bad all the shit presidents we've had are. I'm here to talk about the Great Depression, which you acclaim was fixed by Comrade FDR. No. It was fixed by the massive demands of industry from WW2's escalation. That's what got women in the factories, and African Americans! They didn't go of to war! Same thing Hitler did to fix his unemployment: make a large army.

War is good for the economy because it's mass spending in a short amount of time. Which is, you know, good for the economy in the short term.

War is good for the military industrial complex.

Spending money to kill people and destroy property is not good for the economy.

[The New Sea Territory]

Obama is the biggest fucking capitalist ever. How you people think he is a socialist I do not understand.

Apparently anything to the left of complete deregulation is "socialist".

No. In the USA, true socialists are few and far between. I call them "American Socialists". The "America more like Europe" type? They "want" socialism yet don't truly understand it.

[Frisivisia]

That's the price of total war. However, the post-war period was incredibly prosperous because all of the GIs were home, educated, and with money and jobs created from the stimulation of the economy via the government.

Don't forget the destruction of the rest of the industrialized world. That sort of helps too.

War is bad. No one is saying it's good. Sometimes it's necessary, and it does have its uses, but war is bad.

[Welstonia (Ancient)]

It works sooo well in Germany doesn't it?

What do you mean by this?

Germany is one of the only modern states without a minimum wage, they do however have trade unions with reasonable amounts of power, I wasn't calling you a Nazi if you took it that way.

[Imperiatom]

Thirded. Zero unemployment! (In theory)

Yeah, cause you could essentially enslave people.

No just pay them in perks like bread and water!

[The New Sea Territory]

I know that. He's actually a little too similar to the Reps. But I like to insult the current prez as much as possible. I had a Bush poster with the Hitlerstache....

This is why I can't take you seriously.

Insulting for the sake of insult is both childish and indicative of an immaturity that only time (hopefully) can solve.

I don't "insult for the sake of it". I do truly dislike their politics. Again, I'm an anarchist.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Don't forget the destruction of the rest of the industrialized world. That sort of helps too.

War is bad. No one is saying it's good. Sometimes it's necessary, and it does have its uses, but war is bad.

Economic stimulation is not one of those uses.

[Welstonia (Ancient)]

You don't even know how low taxes are hear do you?

In the US? Uh....40-50% for upper class. That's a shit ton of institutionalized theft.

It's actually about 30 some percent, but most pay less, and capital gains is far far lower. The massive incomes those people get is the institutionalized theft.

[The New Sea Territory]

War is bad. No one is saying it's good. Sometimes it's necessary, and it does have its uses, but war is bad.

Economic stimulation is not one of those uses.

I thought it was Biden that disliked the war in the Middle East?

[Frisivisia]

War is good for the economy because it's mass spending in a short amount of time. Which is, you know, good for the economy in the short term.

War is good for the military industrial complex.

Spending money to kill people and destroy property is not good for the economy.

It's good stimulus. Destruction of property is bad for the economy, but the mass spending is good.

[Frisivisia]

War is bad. No one is saying it's good. Sometimes it's necessary, and it does have its uses, but war is bad.

Economic stimulation is not one of those uses.

Of course not. That's a by-product. You can't deny that war is sometimes necessary, however.

[Agymnum]

War is bad. No one is saying it's good. Sometimes it's necessary, and it does have its uses, but war is bad.

Economic stimulation is not one of those uses.

He was dragged into the war by Japan attacking US interests in the Pacific, not to mention the fact that Hitler was carving up Europe (and the US had heavily invested in the Allies via cash-and-carry and lend-lease, so they needed Britain to win).

Economic stimulus, solving unemployment, and industrial recovery sweetened the deal.

[The New Sea Territory]

In the US? Uh....40-50% for upper class. That's a shit ton of institutionalized theft.

It's actually about 30 some percent, but most pay less, and capital gains is far far lower. The massive incomes those people get is the institutionalized theft.

No. Fuck No. No No No.

My Family members pay 40-45%. I know that for a FACT. This is what is wrong: People don't understand that just taxing the rich won't work because we are taking half of their income.

[New Rogernomics]

You don't even know how low taxes are hear do you?

In the US? Uh....40-50% for upper class. That's a shit ton of institutionalized theft.

Well inequality doesn't matter so much, so long as the middle class increases wealth gradually and lower classes remain small. It is all relative though, the incomes of the middle class in America would be the upper class for many developing countries.

[Frisivisia]

Economic stimulation is not one of those uses.

I thought it was Biden that disliked the war in the Middle East?

Of course. Those wars were needless and unpaid for, which resulted in bad-ness for the economy.

[Norstal]

War is bad. No one is saying it's good. Sometimes it's necessary, and it does have its uses, but war is bad.

Economic stimulation is not one of those uses.

See, I don't think that was anyone's argument.

If you Libertarians would just stop using threadjacks as a method of argument, you'd see that Agy was trying to argue that the New Deal helped. It was the Libertarian who argued that WW2 stimulated the economy. To which you Libertarians argue that WW2 is bad.

Which is stupid stupid stupid.

[Welstonia (Ancient)]

Apparently anything to the left of complete deregulation is "socialist".

No. In the USA, true socialists are few and far between. I call them "American Socialists". The "America more like Europe" type? They "want" socialism yet don't truly understand it.

I don't think you understand what Socialism is. Anyway, you never answered my question, if liberty is what you are promoting, and social and economic liberty both important, than you do support gay marriage and legal drugs right?

[Frisivisia]

It's actually about 30 some percent, but most pay less, and capital gains is far far lower. The massive incomes those people get is the institutionalized theft.

No. Fuck No. No No No.

My Family members pay 40-45%. I know that for a FACT. This is what is wrong: People don't understand that just taxing the rich won't work because we are taking half of their income.

Total taxes, which includes federal, state, and local. And still allows you to keep a shitton of money considering the good that the government has done for you.

[The New Sea Territory]

Economic stimulation is not one of those uses.

See, I don't think that was anyone's argument.

If you Libertarians would just stop using threadjacks as a method of argument, you'd see that Agy was trying to argue that the New Deal helped. It was the Libertarian who argued that WW2 stimulated the economy. To which you Libertarians argue that WW2 is bad.

Which is stupid stupid stupid.

Ugh........

War is bad. If we had a libertarian state at the time, we could have been fine. But look at FDR's predecessors....Jesus. Terrible. And, take it further: Their would be no "collapse" if their was anarchy, or no taxes. People would have plenty of money.