Michigan considers $10 minimum wage

[Agymnum]

So public works like the TVA and the construction of hospitals, schools, and airports are "nothing productive".

Please, tell me more about how you are SO knowledgeable about the New Deal.

Constructions that did nothing to big. Seriously, they were filler jobs. They just paid people little money for meaningless jobs doing labor. They didn't stimulate anything. WW2 did the stimulating.

The Tennessee Valley Authority didn't do anything big, right?

It's not like it brought electricity to rural areas, where power companies were too greedy to expand into, right?

Clearly all the New Deal programs were useless piles of trash. /sarcasm

[Frisivisia]

Because fuck protecting workers, am I right?

Minimum wage does not protect workers, it is an illusion spewed by the left to to make you think you are better off.

The Gilded Age was great for workers, but the liberal media spews its lies.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Draft everyone into the army! It'll solve the employment crisis and give everyone disposable income and basic necessities!

An economic [system] can only support so much taxation and public spending.

I was being sarcastic.

I thought that'd be obvious but...This IS NSG, I'm sure someone has said something like that entirely seriously so I'll take the blame on this one.

[The New Sea Territory]

F-ck No.

I'll sign up to fight for real liberty, thank you.

So all those men who fought in WWII weren't fighting for "real liberty"?

Gee whiz, you sure seem like a bright young fella.

Nope. They were fighting for a socialist-leaning president acclaimed by Eleanor Roosevelt to be deserving of dictatorial power. FDR was THE MOST authoritarian president we have ever had, and he made a mockery of the entire reason this country was founded. I'm clearly brighter than some here if I can spot that authoritarianism does NOT, and NEVER HAS equated to "true liberty". Where is the freedom? All I see is equalization of poverty,

[Agymnum]

Minimum wage does not protect workers, it is an illusion spewed by the left to to make you think you are better off.

The Gilded Age was great for workers, but the liberal media spews its lies.

Clearly we should go back to deregulated business.

Doesn't everyone miss the days of the Pinkertons and Standard Oil?

[New Rogernomics]

It's more or less the same here across the pond, except there are not real left wing parties, and nobody will talk about the wealth divide because it's considered un-American or something. You have no idea how utterly stupid at-least half of my country men are.
Also, the temporary welfare state has been all but wiped out, leaving mainly disability which is meant to be a permanent solution to attempt to take care of the masses. That is actually Clinton's fault.

Higher taxes are the reason it has become worse here, Has made it more attractive to evade tax by legal means for the rich. Our current government is doing their best with increasing the income tax threshold and reducing the top rate, and business rates. My fear is one, given the state of the world economy it is too late. And two those socialists will get back in power make tax avoidance more attractive again, and stealth tax the fuck out of the bottom 75% of earners as they don't have the means of protecting their money as the rich can. ( free advice for anyone listening, never invest in France as they tax all foreign investments)

Well Australasia has a flat tax structure, higher corporate taxation, a vat like tax, and lower healthcare costs. America and the UK pay far more in tax, with no real benefit.

[Cannot think of a name]

Numbers? Proofs?

http://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/njmin-aer.pdf
http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/5412

Enough? Want more? I have more.

You can't use studies and actual data...they have anecdotes, theories, and hypothetical stories!

[Imperiatom]

*cough* They both have a much lower tax burden than the UK, Work that one out?

Well the free market model (the uncorrupted one) has no taxation, tarrifs or monopolies (so no government or corporate entities); today it is just hybrid systems fighting it out.

I am just saying its not how much one taxes that decides social equality but also how that money is spent. Here in the UK we are spending it in the wrong way as is the US. In Oceania they are spending a lesser amount far more wisely.

[The New Sea Territory]

Constructions that did nothing to big. Seriously, they were filler jobs. They just paid people little money for meaningless jobs doing labor. They didn't stimulate anything. WW2 did the stimulating.

The Tennessee Valley Authority didn't do anything big, right?

It's not like it brought electricity to rural areas, where power companies were too greedy to expand into, right?

Clearly all the New Deal programs were useless piles of trash. /sarcasm

They were useless. Had they simply gotten involved in WW2 quicker, the economy would have skyrocketed.

[Frisivisia]

So all those men who fought in WWII weren't fighting for "real liberty"?

Gee whiz, you sure seem like a bright young fella.

Nope. They were fighting for a socialist-leaning president acclaimed by Eleanor Roosevelt to be deserving of dictatorial power. FDR was THE MOST authoritarian president we have ever had, and he made a mockery of the entire reason this country was founded. I'm clearly brighter than some here if I can spot that authoritarianism does NOT, and NEVER HAS equated to "true liberty". Where is the freedom? All I see is equalization of poverty,

I dunno, Andrew Jackson and Ronald Reagan were pretty damn Authoritarian. And FDR was, you know, not.

[Shallowell]

The ideal minimum wage is $0.

I second that!

Thirded. Zero unemployment! (In theory)

[Frisivisia]

The Tennessee Valley Authority didn't do anything big, right?

It's not like it brought electricity to rural areas, where power companies were too greedy to expand into, right?

Clearly all the New Deal programs were useless piles of trash. /sarcasm

They were useless. Had they simply gotten involved in WW2 quicker, the economy would have skyrocketed.

Getting involved in WWII earlier would have had catastrophic implications.

[Agymnum]

So all those men who fought in WWII weren't fighting for "real liberty"?

Gee whiz, you sure seem like a bright young fella.

Nope. They were fighting for a socialist-leaning president acclaimed by Eleanor Roosevelt to be deserving of dictatorial power. FDR was THE MOST authoritarian president we have ever had, and he made a mockery of the entire reason this country was founded. I'm clearly brighter than some here if I can spot that authoritarianism does NOT, and NEVER HAS equated to "true liberty". Where is the freedom? All I see is equalization of poverty,

I have nothing to say to this statement.

FDR expanded opportunities for African Americans in the New Deal, he employed women in the executive branch, he lowered unemployment, and he successfully orchestrated America's victorious homefront.

If you believe him to be a mockery of this nation, your intellect must be on-par with chimpanzees*.

*Apologies to all chimps in advance

[Frisivisia]

I second that!

Thirded. Zero unemployment! (In theory)

The key words being "in theory".

[The New Sea Territory]

Nope. They were fighting for a socialist-leaning president acclaimed by Eleanor Roosevelt to be deserving of dictatorial power. FDR was THE MOST authoritarian president we have ever had, and he made a mockery of the entire reason this country was founded. I'm clearly brighter than some here if I can spot that authoritarianism does NOT, and NEVER HAS equated to "true liberty". Where is the freedom? All I see is equalization of poverty,

I dunno, Andrew Jackson and Ronald Reagan were pretty damn Authoritarian. And FDR was, you know, not.

I never said they weren't authoritarian. That's not the topic. Who's the strawman now?

And how is the New Deal not authoritarian? Anyone who says that...is...wha? That's doesn't even sound right to say. FDR was flaming with the authoritarianism.

[Frisivisia]

http://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/njmin-aer.pdf
http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/5412

Enough? Want more? I have more.

You can't use studies and actual data...they have anecdotes, theories, and hypothetical stories!

I need to keep repeating this data every once in a while, because "in theory" is not the same as "in practice".

[Frisivisia]

I dunno, Andrew Jackson and Ronald Reagan were pretty damn Authoritarian. And FDR was, you know, not.

I never said they weren't authoritarian. That's not the topic. Who's the strawman now?

And how is the New Deal not authoritarian? Anyone who says that...is...wha? That's doesn't even sound right to say. FDR was flaming with the authoritarianism.

Um... wut?

[Agymnum]

Nope. They were fighting for a socialist-leaning president acclaimed by Eleanor Roosevelt to be deserving of dictatorial power. FDR was THE MOST authoritarian president we have ever had, and he made a mockery of the entire reason this country was founded. I'm clearly brighter than some here if I can spot that authoritarianism does NOT, and NEVER HAS equated to "true liberty". Where is the freedom? All I see is equalization of poverty,

I dunno, Andrew Jackson and Ronald Reagan were pretty damn Authoritarian. And FDR was, you know, not.

I'm seeing this trend. Anything progressive MUST be authoritarian, and anything conservative must not be.

Examples of "authoritarians": TR, FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Clinton

Examples of "freedom-loving GODDAMN PATRIOTS": Jackson, Reagan, Bush, Bush Jr.

[Imperiatom]

What did WWII do?

Increase government spending.

What did the New Deal do?

Increase government spending.

Why did one work and the other didn't?

Because we spent a SHITLOAD more money on WWII than we did on the New Deal.

The principle is sound.

Ha. No.

Here's what happened: No one had jobs. War happened. Sudden need for jobs fixes unemployment. Simple.

Don't say that, those socialist will now become social jingoists and demand a world war so they can achieve their treasured aim of full employment.

[Frisivisia]

I dunno, Andrew Jackson and Ronald Reagan were pretty damn Authoritarian. And FDR was, you know, not.

I'm seeing this trend. Anything progressive MUST be authoritarian, and anything conservative must not be.

Examples of "authoritarians": TR, FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Clinton

Examples of "freedom-loving GODDAMN PATRIOTS": Jackson, Reagan, Bush, Bush Jr.

I still think that Wallace would have been better than Truman. Wallace was the real fucking deal.

[Shallowell]

Thirded. Zero unemployment! (In theory)

The key words being "in theory".

Let me rephrase myself: the minimum absolute amount of unemployment possible, caused only by frictional unemployment. In a perfect market situation. Which we should have.

[The New Sea Territory]

Nope. They were fighting for a socialist-leaning president acclaimed by Eleanor Roosevelt to be deserving of dictatorial power. FDR was THE MOST authoritarian president we have ever had, and he made a mockery of the entire reason this country was founded. I'm clearly brighter than some here if I can spot that authoritarianism does NOT, and NEVER HAS equated to "true liberty". Where is the freedom? All I see is equalization of poverty,

I have nothing to say to this statement.

FDR expanded opportunities for African Americans in the New Deal, he employed women in the executive branch, he lowered unemployment, and he successfully orchestrated America's victorious homefront.

If you believe him to be a mockery of this nation, your intellect must be on-par with chimpanzees*.

*Apologies to all chimps in advance

The USA wasn't founded for the "Happy Happy Welfare Socialist States". It was founded on the ideas of Liberalism. NOT Social Liberalism. Just plain liberty. FDR took the private sector and broke it over his knee, and ran for president three times. He broke the whole "let's not have kings" thing Washington came up with. I consider him a horrible leader compared to just about anyone other than his fellow authoritarian contemporaries.

[Agymnum]

I'm seeing this trend. Anything progressive MUST be authoritarian, and anything conservative must not be.

Examples of "authoritarians": TR, FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Clinton

Examples of "freedom-loving GODDAMN PATRIOTS": Jackson, Reagan, Bush, Bush Jr.

I still think that Wallace would have been better than Truman. Wallace was the real fucking deal.

True, but Truman had his fair share of good ideas. It's a shame the Fair Deal never fully went through.

Wallace was doomed from the start, though. It's a shame politics makes switching presidents in the middle of a term suicide, because I would've liked to see Truman step down and Wallace take the reigns.

[Augarundus]

Draft everyone into the army! It'll solve the employment crisis and give everyone disposable income and basic necessities!

An economic [system] can only support so much taxation and public spending.

Then gas the un(der)employed. We would have no labor problems then, I assume, and no welfare-warfare state to pay for.

Given that every news station tells me that the only two things that matter in an economy are employment and the stock market, we'd all be rich, right?

[Welstonia (Ancient)]

I second that!

Thirded. Zero unemployment! (In theory)

Yeah, cause you could essentially enslave people.