Michigan considers $10 minimum wage

[Agymnum]

About damn time the forgotten worker gets his dues. Good on you, Michigan!

Yeah! Good on you that the economic state of America is ONCE AGAIN f-cking itself! Good on you that all small businesses will be thrown out the window! Good on you that socialism creates what it seeks to destroy: serious income inequality! Good on your for corporate partnering! Good on you for ignoring all economics in favor of equality! Good on you for hatred of rich people!

It's too much to ask for workers to get $3.00 more?

Really? Is this what we're down to?

If leftists such as myself had our way, we'd force a $15 - $25 minimum wage and you'd deal with it. Be glad $10 is all they're asking for.

[Welstonia (Ancient)]

About damn time the forgotten worker gets his dues. Good on you, Michigan!

Yeah! Good on you that the economic state of America is ONCE AGAIN f-cking itself! Good on you that all small businesses will be thrown out the window! Good on you that socialism creates what it seeks to destroy: serious income inequality! Good on your for corporate partnering! Good on you for ignoring all economics in favor of equality! Good on you for hatred of rich people!

Yeah, that's why states like Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Iceland have such a low standard of living and such high income inequality.

[Frisivisia]

Yeah, just like how the economy crashed when FDR took office. Oh wait. But then again, the economy crashed as leftists Truman, Eisenhower, and JFK remained in office. Oh wait.

FDR would never have gotten this country on it's feet. Only WW2 did that, and he never wanted to fight until Japan attacked us. So, in an akward way, we should thank imperialists...for attacking us.

It still proves that massive deficit spending is good for the economy in the short run, offset by tax increases in long run. Plus, there was the whole New Deal thing.

[New Rogernomics]

This is what happens when you let a leftist control any economic position. Disaster. He needs to learn to enjoy a good thing, and not get too hands on...

Yeah, just like how the economy crashed when FDR took office. Oh wait. But then again, the economy crashed as leftists Truman, Eisenhower, and JFK remained in office. Oh wait.

Better yet don't think in terms of 'left' or 'right' and instead in terms of what works, in fact a lot of economics in Europe is bashed as 'socialist' when in reality it was quasi fascist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirigisme

Economic dirigisme has been described as an inherent aspect of fascist economies by one author, Ivan T. Berend in his book An Economic History of Twentieth-Century Europe.[1] However, the Fascist systems created by Benito Mussolini (Italy), Francisco Franco (Spain) and Adolf Hitler (Germany) are a varied mix of elements from numerous philosophies, including: nationalism, authoritarianism, militarism, corporatism, collectivism, totalitarianism, and anti-communism.[2]

[Agymnum]

Yeah, just like how the economy crashed when FDR took office. Oh wait. But then again, the economy crashed as leftists Truman, Eisenhower, and JFK remained in office. Oh wait.

FDR would never have gotten this country on it's feet. Only WW2 did that, and he never wanted to fight until Japan attacked us. So, in an akward way, we should thank imperialists...for attacking us.

What did WWII do?

Increase government spending.

What did the New Deal do?

Increase government spending.

Why did one work and the other didn't?

Because we spent a SHITLOAD more money on WWII than we did on the New Deal.

The principle is sound.

[The New Sea Territory]

Yeah! Good on you that the economic state of America is ONCE AGAIN f-cking itself! Good on you that all small businesses will be thrown out the window! Good on you that socialism creates what it seeks to destroy: serious income inequality! Good on your for corporate partnering! Good on you for ignoring all economics in favor of equality! Good on you for hatred of rich people!

Good on you for creating strawmen!

So what your saving is you have no politicac-economic comback and just say strawman? The strawman thing is just a way to get out of an argument you lost. Accept it. You lost. Economics dictates that raising the minimum wage simply hurts everyone in the long run, because that money will soon be worth less, bringing you back to the original problem.

[Frisivisia]

FDR would never have gotten this country on it's feet. Only WW2 did that, and he never wanted to fight until Japan attacked us. So, in an akward way, we should thank imperialists...for attacking us.

What did WWII do?

Increase government spending.

What did the New Deal do?

Increase government spending.

Why did one work and the other didn't?

Because we spent a SHITLOAD more money on WWII than we did on the New Deal.

The principle is sound.

The New Deal actually did do a lot for the economy.

[Shallowell]

This will increase unemployment. Fact.

I'd rather have a low paying job than no job at all.

[Welstonia (Ancient)]

Yeah, just like how the economy crashed when FDR took office. Oh wait. But then again, the economy crashed as leftists Truman, Eisenhower, and JFK remained in office. Oh wait.

FDR would never have gotten this country on it's feet. Only WW2 did that, and he never wanted to fight until Japan attacked us. So, in an akward way, we should thank imperialists...for attacking us.

Actually things were starting to improve well before we got involved in WW2

[Frisivisia]

Good on you for creating strawmen!

So what your saving is you have no politicac-economic comback and just say strawman? The strawman thing is just a way to get out of an argument you lost. Accept it. You lost. Economics dictates that raising the minimum wage simply hurts everyone in the long run, because that money will soon be worth less, bringing you back to the original problem.

So you admit you don't understand arguing and logical fallacies OR economics? Good on you.

[The New Sea Territory]

FDR would never have gotten this country on it's feet. Only WW2 did that, and he never wanted to fight until Japan attacked us. So, in an akward way, we should thank imperialists...for attacking us.

What did WWII do?

Increase government spending.

What did the New Deal do?

Increase government spending.

Why did one work and the other didn't?

Because we spent a SHITLOAD more money on WWII than we did on the New Deal.

The principle is sound.

Ha. No.

Here's what happened: No one had jobs. War happened. Sudden need for jobs fixes unemployment. Simple.

[Agymnum]

What did WWII do?

Increase government spending.

What did the New Deal do?

Increase government spending.

Why did one work and the other didn't?

Because we spent a SHITLOAD more money on WWII than we did on the New Deal.

The principle is sound.

The New Deal actually did do a lot for the economy.

It didn't solve the Great Depression, though.

It did alleviate the high unemployment rates and did improve the economy, but really WWII was what was needed to solve the Depression. Mr. New Deal simply wasn't large enough in scope (and no one was willing to make it large enough in scope) to solve the depression. Mr. Win the War, however...

[Frisivisia]

What did WWII do?

Increase government spending.

What did the New Deal do?

Increase government spending.

Why did one work and the other didn't?

Because we spent a SHITLOAD more money on WWII than we did on the New Deal.

The principle is sound.

Ha. No.

Here's what happened: No one had jobs. War happened. Sudden need for jobs fixes unemployment. Simple.

Spending is equivalent to jobs when done right.

[The New Sea Territory]

FDR would never have gotten this country on it's feet. Only WW2 did that, and he never wanted to fight until Japan attacked us. So, in an akward way, we should thank imperialists...for attacking us.

Actually things were starting to improve well before we got involved in WW2

For who exactly? "Improve" as in, he started welfare programs? No. Nothing was "improving". That was just shouted towards people to make them feel things were improving, but they weren'y until the war actually demanded all these jobs people had lost.

[Agymnum]

Ha. No.

Here's what happened: No one had jobs. War happened. Sudden need for jobs fixes unemployment. Simple.

You're clearly uneducated about what the New Deal did:

Give people jobs. It paid people to work in public works, commissioned artists to do art, paid writers to write, and so on.

The idea that the New Deal was somehow dole-out is bullshit. It was a works-based economics program which saved Capitalism in this country.

[Frisivisia]

This will increase unemployment. Fact.

I'd ratet have a low paying job than no job at all.

Maybe in theory, but empirical evidence shows that higher minimum wages do not increase unemployment and may very well lower unemployment.

[Welstonia (Ancient)]

What did WWII do?

Increase government spending.

What did the New Deal do?

Increase government spending.

Why did one work and the other didn't?

Because we spent a SHITLOAD more money on WWII than we did on the New Deal.

The principle is sound.

Ha. No.

Here's what happened: No one had jobs. War happened. Sudden need for jobs fixes unemployment. Simple.

Again, things were not perfect, but they were improving before WW2 happened. At the very least fewer people were starving and more were working.

[Augarundus]

Here's what happened: No one had jobs. War happened. Sudden need for jobs fixes unemployment. Simple.

Interestingly enough, dying in combat, death by firing squad, and Bubonic plague also all seems to have positive effects on unemployment.

[Sibirsky]

The ideal minimum wage is $0.

Because fuck protecting workers, am I right?

You're not protecting anyone. You are making these people's lives worse.

Nobody wants to work for $7/hour. Nobody wants to work for $2/day in Cambodia either. These people choose to do this. Sometimes life gives you shit choices, and these people were not given the choice of driving a bank into the ground and getting bailed out while getting an eight figure bonus at taxpayer expense. The fact they choose to do so, tells us that it is what they feel the best of available choices is.

How do you figure limiting these people's choices further will improve the situation? Sure, some of them get raises. And some of them will lose their jobs. They will lose their best, of not so great choices.

We should instead try and expand these people's choices.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct1Moeaa-W8

[Agymnum]

This will increase unemployment. Fact.

I'd ratet have a low paying job than no job at all.

Maybe in theory, but empirical evidence shows that higher minimum wages do not increase unemployment and may very well lower unemployment.

And having a low paying job, while better than no job, is still pretty much shit if you have to work an 80 hour week to afford a two-room apartment.

Just saying.

[Occeania]

Abolish income taxys and you would not have this issue.


This is a trick to cause inflation.

[Occupied Deutschland]

What did WWII do?

Increase government spending.

What did the New Deal do?

Increase government spending.

Why did one work and the other didn't?

Because we spent a SHITLOAD more money on WWII than we did on the New Deal.

The principle is sound.

The New Deal actually did do a lot for the economy.

Yes. It dumped milk down the drain, burned farmland, and killed and left cows to rot whilst the poor waited in lines at soup kitchens.

[Shallowell]

This will increase unemployment. Fact.

I'd ratet have a low paying job than no job at all.

Maybe in theory, but empirical evidence shows that higher minimum wages do not increase unemployment and may very well lower unemployment.

Numbers? Proofs?

[The New Sea Territory]

The New Deal actually did do a lot for the economy.

It didn't solve the Great Depression, though.

It did alleviate the high unemployment rates and did improve the economy, but really WWII was what was needed to solve the Depression. Mr. New Deal simply wasn't large enough in scope (and no one was willing to make it large enough in scope) to solve the depression. Mr. Win the War, however...

The difference between the New Deal and WW2 is one was a government plan and one was a actual conflict that spontaneously created jobs.

[Welstonia (Ancient)]

Actually things were starting to improve well before we got involved in WW2

For who exactly? "Improve" as in, he started welfare programs? No. Nothing was "improving". That was just shouted towards people to make them feel things were improving, but they weren'y until the war actually demanded all these jobs people had lost.

More people were working, less people were starving. I call that improvement.