Michigan considers $10 minimum wage

[Frisivisia]

Brilliant. Well done Michigan!

It's not going to get past the massive Republican cockblock.

[Freiheit Reich]

We are being hypothetical. I would not require paperwork if you want to rent out rooms in your house. Tenement housing would be allowed. You can choose to live in crappy housing if you want. Fire safety is an issue but again, people make choices. Poor people have less choices but the govt. should not be the nanny in telling them a place is not safe enough for them.

And without out it slumlords will run rampant. It already happens with the regulations that exist, and with reduced restrictions it would be an even larger problem.

Your industry sounds hard to get a job. How many fast food jobs did you apply at? What about warehousing, cashier, fruit picking, etc.? My guess is like many Americans you did not want to apply for low wage jobs even though they are easier to get.

Last year was a particularly rough year in the industry for various reasons. Generally finding a job in the field is not difficult when one has 7 years of experience. Problem was I competing for entry-level positions in some cases with people who had 20 years experience and leadership positions due to how much of a pounding the economy took on the industry.

And you assume completely wrong. As I said, I applied to damn near everything I could think of. Including fast-food/retail.

Slumlords are fine. As long as they follow the contract they made their leasee sign. They can't raise rents unless allowed by the contract for example. If I agree to pay $250 a month for a crappy apartment where 5 families share 1 toilet than that is my choice. Slumlords provide people with cheaper housing and can be helpful to poor families. Don't like it, than don't move there. Or, move to a nicer place once you can do it financially.

Then why was I able to find a job much faster when my experience was not great and many companies are anti-military in their hiring. I admit getting a govt. job is impossible, I have given up on that idea. Luckily I got the job in Iraq.

Oh, do you have a degree? If so you can get an ESL job in China, South Korea, or Thailand quite easily. Anybody with a 4 year degree has no excuse for being unemployed unless they are mentally ill or have serious medical issues. Some of these jobs will arrange visas for spouses and children as well. I am unsure if you can send your kids to local schools or not though (but homeschooling is possible).

I remember a lady with a teaching degree saying she couldn't find a job and had student loans. I wondered why she was not working in Saudi Arabia (which pays great wages) or at least Taiwan or South Korea (which pay fair wages). You have to move where the jobs are. This is why I don't feel sorry for the Appalachian poor. Why didn't they move to where the jobs are? They are stubborn and refuse to leave an area that will be poor for many more years.

[Freiheit Reich]

Brilliant. Well done Michigan!

Yes, well done! I am happy that this state will lose more jobs, maybe some of those jobs can go to states that are better to live in and more business friendly such as Texas, South Dakota, and Oklahoma. Michigan doesn't deserve businesses until they become more business friendly.

I hope when more people are unemployed and poor in Michigan the politicians decide to raise the minimum wage even higher to $12 an hour to "help" the people even more.

[Frisivisia]

Brilliant. Well done Michigan!

Yes, well done! I am happy that this state will lose more jobs, maybe some of those jobs can go to states that are better to live in and more business friendly such as Texas, South Dakota, and Oklahoma. Michigan doesn't deserve businesses until they become more business friendly.

I hope when more people are unemployed and poor in Michigan the politicians decide to raise the minimum wage even higher to $12 an hour to "help" the people even more.

Your whole "higher minimum wage causes unemployment" thing is bullshit.

http://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/njmin-aer.pdf

http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/5412

http://www.epi.org/publication/statement-epi-minimum-wage/

Oh shit, I even have facts! And you don't!

[OMGeverynameistaken]

Brilliant. Well done Michigan!

Yes, well done! I am happy that this state will lose more jobs, maybe some of those jobs can go to states that are better to live in and more business friendly such as Texas, South Dakota, and Oklahoma. Michigan doesn't deserve businesses until they become more business friendly.

I hope when more people are unemployed and poor in Michigan the politicians decide to raise the minimum wage even higher to $12 an hour to "help" the people even more.

Top 10 highest minimum wages in the US, according to Wikipedia:
1. Washington (9.19)
2. Oregon (8.95)
3. Vermont (8.60)
4. Connecticut (8.25)
5. Illinois (8.25)
6. Nevada (8.25)
7. Massachusetts (8.00)
8. California (8.00)
9. Ohio (7.85)
10. Arizona (7.80)

Top 10 highest unemployment rates in the US, according to same:
1. Nevada (9.7)
2. Illinois (9.5)
3. California (9.4)
4. Mississippi (9.4)
5. North Carolina (9.2)
6. Rhode Island (9.1)
7. New Jersey (9.0)
8. Indiana (8.7)
9. Washington DC (8.5)
10. Michigan (8.5)

Washington, with its nearly $10 minimum wage, is actually below the US national average of %7.6.

[Freiheit Reich]

Yes, well done! I am happy that this state will lose more jobs, maybe some of those jobs can go to states that are better to live in and more business friendly such as Texas, South Dakota, and Oklahoma. Michigan doesn't deserve businesses until they become more business friendly.

I hope when more people are unemployed and poor in Michigan the politicians decide to raise the minimum wage even higher to $12 an hour to "help" the people even more.

Top 10 highest minimum wages in the US, according to Wikipedia:
1. Washington (9.19)
2. Oregon (8.95)
3. Vermont (8.60)
4. Connecticut (8.25)
5. Illinois (8.25)
6. Nevada (8.25)
7. Massachusetts (8.00)
8. California (8.00)
9. Ohio (7.85)
10. Arizona (7.80)

Top 10 highest unemployment rates in the US, according to same:
1. Nevada (9.7)
2. Illinois (9.5)
3. California (9.4)
4. Mississippi (9.4)
5. North Carolina (9.2)
6. Rhode Island (9.1)
7. New Jersey (9.0)
8. Indiana (8.7)
9. Washington DC (8.5)
10. Michigan (8.5)

Washington, with its nearly $10 minimum wage, is actually below the US national average of %7.6.

Other factors are needed to be considered. Minimum wage is one factor.

Washington has no state taxes.

Washington has a higher educated population (which can attract more jobs)

Washington attracts highly qualified foreigners who often start businesses. These foreigners look at Washington's quality of life (scenery and weather) and high immigrant population and choose to settle there. Not many Asian immigrants want to go to South Dakota because there are not many other Asians there. It makes sense wanting to be at a place you feel comfortable.

It also depends on the jobs. If a factory has a bunch of workers making $8 an hour than the minimum wage hike affects them a lot. If the factory has workers making $15 an hour than the rate hike means nothing to them. I am guessing Boeing pays more than $10 an hour on average.

[Ensiferum]

Brilliant. Well done Michigan!

Yes, well done! I am happy that this state will lose more jobs, maybe some of those jobs can go to states that are better to live in and more business friendly such as Texas, South Dakota, and Oklahoma. Michigan doesn't deserve businesses until they become more business friendly.

I hope when more people are unemployed and poor in Michigan the politicians decide to raise the minimum wage even higher to $12 an hour to "help" the people even more.

We don't have a minimum wage here in Germany but the average starting wage is around $12 an hour. Yet we have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world, no? With sponsored university education, meaning only the select get to go to university. Odd how that works isn't it? Also our taxes are higher than in America. Hmmm...seems like you don't have a strong argument.

[Freiheit Reich]

Yes, well done! I am happy that this state will lose more jobs, maybe some of those jobs can go to states that are better to live in and more business friendly such as Texas, South Dakota, and Oklahoma. Michigan doesn't deserve businesses until they become more business friendly.

I hope when more people are unemployed and poor in Michigan the politicians decide to raise the minimum wage even higher to $12 an hour to "help" the people even more.

We don't have a minimum wage here in Germany but the average starting wage is around $12 an hour. Yet we have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world, no? With sponsored university education, meaning only the select get to go to university. Odd how that works isn't it? Also our taxes are higher than in America. Hmmm...seems like you don't have a strong argument.

Singapore unemployment rate: 1.9%

Germany unemployment rate: 5.4%

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/singapo ... yment-rate

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany ... yment-rate

Singapore is more business friendly than Germany and the USA. A reason for having low unemployment rates. Also, no minimum wage and lower taxes than both countries.

Find me a country that is more pro-business than Singapore and we can compare the results.

Germany has a smarter high school system. The vocational training programs are stronger making German high school graduates more employable. The work ethic is also better and has created a system where products are considered top-quality worldwide. BMW is more expensive than Ford but people are willing to pay for quality.

I have a feeling Germany will decline though once China finds a way to copy the BMW and other German technologies and produces them with the same level of quality. I give Germany 15-20 years before they have their 'rust belt' as well.

[Frisivisia]

We don't have a minimum wage here in Germany but the average starting wage is around $12 an hour. Yet we have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world, no? With sponsored university education, meaning only the select get to go to university. Odd how that works isn't it? Also our taxes are higher than in America. Hmmm...seems like you don't have a strong argument.

Singapore unemployment rate: 1.9%

Germany unemployment rate: 5.4%

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/singapo ... yment-rate

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany ... yment-rate

Singapore is more business friendly than Germany and the USA. A reason for having low unemployment rates. Also, no minimum wage and lower taxes than both countries.

Find me a country that is more pro-business than Singapore and we can compare the results.

Germany has a smarter high school system. The vocational training programs are stronger making German high school graduates more employable. The work ethic is also better and has created a system where products are considered top-quality worldwide. BMW is more expensive than Ford but people are willing to pay for quality.

I have a feeling Germany will decline though once China finds a way to copy the BMW and other German technologies and produces them with the same level of quality. I give Germany 15-20 years before they have their 'rust belt' as well.

Singapore is booming for other reasons than being business friendly, maybe if you had another example of this.

[YellowApple]

seems too high for a minimum wage price IMO

"Currently, a minimum wage worker needs to work 80 hours a week in order to afford the rent for a two-bedroom apartment."

Yeah, luxury...

That's it? Just 80 hours at minimum wage for a two-bedroom apartment?

I'd kill for such low rent where I live...

[Freiheit Reich]

Singapore unemployment rate: 1.9%

Germany unemployment rate: 5.4%

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/singapo ... yment-rate

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany ... yment-rate

Singapore is more business friendly than Germany and the USA. A reason for having low unemployment rates. Also, no minimum wage and lower taxes than both countries.

Find me a country that is more pro-business than Singapore and we can compare the results.

Germany has a smarter high school system. The vocational training programs are stronger making German high school graduates more employable. The work ethic is also better and has created a system where products are considered top-quality worldwide. BMW is more expensive than Ford but people are willing to pay for quality.

I have a feeling Germany will decline though once China finds a way to copy the BMW and other German technologies and produces them with the same level of quality. I give Germany 15-20 years before they have their 'rust belt' as well.

Singapore is booming for other reasons than being business friendly, maybe if you had another example of this.

So business friendly rules have nothing to do with economic boom? You think if Singapore tried a Mao style state controlled economy they would have been just as successful as they are now?

[Arkinesia]

seems too high for a minimum wage price IMO

"Currently, a minimum wage worker needs to work 80 hours a week in order to afford the rent for a two-bedroom apartment."

Yeah, luxury...

If the minimum wage were $10 in my state I probably wouldn't have a job. Is the concept of marginal value of labor just completely lost on people these days?

If it's too expensive for minimum-wage workers to live in basic housing, the problem is not the wages, the problem is the fucking realtors and landlords with their heads up their asses who aren't understanding basic economics.

[Divair]

Yes, well done! I am happy that this state will lose more jobs, maybe some of those jobs can go to states that are better to live in and more business friendly such as Texas, South Dakota, and Oklahoma. Michigan doesn't deserve businesses until they become more business friendly.

I hope when more people are unemployed and poor in Michigan the politicians decide to raise the minimum wage even higher to $12 an hour to "help" the people even more.

Top 10 highest minimum wages in the US, according to Wikipedia:
1. Washington (9.19)
2. Oregon (8.95)
3. Vermont (8.60)
4. Connecticut (8.25)
5. Illinois (8.25)
6. Nevada (8.25)
7. Massachusetts (8.00)
8. California (8.00)
9. Ohio (7.85)
10. Arizona (7.80)

Top 10 highest unemployment rates in the US, according to same:
1. Nevada (9.7)
2. Illinois (9.5)
3. California (9.4)
4. Mississippi (9.4)
5. North Carolina (9.2)
6. Rhode Island (9.1)
7. New Jersey (9.0)
8. Indiana (8.7)
9. Washington DC (8.5)
10. Michigan (8.5)

Washington, with its nearly $10 minimum wage, is actually below the US national average of %7.6.

So is Vermont, Massachusetts, and Ohio. It seems like there is no correlation. Who would have thought?

[Obamacult]

Singapore unemployment rate: 1.9%

Germany unemployment rate: 5.4%

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/singapo ... yment-rate

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany ... yment-rate

Singapore is more business friendly than Germany and the USA. A reason for having low unemployment rates. Also, no minimum wage and lower taxes than both countries.

Find me a country that is more pro-business than Singapore and we can compare the results.

Germany has a smarter high school system. The vocational training programs are stronger making German high school graduates more employable. The work ethic is also better and has created a system where products are considered top-quality worldwide. BMW is more expensive than Ford but people are willing to pay for quality.

I have a feeling Germany will decline though once China finds a way to copy the BMW and other German technologies and produces them with the same level of quality. I give Germany 15-20 years before they have their 'rust belt' as well.

Singapore is booming for other reasons than being business friendly, maybe if you had another example of this.

Again, zero facts, zero logic, zero empirical research, zero data.

Predictably, unsupported personal opinion and ideological rigidity and not much else.

[Obamacult]

Yes, well done! I am happy that this state will lose more jobs, maybe some of those jobs can go to states that are better to live in and more business friendly such as Texas, South Dakota, and Oklahoma. Michigan doesn't deserve businesses until they become more business friendly.

I hope when more people are unemployed and poor in Michigan the politicians decide to raise the minimum wage even higher to $12 an hour to "help" the people even more.

Your whole "higher minimum wage causes unemployment" thing is bullshit.

http://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/njmin-aer.pdf

http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/5412

http://www.epi.org/publication/statement-epi-minimum-wage/

Oh shit, I even have facts! And you don't!

Lets examine the 'bevy' of 'facts' that you have provided:

1. The first study examines unemployment and minimum wage laws within the fast food industry within NJ and adjacent communities in Pennsylvania over a period of a few years?! Hardly, a comprehensive study to debunk the logical and empirically supported assertion that the MW increases unemployment.

Validity and reliability of study flawed -- check.

2. The second study you cited examines unemployment rates and the MW in the UK. From your source: 'the association of the NMW with unemployment has been negative in recent years.' (Dolton, Bondibene and Wadsworth, 2009). Moreover, in another study using an international sample size from Bondibene and Dolton (2012) show a decided correlation between MW laws and youth unemployment while no effect is noted for unemployment among older (higher paid) workers -- duh.

Validity and reliability of study confirmed, however results don't jive with the ideological rigidity of NSG poster -- check.

3. This 'study' is pure opinionated, ideologically jaded bullshit. Note the mission statement from the source:

The Economic Policy Institute (EPI), a non-profit, non-partisan think tank, was created in 1986 to broaden discussions about economic policy to include the needs of low- and middle-income workers. EPI believes every working person deserves a good job with fair pay, affordable health care, and retirement security.

Validity, reliability, objectivity and substance of the study thoroughly debunked -- check.

In sum, all the poster has is (1) a study that is highly focused within a small geographic, in a single industry within a short time span, (2) a study that confirms the obvious, namely that MW laws undermine youth employment, and (3) ideological rubbish.

Take it for what it is worth.

[Obamacult]

Top 10 highest minimum wages in the US, according to Wikipedia:
1. Washington (9.19)
2. Oregon (8.95)
3. Vermont (8.60)
4. Connecticut (8.25)
5. Illinois (8.25)
6. Nevada (8.25)
7. Massachusetts (8.00)
8. California (8.00)
9. Ohio (7.85)
10. Arizona (7.80)

Top 10 highest unemployment rates in the US, according to same:
1. Nevada (9.7)
2. Illinois (9.5)
3. California (9.4)
4. Mississippi (9.4)
5. North Carolina (9.2)
6. Rhode Island (9.1)
7. New Jersey (9.0)
8. Indiana (8.7)
9. Washington DC (8.5)
10. Michigan (8.5)

Washington, with its nearly $10 minimum wage, is actually below the US national average of %7.6.

So is Vermont, Massachusetts, and Ohio. It seems like there is no correlation. Who would have thought?

The effect of MW laws are most felt among the lowest skilled workers (youth). In contrast, high paid union workers and other entrenched politically protected workers welcome MW laws for the simple fact that artificially forcing up wages on the bottom of the scale insures that wages are forced up along the entire spectrum and further protected and insulated from the effects of economic reality and competition (at least temporarily until economic reality corrects this imbalance).

Also, artificial increases in the MW make it less likely that a company would hire and train two unskilled workers ($7.50 x 2 =$15) to do the job of a semi-skilled worker $15/hour. This is the reason why entrenched labor (unions) lobby for minimum wage laws. Hence, it is preferable to them that the youth remain unemployed and increasingly denied future prospects, training and experience so they can reap the monetary benefits of politically protected jobs and pay.

Lastly, it could be argued that MW laws further destroy opportunities for those most in need of highly beneficial and necessary 'bootstrap' jobs by incentivising business and industry to forego human labor by making investments into developing robotics and automated systems to replace workers.

Indeed, as progressive policies have made manufacturing workers more expensive to employers, these industries have hastily followed suit to avoid insolvency with more automation and hence more productivity. However, this has been unnecessarily forced on the market from which change would have been more measured, transitory, economically responsible and less traumatic for those losing jobs.

Paradoxically, we can 'thank' well-intentioned progressive policies for both destroying American jobs and increasing American productivity. Nonetheless, these ideologues don't have a clue of the unintended consequences of their ad hoc knee jerk legislation other than the fact that it personally makes them feel good (and gains favor from low information voters) at the time these destructive policies are implemented.

'we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it' -- Nancy Pelosi on Obamacare, 2010

[Czechanada]

There are still minimum wages below $10.00?

[Divair]

:palm:

There are still minimum wages below $10.00?

The majority of them are. The only countries with minimum wages above $10 are:
Australia
Luxembourg
France
Monaco
Belgium
San Marino
Ireland
Netherlands
New Zealand

[Czechanada]

:palm:

There are still minimum wages below $10.00?

The majority of them are. The only countries with minimum wages above $10 are:
Australia
Luxembourg
France
Monaco
Belgium
San Marino
Ireland
Netherlands
New Zealand

Oh, damn. I also realized that it isn't $10.00 all around in Canada.

Only in Alberta and Quebec are the minimum wages $9.75 and $9.90.

[Divair]

Oh, damn. I also realized that it isn't $10.00 all around in Canada.

Only in Alberta and Quebec are the minimum wages $9.75 and $9.90.

Federal law for Canada is at $9.85, just under the UK's $9.98

Those are the two closest to reaching $10.

[Frisivisia]

So is Vermont, Massachusetts, and Ohio. It seems like there is no correlation. Who would have thought?

The effect of MW laws are most felt among the lowest skilled workers (youth). In contrast, high paid union workers and other entrenched politically protected workers welcome MW laws for the simple fact that artificially forcing up wages on the bottom of the scale insures that wages are forced up along the entire spectrum and further protected and insulated from the effects of economic reality and competition (at least temporarily until economic reality corrects this imbalance).

Also, artificial increases in the MW make it less likely that a company would hire and train two unskilled workers ($7.50 x 2 =$15) to do the job of a semi-skilled worker $15/hour. This is the reason why entrenched labor (unions) lobby for minimum wage laws. Hence, it is preferable to them that the youth remain unemployed and increasingly denied future prospects, training and experience so they can reap the monetary benefits of politically protected jobs and pay.

Lastly, it could be argued that MW laws further destroy opportunities for those most in need of highly beneficial and necessary 'bootstrap' jobs by incentivising business and industry to forego human labor by making investments into developing robotics and automated systems to replace workers.

Indeed, as progressive policies have made manufacturing workers more expensive to employers, these industries have hastily followed suit to avoid insolvency with more automation and hence more productivity. However, this has been unnecessarily forced on the market from which change would have been more measured, transitory, economically responsible and less traumatic for those losing jobs.

Paradoxically, we can 'thank' well-intentioned progressive policies for both destroying American jobs and increasing American productivity. Nonetheless, these ideologues don't have a clue of the unintended consequences of their ad hoc knee jerk legislation other than the fact that it personally makes them feel good (and gains favor from low information voters) at the time these destructive policies are implemented.

'we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it' -- Nancy Pelosi on Obamacare, 2010

For an Obamacult post, you had a severe lack of empirical, logical, rational, peer-reviewed, fact-checked, objective, sourced, non-biased evidence to support your claims. Oh wait, that's because reality vaporizes your beliefs on contact.

[Czechanada]

Oh, damn. I also realized that it isn't $10.00 all around in Canada.

Only in Alberta and Quebec are the minimum wages $9.75 and $9.90.

Federal law for Canada is at $9.85, just under the UK's $9.98

Those are the two closest to reaching $10.

I thought it was left up to each indivdual province.

[United Kingdom of Muffins]

Federal law for Canada is at $9.85, just under the UK's $9.98

Those are the two closest to reaching $10.

I thought it was left up to each indivdual province.

Ours is 7.25...

[Divair]

Federal law for Canada is at $9.85, just under the UK's $9.98

Those are the two closest to reaching $10.

I thought it was left up to each indivdual province.

It is. The idea behind the federal law (both for Canada and the USA) is to act as a minimum. Provinces/states cannot go below the federal minimum wage, but can increase it individually.

[Obamacult]

The effect of MW laws are most felt among the lowest skilled workers (youth). In contrast, high paid union workers and other entrenched politically protected workers welcome MW laws for the simple fact that artificially forcing up wages on the bottom of the scale insures that wages are forced up along the entire spectrum and further protected and insulated from the effects of economic reality and competition (at least temporarily until economic reality corrects this imbalance).

Also, artificial increases in the MW make it less likely that a company would hire and train two unskilled workers ($7.50 x 2 =$15) to do the job of a semi-skilled worker $15/hour. This is the reason why entrenched labor (unions) lobby for minimum wage laws. Hence, it is preferable to them that the youth remain unemployed and increasingly denied future prospects, training and experience so they can reap the monetary benefits of politically protected jobs and pay.

Lastly, it could be argued that MW laws further destroy opportunities for those most in need of highly beneficial and necessary 'bootstrap' jobs by incentivising business and industry to forego human labor by making investments into developing robotics and automated systems to replace workers.

Indeed, as progressive policies have made manufacturing workers more expensive to employers, these industries have hastily followed suit to avoid insolvency with more automation and hence more productivity. However, this has been unnecessarily forced on the market from which change would have been more measured, transitory, economically responsible and less traumatic for those losing jobs.

Paradoxically, we can 'thank' well-intentioned progressive policies for both destroying American jobs and increasing American productivity. Nonetheless, these ideologues don't have a clue of the unintended consequences of their ad hoc knee jerk legislation other than the fact that it personally makes them feel good (and gains favor from low information voters) at the time these destructive policies are implemented.

'we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it' -- Nancy Pelosi on Obamacare, 2010

For an Obamacult post, you had a severe lack of empirical, logical, rational, peer-reviewed, fact-checked, objective, sourced, non-biased evidence to support your claims. Oh wait, that's because reality vaporizes your beliefs on contact.

Amusingly and predictably, your post is the very definition of an argument that is completely devoid of fact, logic and empirically supported evidence.

Yet again, you prove my point, even if you don't realize it.