In Defense of George W. Bush Jr.

[Disserbia]

That's it? That makes up for Iraq?

Is that what he said? No. He's saying that people on this site judge him unfairly. I think he's right.

Well put together argument, yet I still think he should be put on trial for warcrimes in the Hague!

To be fair, Obama should too...to be fair virtually every American president should.

[Lesbia]

I don't think people have a 'right' to bear arms.

...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

[Benuty]

Bush was a shit President, sorry. But I'll concur, he was far from the worst.

He should have stayed with governing and painting.

[Democratic Republic of the Triumvirate]

And Hitler introduced animal cruelty laws...

[Liberum Romanus]

I personally want to see him thrown into a gladiatorial ampitheatre against Iraqis.

I'm aware that you're not supposed to be IC in the general discussion. I am not being in character.

[Desperate Measures]

I think GWB's major tragic flaw was that he was the most powerful man of a world that he wasn't even halfway curious about. He was doomed to be far below par.

[Indira]

Obama is a MASSIVE improvement over Bush.

[Kalmarium]

Katrina.

I'm surprised no one else had brought this up.

[Natapoc]

I don't think people have a 'right' to bear arms.

...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

If the second amendment said only "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" wouldn't any law against the someone owning a nuclear weapon, working tanks, anti aircraft weapons, and bio warfare agents be unconstitutional?

I want to fly in my own fully armed Apache helicopter and if you don't let me you're violating my rights!

[Disserbia]

1,2,4,5? Great, but not enough for the Patriot Act, Iraq, and the FMA. 3? That's a bad thing, not good. I don't think people have a 'right' to bear arms.

Too bad you're wrong.

[Disserbia]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

If the second amendment said only "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" wouldn't any law against the someone owning a nuclear weapon, working tanks, anti aircraft weapons, and bio warfare agents be unconstitutional?

I want to fly in my own fully armed Apache helicopter and if you don't let me you're violating my rights!

Just because that is your interpretation of the second amendment doesn't mean that's the real second amendment. It's not, the first version was the real version and its really hard to take an argument like the one you've made seriously, stay civil, stick to real facts.

[Grenartia]

Almost any president worth his salt in the united states will be hated by at least somebody for something, but the teething amount of hate directed at one of them requires some attention. Currently, it would seem, George W. Bush Jr. is recognized as the very devil on NSG, with people blaming him for everything from the Judean People's Front (monty python reference) to head lice. So I figured I would list 5 excellent things his presidency did for the country and the world, with sources listed.

1. First Federal Ban on Racial Profiling:
During his first State of the Union address in early 2001, President Bush vowed to end racial profiling. In 2003, he acted on his promise by issuing an order to 70 federal law enforcement agencies calling for an end to most forms of racial and ethnic profiling. The ban was not airtight, but it was the first ban of its kind.

(Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/17/polit ... -PROF.html)

2. Federal Funding to fight the AIDS Epidemic and Help Developing Nations in Africa in General:
In his 2003 State of the Union address, President Bush announced the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR), a $15 billion global program to fight HIV/AIDS—the largest international effort in history created to fight a disease. In July 2008, Congress passed a $48 billion reauthorization that adds significant funding for tuberculosis and malaria. Frequent administration critic Sen. Joe Biden (D-Del.) has called PEPFAR "the single most significant thing the president has done." The effort is part of Bush's emphasis on foreign aid, particularly within Africa. In the president's first term, the US more than doubled development assistance to Africa and helped secure $34 billion in debt relief for 19 African countries. Today, foreign aid across the globe is three times what it was upon Bill Clinton's departure, though it is still lower, as a percentage of GDP, than most developed nations.

(Source:http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-07-26/opinions/35487798_1_african-countries-pepfar-antiretroviral-treatment)

3. Protected the Right to Bear Arms
When President Bush came into office, the Clinton-era "assault weapons" ban was still in effect. Even though he had supported the ban consistently during his 2000 campaign, President Bush made no serious effort to seek its renewal and it expired in 2004. Since that time, President Bush has also signed legislation preventing local law enforcement agencies from forcibly confiscating legally-owned firearms, as was done on a large scale in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_ ... ne_Katrina (confiscation of firearms subsection))

4. Diversified the Executive Branch like Never Before
President Bush has appointed more women and minorities to high-level posts than any other president in history. Everyone can point to his two African American secretaries of state, Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice, as well as his Hispanic attorney general, Alberto Gonzales. But a number of lesser-known Cabinet secretaries also broke the old-boy mold. His commerce secretary, Carlos Gutierrez, is a Cuban-born businessman. His past and present transportation secretaries have been an Asian American man (Norman Mineta) and a woman (Mary Peters). His education secretaries have been an African American man (Rod Paige) and a woman (Margaret Spellings). His labor secretary, Elaine Chao, was the first Asian American woman in US history to be appointed to a Cabinet post. Unfortunately, Bush's diverse picks did not always do the country proud. Gonzales presided over the politicization of the Department of Justice and provided the administration with a legal rationale for detainee torture. Former Housing and Urban Development chief Alphonso Jackson, another Bush hand from Texas, allegedly used his post to hand out contracts to friends and political allies. He left office under investigation by an inspector general, the FBI, and the Justice Department.

(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency ... ge_W._Bush (just a basic list of his cabinet))

5. Got North Korea to Shut Down it's Nuclear Reactor (At least until recently)
In what is considered a diplomatic "win" for U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice over the more aggressive policies of Vice President Dick Cheney, the United States has made slow but steady progress in dealing with North Korea. At least until recently, but we have a new administration to blame for that.

(Source: http://usforeignpolicy.about.com/b/2007 ... -korea.htm)

Really though, while definitely not the best of presidents, he's hardly the super-extra totalitarian bigot alot of people make him out to be. Not saying he was THE BEST PRESIDENT EVER, but he was better then a lot of others *cough*andrew-jackson-woodrow-wilson-james-buchanan-richard-nixon-obama*cough*. He may have made some mistakes, but he also did some pretty awesome stuff as I just described to you. So next time when you wonder if he did anything good, remember this list.

Why the fuck is Obama in your list? Granted, Obama's not the best president, either, but he's far from shitty.

Unlike Bush. Allow me to point out several shitty things he did/supported as President.

1. Iraq War (a needless war against a country that didn't even have WMDs).

2. The shitty Federal response to Hurricane Katrina. There are multiple accounts of people claiming to have been blocked from delivering aid to the people of the city. Meanwhile, Bush said he couldn't send in the National Guard because 'it was too dangerous' (despite the fact that these were the same men and women fighting in Iraq). Its official, folks. Post-Katrina New Orleans: More dangerous than Fallujah.

That's it? That makes up for Iraq?

Is that what he said? No. He's saying that people on this site judge him unfairly. I think he's right.

Well, when a man tells the director of FEMA that he's doing "a heck of a job" when literally thousands of people are fucking starving, dehydrated, overheated, and dying in the fucking streets of a major city, and one is from said city, and was there when shit hit the fucking fan, one tends to judge the man who said the quote rather fucking harshly.

If you'd been in my shoes when Katrina happened, you'd feel the same fucking way.

[The Godly Nations]

Almost any president worth his salt in the united states will be hated by at least somebody for something, but the teething amount of hate directed at one of them requires some attention. Currently, it would seem, George W. Bush Jr. is recognized as the very devil on NSG, with people blaming him for everything from the Judean People's Front (monty python reference) to head lice. So I figured I would list 5 excellent things his presidency did for the country and the world, with sources listed.

1. First Federal Ban on Racial Profiling:
During his first State of the Union address in early 2001, President Bush vowed to end racial profiling. In 2003, he acted on his promise by issuing an order to 70 federal law enforcement agencies calling for an end to most forms of racial and ethnic profiling. The ban was not airtight, but it was the first ban of its kind.

(Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/17/polit ... -PROF.html)

2. Federal Funding to fight the AIDS Epidemic and Help Developing Nations in Africa in General:
In his 2003 State of the Union address, President Bush announced the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR), a $15 billion global program to fight HIV/AIDS—the largest international effort in history created to fight a disease. In July 2008, Congress passed a $48 billion reauthorization that adds significant funding for tuberculosis and malaria. Frequent administration critic Sen. Joe Biden (D-Del.) has called PEPFAR "the single most significant thing the president has done." The effort is part of Bush's emphasis on foreign aid, particularly within Africa. In the president's first term, the US more than doubled development assistance to Africa and helped secure $34 billion in debt relief for 19 African countries. Today, foreign aid across the globe is three times what it was upon Bill Clinton's departure, though it is still lower, as a percentage of GDP, than most developed nations.

(Source:http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-07-26/opinions/35487798_1_african-countries-pepfar-antiretroviral-treatment)

3. Protected the Right to Bear Arms
When President Bush came into office, the Clinton-era "assault weapons" ban was still in effect. Even though he had supported the ban consistently during his 2000 campaign, President Bush made no serious effort to seek its renewal and it expired in 2004. Since that time, President Bush has also signed legislation preventing local law enforcement agencies from forcibly confiscating legally-owned firearms, as was done on a large scale in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_ ... ne_Katrina (confiscation of firearms subsection))

4. Diversified the Executive Branch like Never Before
President Bush has appointed more women and minorities to high-level posts than any other president in history. Everyone can point to his two African American secretaries of state, Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice, as well as his Hispanic attorney general, Alberto Gonzales. But a number of lesser-known Cabinet secretaries also broke the old-boy mold. His commerce secretary, Carlos Gutierrez, is a Cuban-born businessman. His past and present transportation secretaries have been an Asian American man (Norman Mineta) and a woman (Mary Peters). His education secretaries have been an African American man (Rod Paige) and a woman (Margaret Spellings). His labor secretary, Elaine Chao, was the first Asian American woman in US history to be appointed to a Cabinet post. Unfortunately, Bush's diverse picks did not always do the country proud. Gonzales presided over the politicization of the Department of Justice and provided the administration with a legal rationale for detainee torture. Former Housing and Urban Development chief Alphonso Jackson, another Bush hand from Texas, allegedly used his post to hand out contracts to friends and political allies. He left office under investigation by an inspector general, the FBI, and the Justice Department.

(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency ... ge_W._Bush (just a basic list of his cabinet))

5. Got North Korea to Shut Down it's Nuclear Reactor (At least until recently)
In what is considered a diplomatic "win" for U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice over the more aggressive policies of Vice President Dick Cheney, the United States has made slow but steady progress in dealing with North Korea. At least until recently, but we have a new administration to blame for that.

(Source: http://usforeignpolicy.about.com/b/2007 ... -korea.htm)

Really though, while definitely not the best of presidents, he's hardly the super-extra totalitarian bigot alot of people make him out to be. Not saying he was THE BEST PRESIDENT EVER, but he was better then a lot of others *cough*andrew-jackson-woodrow-wilson-james-buchanan-richard-nixon-obama*cough*. He may have made some mistakes, but he also did some pretty awesome stuff as I just described to you. So next time when you wonder if he did anything good, remember this list.

Why the fuck is Obama in your list? Granted, Obama's not the best president, either, but he's far from shitty.

Unlike Bush. Allow me to point out several shitty things he did/supported as President.

1. Iraq War (a needless war against a country that didn't even have WMDs).

2. The shitty Federal response to Hurricane Katrina. There are multiple accounts of people claiming to have been blocked from delivering aid to the people of the city. Meanwhile, Bush said he couldn't send in the National Guard because 'it was too dangerous' (despite the fact that these were the same men and women fighting in Iraq). Its official, folks. Post-Katrina New Orleans: More dangerous than Fallujah.

Is that what he said? No. He's saying that people on this site judge him unfairly. I think he's right.

Well, when a man tells the director of FEMA that he's doing "a heck of a job" when literally thousands of people are fucking starving, dehydrated, overheated, and dying in the fucking streets of a major city, and one is from said city, and was there when shit hit the fucking fan, one tends to judge the man who said the quote rather fucking harshly.

If you'd been in my shoes when Katrina happened, you'd feel the same fucking way.

Calm down--- as the OP and several other people have mentioned, it is far too early to make any decision on Bush's reign, seeing as we are far too impassioned to be objective with respect to the former president. If we look at it from the future, we would see the mark of his genius in his supposed ineptitude- just as wasting billions on Iraq will prove to be another mark of genius, or all the other things within his reign.

[The Serbian Empire]

The whole "started two unnecessary wars and has cost us untold trillions in wartime expenses along with thousands and thousands of deaths, and also allowed his people to torture prisoners" thing weighs heavily against him, though.

And Bin Laden would still be alive, meaning America's Carthage was not destroyed.

[Indira]

Calm down--- as the OP and several other people have mentioned, it is far too early to make any decision on Bush's reign, seeing as we are far too impassioned to be objective with respect to the former president. If we look at it from the future, we would see the mark of his genius in his supposed ineptitude- just as wasting billions on Iraq will prove to be another mark of genius, or all the other things within his reign.[/quote]

Now that's funny;D Of course, we could say the same about Obama I suppose, but it would probably be more true

[Ashmoria]

The whole "started two unnecessary wars and has cost us untold trillions in wartime expenses along with thousands and thousands of deaths, and also allowed his people to torture prisoners" thing weighs heavily against him, though.

And Bin Laden would still be alive, meaning America's Carthage was not destroyed.

no there was no real need to have 2 wars in order to kill bin laden. at most we needed the few months it took to corner him at torabora. but bush/cheney wanted an Iraq war so they had to let him go.

[The Serbian Empire]

And Bin Laden would still be alive, meaning America's Carthage was not destroyed.

no there was no real need to have 2 wars in order to kill bin laden. at most we needed the few months it took to corner him at torabora. but bush/cheney wanted an Iraq war so they had to let him go.

We wouldn't have had the information from the torturing of prisoners to get Bin Laden after he escaped in Torabora.

[Wamitoria]

no there was no real need to have 2 wars in order to kill bin laden. at most we needed the few months it took to corner him at torabora. but bush/cheney wanted an Iraq war so they had to let him go.

We wouldn't have had the information from the torturing of prisoners to get Bin Laden after he escaped in Torabora.

We never got information from tortured prisoners. We got information from prisoners that were tortured at some point, but the information was acquired when the subjects of interrogation were not under duress.

[The Serbian Empire]

We wouldn't have had the information from the torturing of prisoners to get Bin Laden after he escaped in Torabora.

We never got information from tortured prisoners. We got information from prisoners that were tortured at some point, but the information was acquired when the subjects of interrogation were not under duress.

So the prisoners were tortured at one point. I suspect if there wasn't any torture in the past, then they might have not responded so well to the lack of it in later interrogations. None the less, torture is wrong and it is possible without the negatives of Bush there would be less positives in Obama's Administration as Bin Laden may still be around.

[Wamitoria]

We never got information from tortured prisoners. We got information from prisoners that were tortured at some point, but the information was acquired when the subjects of interrogation were not under duress.

So the prisoners were tortured at one point. I suspect if there wasn't any torture in the past, then they might have not responded so well to the lack of it in later interrogations.

Not really. If anything, they were more resilient due to surviving much heavier abuse.

[The Serbian Empire]

So the prisoners were tortured at one point. I suspect if there wasn't any torture in the past, then they might have not responded so well to the lack of it in later interrogations.

Not really. If anything, they were more resilient due to surviving much heavier abuse.

I believe the real interrogation data is classified and wouldn't trust anything from the government saying otherwise. I doubt they would flip so easily without possibility of being released for that information.

[Typhlochactas]

Is that what he said? No. He's saying that people on this site judge him unfairly. I think he's right.

No, he's not right at all. He's arguing that people are too critical of him because he did five inane things that any president could have done, so we should stop being so mean about that whole four hundred billion dollars down the toilet thing.

[Gravlen]

That's it? That makes up for Iraq?

Is that what he said? No. He's saying that people on this site judge him unfairly. I think he's right.

He's indeed being judged unfairly. He should be judged much more harshly than what many are doing. There's no reason to be so lenient and try to make excuses for him.

[Desperate Measures]

Is that what he said? No. He's saying that people on this site judge him unfairly. I think he's right.

He's indeed being judged unfairly. He should be judged much more harshly than what many are doing. There's no reason to be so lenient and try to make excuses for him.

It's amazing that some are already trying revise history to be favorable to Bush. Wasn't this supposed to only happen in about 20 years or so?

[Gravlen]

He's indeed being judged unfairly. He should be judged much more harshly than what many are doing. There's no reason to be so lenient and try to make excuses for him.

It's amazing that some are already trying revise history to be favorable to Bush. Wasn't this supposed to only happen in about 20 years or so?

I thought they started doing that while he was still in office...