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Thanks to NRA, convicted felons CAN own guns - in LA

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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:41 pm

Seangoli wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Then explain to me what sort of convicted felons would the bill allow to own firearms?


I'll first explain what convicted felon refers to:

A convicted felon is a person who has been convicted in court of a crime labeled as a felony. You are not a convicted felon if you go to a therapist. You are a convicted felon if you were charged, tried, and found guilty of a felony. In other words a particularly serious crime that has involved prison terms usually. Rape, murder, assault, kidnapping, etc are all felonies. It's that damn simple.

This would allow people who have been convicted of particularly serious crimes to own weapons.


You still have not explained to me what specific kinds of felons it would allow to possess firearms. Unless your saying that the bill would allows all kinds of felons which you'll need to provide a source with.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Kreanoltha
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Postby Kreanoltha » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:41 pm

If anyone bothered to research the case on their own they'd realize horribly biased and misleading thread title is horribly biased and misleading. :roll:
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Meinkraft
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Postby Meinkraft » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:42 pm

*facepalm* Needs to be looked into by the Supreme court.


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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:42 pm

greed and death wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Umm yeah usually when someone uses the abbreviation L.A. Los Angeles usually comes to mind.

There is only one LA and it is a state. Those hippies in California can suck it.


I happen to like those hippies they give you free ''puff puff''. :(
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:44 pm

Kreanoltha wrote:If anyone bothered to research the case on their own they'd realize horribly biased and misleading thread title is horribly biased and misleading. :roll:


Thank you.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Occupied Deutschland
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:44 pm

Seangoli wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Then explain to me what sort of convicted felons would the bill allow to own firearms?


I'll first explain what convicted felon refers to:

A convicted felon is a person who has been convicted in court of a crime labeled as a felony. You are not a convicted felon if you go to a therapist. You are a convicted felon if you were charged, tried, and found guilty of a felony. In other words a particularly serious crime that has involved prison terms usually. Rape, murder, assault, kidnapping, etc are all felonies. It's that damn simple.

This would allow people who have been convicted of particularly serious crimes to own weapons.

Not really.

The case appears to be about a man who committed a nonviolent felony (burglary) being found in possession (actual possession seems like it might be iffy, but might only seem such because of a lack of details) of a pair of firearms and being brought to court as a felon in possession for that. I don't know the specifics of the LA law, but summaries seem to say it applies the same protections to the firearm rights of an individual as they get for speech and other basic rights.

From the news stories, it seems the decision is based on a distinction between nonviolent and violent felonies vis-a-vis gun ownership in LA, but that might be off as all the news stories seem a bit disjointed and incomplete.
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SaintB
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Postby SaintB » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:45 pm

Seangoli wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Then explain to me what sort of convicted felons would the bill allow to own firearms?


I'll first explain what convicted felon refers to:

A convicted felon is a person who has been convicted in court of a crime labeled as a felony. You are not a convicted felon if you go to a therapist. You are a convicted felon if you were charged, tried, and found guilty of a felony. In other words a particularly serious crime that has involved prison terms usually. Rape, murder, assault, kidnapping, etc are all felonies. It's that damn simple.

This would allow people who have been convicted of particularly serious crimes to own weapons.

There are non violent felonies and I feel that people who were found guilty of certain ones of them should be allowed to own firearms. The man in the OP case however should not be allowed since he was guilty of a crime that could very potentially be violent.
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Kreanoltha
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Postby Kreanoltha » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:48 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Kreanoltha wrote:If anyone bothered to research the case on their own they'd realize horribly biased and misleading thread title is horribly biased and misleading. :roll:


Thank you.


No problem. I'm not in favor of felons owning guns. That said, no one here has bothered to go look up Louisiana v. Draughter, realize what the judge's reasoning was (as far as I can tell [there's very little on the case out there] the defendant wasn't given due process and had not committed a violent crime; should this be the case, I favor his right to own guns), and realize that the NRA had nothing to do with this.

No. The NRA is evil. Let's dogpile and circlejerk to how evil they are. :roll:
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:49 pm

Occupied Deutschland wrote:
Seangoli wrote:
I'll first explain what convicted felon refers to:

A convicted felon is a person who has been convicted in court of a crime labeled as a felony. You are not a convicted felon if you go to a therapist. You are a convicted felon if you were charged, tried, and found guilty of a felony. In other words a particularly serious crime that has involved prison terms usually. Rape, murder, assault, kidnapping, etc are all felonies. It's that damn simple.

This would allow people who have been convicted of particularly serious crimes to own weapons.

Not really.

The case appears to be about a man who committed a nonviolent felony (burglary) being found in possession (actual possession seems like it might be iffy, but might only seem such because of a lack of details) of a pair of firearms and being brought to court as a felon in possession for that. I don't know the specifics of the LA law, but summaries seem to say it applies the same protections to the firearm rights of an individual as they get for speech and other basic rights.

From the news stories, it seems the decision is based on a distinction between nonviolent and violent felonies vis-a-vis gun ownership in LA, but that might be off as all the news stories seem a bit disjointed and incomplete.


Breaking and entering, while not violent in and of itself, is seldom the only crime committed.

It leaves the occupants of a building vulnerable to someone who is illegally on the premises.

It's a very serious crime and should not be taken lightly.
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Sardine World
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Postby Sardine World » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:52 pm

gettin real tired of your shit NRA
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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:00 pm

Keep screwing with people's safety, NRA. Keep it up.
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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:19 pm

Sardine World wrote:gettin real tired of your shit NRA


Good for you, like we give a shit about your personal feelings about us.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:20 pm

Ainin wrote:Keep screwing with people's safety, NRA. Keep it up.


Have you even read the fucking bill? I thought this was Autism Awareness month, or is it all of a sudden ''bitch and moan about the NRA'' month?
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Occupied Deutschland
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:21 pm

Sardine World wrote:gettin real tired of your shit NRA

Good news, it dissolved in 1935. I know, I watched a couple of their crap movies too.
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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:28 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Ainin wrote:Keep screwing with people's safety, NRA. Keep it up.


Have you even read the fucking bill? I thought this was Autism Awareness month, or is it all of a sudden ''bitch and moan about the NRA'' month?

Why can't we have both?
"And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?"
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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:31 pm

Ainin wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Have you even read the fucking bill? I thought this was Autism Awareness month, or is it all of a sudden ''bitch and moan about the NRA'' month?

Why can't we have both?


Because nobody cares about an annoying group of people's passionate hatred for the NRA.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:35 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Ainin wrote:Why can't we have both?


Because nobody cares about an annoying group of people's passionate hatred for the NRA.

1) That was... sarcasm.
2) The NRA really isn't helping its PR by doing dumb things that everyone hates.
"And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?"
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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:38 pm

Ainin wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Because nobody cares about an annoying group of people's passionate hatred for the NRA.

1) That was... sarcasm.
2) The NRA really isn't helping its PR by doing dumb things that everyone hates.


Care to elaborate on these ''dumb things that everyone hates'' you mentioned? Because last time I checked alot of people DONT want anymore gun control and supporting your rights isnt dumb.
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:43 pm, edited 4 times in total.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:44 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Ainin wrote:1) That was... sarcasm.
2) The NRA really isn't helping its PR by doing dumb things that everyone hates.


Who's everyone? And care to elaborate on these ''dumb things'' you mentioned? Because last time I checked supporting your rights isnt dumb.

Everyone was obviously an exaggeration. The Second Amendment is honestly not very positively viewed in Europe and Canada and the NRA Leadership is just not helping their case by bitching all day about how nothing is the fault of guns.
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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:57 pm

Ainin wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Who's everyone? And care to elaborate on these ''dumb things'' you mentioned? Because last time I checked supporting your rights isnt dumb.

Everyone was obviously an exaggeration. The Second Amendment is honestly not very positively viewed in Europe and Canada and the NRA Leadership is just not helping their case by bitching all day about how nothing is the fault of guns.


The only people bitching are the schmucks that support some piece-of-shit assault weapons ban that has failed to stop gun violence in the past but yet they still wanna push it through, they bitch about these things emotionally. We complain about them logically using facts, and we do more than just ''bitch'' we take action and we take down many pansy liberal do nothing feel goodery bills that lies to the public and waists tax payer's money.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:02 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Ainin wrote:Everyone was obviously an exaggeration. The Second Amendment is honestly not very positively viewed in Europe and Canada and the NRA Leadership is just not helping their case by bitching all day about how nothing is the fault of guns.


The only people bitching are the schmucks that support some piece-of-shit assault weapons ban that has failed to stop gun violence in the past but yet they still wanna push it through, they bitch about these things emotionally. We complain about them logically using facts, and we do more than just ''bitch'' we take action and we take down many pansy liberal do nothing feel goodery bills that lies to the public and waists tax payer's money.

Coming from a country where tasers are prohibited weapons, I have a hard time relating to the NRA crusade for gun rights. And "guns don't kill, people kill" isn't really logic, it's missing the point.
"And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?"
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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:15 pm

Ainin wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
The only people bitching are the schmucks that support some piece-of-shit assault weapons ban that has failed to stop gun violence in the past but yet they still wanna push it through, they bitch about these things emotionally. We complain about them logically using facts, and we do more than just ''bitch'' we take action and we take down many pansy liberal do nothing feel goodery bills that lies to the public and waists tax payer's money.

Coming from a country where tasers are prohibited weapons, I have a hard time relating to the NRA crusade for gun rights. And "guns don't kill, people kill" isn't really logic, it's missing the point.


Tasers are banned in your country? not my problem. It is logic the anti-gunners just refuse to solving the cause and instead ban things that criminals will still get their hands on and that are used the very least in crime and are owned by millions upon millions of law-abiding americans.

Just FYI:

THIS is not an assault rifle (or in the left's case an ''assault weapon'' yet they want it banned. why? ''becuz it can hold more than ten cop killer bulletz and haz scawy cosmetics meh meh meh''

Image

This is an AR-15 semi-automatic sporting rifle made FOR civilians.
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Freiheit Reich
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Postby Freiheit Reich » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:45 am

Good, after prison the ex-con should be able to have full rights (including voting rights).

The fact they have been released means they are safe to return to society. Treat them fairly. If they use the gun in a crime than lock them up again. Not a hard concept to understand.
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Gun Manufacturers
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Postby Gun Manufacturers » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:45 am

It is against federal law for a convicted felon to possess/own firearms, regardless of state laws (18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1)). This is nothing more than an excuse to attack the NRA.
Gun control is like trying to solve drunk driving by making it harder for sober people to own cars.

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DOJ's interpretation of the 2nd Amendment: http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/fi ... -p0126.pdf

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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:51 am

Found a copy of the ruling if anyone is interested. The issue hinges on the law not being narrowly tailored.

http://www.volokh.com/wp-content/upload ... ughter.pdf
Last edited by Greed and Death on Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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