Atheists and Afterlife views

[Hydesland]

And lies to yourself are nothing but lies.

So?

[Fassitude]

So?

This explains so much about you.

[Hydesland]

So?

This explains so much about you.

I guess it explains why I don't have hatred for any theist like you do.

[Fassitude]

I guess it explains why I don't have hatred for any theist like you do.

Because you admire, and envy, falsehoods and do not care that they are. Being such a person... well, has earned you my pity. Not scorn. That requires deserving.

[Czardas]

How daft of you to do so, especially with, but not only limited to, the versions of it they delude themselves into believing. You shouldn't envy self-delusion. You should either pity, or better yet, scorn it.

I don't see the truth as inherently special. The truth (or at least how I perceive it) is depressing and cold.

You know what I find more depressing than the truth about the afterlife? People desperately clinging to completely irrational and unsupported beliefs, religious or otherwise, out of fear of death. The lengths people are willing to go to avoid confronting reality. The fervor with which they can believe in things that aren't real so that they don't have to face oblivion... and the fact that in the end it takes them just as surely as it takes the rest of us. That's pretty depressing.

[Hydesland]

Because you admire, and envy, falsehoods and do not care that they are. Being such a person... well, has earned you my pity. Not scorn. That requires deserving.

I don't admire the falsehoods themselves necessarily. It's just that, if I was convinced that I will once again be reunited with loved ones I have lost, that not everything is entirely meaningless, without purpose, without any objective right or wrong, that people don't just suffer for no reason and that I will no longer have my minor fear of death, I would be a lot happier.

[Hydesland]

You know what I find more depressing than the truth about the afterlife? People desperately clinging to completely irrational and unsupported beliefs, religious or otherwise, out of fear of death.

That's a remarkably simplistic and old fashioned analysis of why people are religious. I don't find it compelling.

The lengths people are willing to go to avoid confronting reality. The fervor with which they can believe in things that aren't real so that they don't have to face oblivion... and the fact that in the end it takes them just as surely as it takes the rest of us. That's pretty depressing.

I don't find that particular concept depressing, that people will escape from reality. That just reinforces the concept that reality is depressing, more than anything else.

[Farnhamia]

You know what I find more depressing than the truth about the afterlife? People desperately clinging to completely irrational and unsupported beliefs, religious or otherwise, out of fear of death.

That's a remarkably simplistic and old fashioned analysis of why people are religious. I don't find it compelling.

The lengths people are willing to go to avoid confronting reality. The fervor with which they can believe in things that aren't real so that they don't have to face oblivion... and the fact that in the end it takes them just as surely as it takes the rest of us. That's pretty depressing.

I don't find that particular concept depressing, that people will escape from reality. That just reinforces the concept that reality is depressing, more than anything else.

Reality certainly is depressing when you're poor, when you have no reliable supply of fresh water, when sewage runs in the streets of your village, when your children - assuming you live long enough to have any - die before the age of five. And what do you get in response to your prayers? "Don't worry, it'll be okay after you die."

I think if the religions, especially Western ones but the Eastern are, in some ways, just as bad with all their mysticism, concentrated less on the life to come and more on improving the lot of people here, the world would be a better place. Yes, yes, there are religious charities all over, but the basic message is still, "It'll all be okay after you die. Oh, and you're a sinner, too."

[Hydesland]

Reality certainly is depressing when you're poor, when you have no reliable supply of fresh water, when sewage runs in the streets of your village, when your children - assuming you live long enough to have any - die before the age of five. And what do you get in response to your prayers? "Don't worry, it'll be okay after you die."

I think if the religions, especially Western ones but the Eastern are, in some ways, just as bad with all their mysticism, concentrated less on the life to come and more on improving the lot of people here, the world would be a better place. Yes, yes, there are religious charities all over, but the basic message is still, "It'll all be okay after you die. Oh, and you're a sinner, too."

Again, simplistic characterisation. It differs from religion to religion, from sect to sect, from Church to Church and from individual to individual. There are many examples of when a vague and unrealistic hope is what motivated people to do things to better the situation of others that would otherwise seem worthless to rational people, or to even give their lives to causes. What's that quote? "Taking away a man's hope is truly wicked", something like that.

[Farnhamia]

Reality certainly is depressing when you're poor, when you have no reliable supply of fresh water, when sewage runs in the streets of your village, when your children - assuming you live long enough to have any - die before the age of five. And what do you get in response to your prayers? "Don't worry, it'll be okay after you die."

I think if the religions, especially Western ones but the Eastern are, in some ways, just as bad with all their mysticism, concentrated less on the life to come and more on improving the lot of people here, the world would be a better place. Yes, yes, there are religious charities all over, but the basic message is still, "It'll all be okay after you die. Oh, and you're a sinner, too."

Again, simplistic characterisation. It differs from religion to religion, from sect to sect, from Church to Church and from individual to individual. There are many examples of when a vague and unrealistic hope is what motivated people to do things to better the situation of others that would otherwise seem worthless to rational people, or to even give their lives to causes. What's that quote? "Taking away a man's hope is truly wicked", something like that.

Who's taking away hope? I merely suggest substituting hope of a better life here, if not for yourself then for your children, rather than the vague hope of celestial bliss.

[Hydesland]

Who's taking away hope? I merely suggest substituting hope of a better life here, if not for yourself then for your children, rather than the vague hope of celestial bliss.

That's how faith can often manifest itself, that what you're fighting for is worth it, that it's the right thing to do, it's not meaningless, it wont be forgotten about in time etc... But I digress.

[Fassitude]

I don't admire the falsehoods themselves necessarily. It's just that, if I was convinced that I will once again be reunited with loved ones I have lost, that not everything is entirely meaningless, without purpose, without any objective right or wrong, that people don't just suffer for no reason and that I will no longer have my minor fear of death, I would be a lot happier.

You wouldn't be a lot happier. You'd just be more dishonest about how you feel.

[Hydesland]

You wouldn't be a lot happier. You'd just be more dishonest about how you feel.

I wouldn't be more happy, I would just think I am, gotcha.

[Political Pilgrims]

I believe in an afterlife. I believe in heaven and hell. I'm the other side. Let's go, guys.

[Fassitude]

I wouldn't be more happy, I would just think I am, gotcha.

At moments you might succeed in forgetting that it's all just you trying to force happiness. But not for long, and you know it.

[Czardas]

You know what I find more depressing than the truth about the afterlife? People desperately clinging to completely irrational and unsupported beliefs, religious or otherwise, out of fear of death.

That's a remarkably simplistic and old fashioned analysis of why people are religious. I don't find it compelling.

That's not why people are religious. (I'm pretty sure religiosity is genetic or natural in some sense, actually.) That appears to be why people believe in an afterlife, though.

The lengths people are willing to go to avoid confronting reality. The fervor with which they can believe in things that aren't real so that they don't have to face oblivion... and the fact that in the end it takes them just as surely as it takes the rest of us. That's pretty depressing.

I don't find that particular concept depressing, that people will escape from reality. That just reinforces the concept that reality is depressing, more than anything else.

I find it depressing, but only because I find reality so exciting and beautiful and interesting. What I get depressed about is more that I'll be unable to experience all of it during my lifetime, and have already missed out on quite a lot due to inertia and laziness.

[Scotus Anonymous]

I took what Hydesland said as meaning he would be happy if he were actually able to convince himself of the happy-making delusions.

That is to say, if he had at some level completely internalized and believed the delusion, he would then be happy.

While that certainly doesn't make it any less delusional or mitigate the intrinsic problems of believing something just to make yourself happy, he did predicate it on the premise that he genuine believed it.

[Tolanie]

It just ends. Finito

[Manahakatouki]

I know this will sound pretty cheesey in a sense but serisouly because we will never know until it happens we will never know. I suppose making some belief of an afterlife would put some better thoughts in ones head thus leading to a better life. But seriously we arnt gonna know so dont make it seem like we know whats gonna happen or something.

[Fassitude]

I suppose making some belief of an afterlife would put some better thoughts in ones head thus leading to a better life.

Or much more likely a wasted one.

[Scotus Anonymous]

I know this will sound pretty cheesey in a sense but serisouly because we will never know until it happens we will never know. I suppose making some belief of an afterlife would put some better thoughts in ones head thus leading to a better life. But seriously we arnt gonna know so dont make it seem like we know whats gonna happen or something.

Depends on the afterlife. What if you believe that Crom awaits, and anyone you kill becomes your slave in the afterlife?

Or what if somebody teaches that you will become exalted to Godhood in the afterlife if you obey their church, and their church says gays don't deserve equal rights?

Those don't put very good thoughts in your head.

[CanuckHeaven]

Atheists don't believe in the existence of deities, but there is no requirement that they not believe in afterlives. Atheists may vary in their views on the possibility of an afterlife.

I'm an atheist, and I believe that nothing that makes us the unique individuals we are truly survives death. Our personalities pass out of existence. At best, I can say that there is life after death, but the life that exists after my death won't be my own.

So, as a non-believer in gods, what are your views on life after death?

I did a thread on this back on the old Jolt Forum, complete with a poll.

You might find it interesting.

[Allbeama]

I do believe in a stronger probability of afterlife. Why? Let me answer with a question. Why do Atheists not believe in God? Because theres no proof. Well... i have no proof of the afterlife but i have heard of first hand experiences which make me question it, at least.

This happened with an Aunt of mine, which is infinitely more skeptical on everything related to religion. She's a judge and she is very objective and analytical, and absolutely despises everything related to the supernatural. One day, she had something fucked up happen to her and she got sent to the hospital. She was in a coma for a couple of weeks. She told me that while she was in a come she would wander around the hospital in spirit form (sounds stupid, bear with me). When she woke up, she knew the names of every employee in the hospital (she had never been to that hospital before). The people at the hospital were shocked.

She told me this, and i believe her because i know her very well and have met few people more sensible and level headed. I don't expect others to believe it, but i have heard of other similar accounts that do make me wonder.

You realize that this proves nothing whatsoever, right?

I don't think it was meant to prove anything. Only showing that some have reason to believe that an afterlife exists.

The reason is that they want to. At least from my point of view.

[Bormanico]

I do believe in a stronger probability of afterlife. Why? Let me answer with a question. Why do Atheists not believe in God? Because theres no proof. Well... i have no proof of the afterlife but i have heard of first hand experiences which make me question it, at least.

This happened with an Aunt of mine, which is infinitely more skeptical on everything related to religion. She's a judge and she is very objective and analytical, and absolutely despises everything related to the supernatural. One day, she had something fucked up happen to her and she got sent to the hospital. She was in a coma for a couple of weeks. She told me that while she was in a come she would wander around the hospital in spirit form (sounds stupid, bear with me). When she woke up, she knew the names of every employee in the hospital (she had never been to that hospital before). The people at the hospital were shocked.

She told me this, and i believe her because i know her very well and have met few people more sensible and level headed. I don't expect others to believe it, but i have heard of other similar accounts that do make me wonder.

You realize that this proves nothing whatsoever, right?

I don't think it was meant to prove anything. Only showing that some have reason to believe that an afterlife exists.

The reason is that they want to. At least from my point of view.

Not in this case though, i live just fine knowing im going to end becoming dirt and so does she. The thing is, if something "paranormal" happens to you, it lends SOME credibility to other paranormal events. Makes you question it atleast. It's like those people who say they talk to God. Most of us just think they are insane, but if something like that happened to you wether you admited to insanity or not, you would still question it MORE, than if nothing had happened.

[Bormanico]

I don't see the truth as inherently special. The truth (or at least how I perceive it) is depressing and cold.

And lies to yourself are nothing but lies. No matter that they comfort you. "I'm not fat, I'm big-boned." Don't yearn to be the fat slag lying to herself in the mirror.

You're missing the point. Ignorance is bliss. The people who are being "lied to"/delusional in these matters, hardly ever get to realize it. So that coldness Fassitude was talking about, can easily be avoided without feeling like you are living a lie.