Prime Minister Thatcher -The Mod Made Thread

[Polkopia]

Yeah, I agree... almost like most of the liberal communist leaders of Russia were saying at the time... But no, no, you're completely right. A nation's leader's opinion does matter

Can you try rephrasing this? All I can get is that it appears you're desperate to try and do that annoying LIBERALS!!! thing people love to do and that maybe you're saying the Soviets were scared of East Germany uniting with the much larger and stronger West Germany for the opposite reason you were and because of what actually happened.

What I'm saying is that her reasoning was completely and utterly justified whether you agree with her opinion or not.

[Napkiraly]

Can you try rephrasing this? All I can get is that it appears you're desperate to try and do that annoying LIBERALS!!! thing people love to do and that maybe you're saying the Soviets were scared of East Germany uniting with the much larger and stronger West Germany for the opposite reason you were and because of what actually happened.

What I'm saying is that her reasoning was completely and utterly justified whether you agree with her opinion or not.

Reasoning was so justified most Western leaders agreed with her.

Wait.

[Polkopia]

What I'm saying is that her reasoning was completely and utterly justified whether you agree with her opinion or not.

Reasoning was so justified most Western leaders agreed with her.

Wait.

She had reasons to believe what she believed, much like most Western leaders believed what they believed for other reasons. I don't see why that makes her a bad politician.

[Alyakia]

I am Souseiseki. :-)

I can't wait to see the silent majority come through.



Oh, really?

Are you saying YouGov operates differently from what I said?

Are you saying that the nature of "a survey that is only on the internet only for people that go out of their way to sign up for and take them" will not affect the results, since you mentioned YouGov?

Yes, very really.

YouGov don't go for random selections, they select representative sample groups from their panel based on demographics and survey them. Due to variable response rates they then weight the data to further bring it into line with national demographics.

YouGov have been using the methods for a while and rate pretty highly in the pollster stakes. ICM are (imho) the best but YouGov are good.

Yes. Representative sample groups from demographics. Do you think they survey every single person from that demographic (which happens to always be "internet users who volunteer themselves for the site") or they get a specific amount, perhaps by random?

It's good that as presumably two fellow YouGov panel members we could clear up this misunderstanding. :-)

Can you try rephrasing this? All I can get is that it appears you're desperate to try and do that annoying LIBERALS!!! thing people love to do and that maybe you're saying the Soviets were scared of East Germany uniting with the much larger and stronger West Germany for the opposite reason you were and because of what actually happened.

What I'm saying is that her reasoning was completely and utterly justified whether you agree with her opinion or not.

Why? All the Western leaders except her disagreement with her assessment, and you seem to believe that all the Eastern ones did too. So how is it justified when it had little to no chance of happening?

[Alyakia]

Reasoning was so justified most Western leaders agreed with her.

Wait.

She had reasons to believe what she believed, much like most Western leaders believed what they believed for other reasons. I don't see why that makes her a bad politician.

She also had reasons for every other shitty decision she made. Pretty much everyone has reasons for every shitty belief they have. That doesn't mean their reasons aren't completely wrong and utter bullshit.

[Polkopia]

She had reasons to believe what she believed, much like most Western leaders believed what they believed for other reasons. I don't see why that makes her a bad politician.

She also had reasons for every other shitty decision she made. Pretty much everyone has reasons for every shitty belief they have. That doesn't mean their reasons aren't completely wrong and utter bullshit.

Every other decision? Please, back up your claim.

[Alyakia]

She also had reasons for every other shitty decision she made. Pretty much everyone has reasons for every shitty belief they have. That doesn't mean their reasons aren't completely wrong and utter bullshit.

Every other decision? Please, back up your claim.

I said every other shitty decision, not every decision. I think the reasons behind "No, please don't arrest my good friend Pinochet!", "We must train the Khmer Rouge" and "Let's arm the genocidal dictator!" are self-evidently shitty.

Otherwise yes, people have reasons for the things they do!

[Polkopia]

Every other decision? Please, back up your claim.

I said every other shitty decision, not every decision. I think the reasons behind "No, please don't arrest my good friend Pinochet!", "We must train the Khmer Rouge" and "Let's arm the genocidal dictator!" are self-evidently shitty.

Otherwise yes, people have reasons for the things they do!

Right, but you're acting like all politicians in the Western world are all perfect in the sense that they have never made poor decisions, and Thatcher is shit compared to everyone else because of a couple reasons. Seems like you only hate her because of the trade unions, and the dictator ordeal. Heck, even the USA assisted certain Middle East nations who we now despise.

Also, once again, you point to her bad decisions rather than realizing what good she did for her own country.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Well at least now we know the old hag isn't a zombie. Means I can dance on her grave without fear of having my gnads ripped off by her claw hand.

[The UK in Exile]

I said every other shitty decision, not every decision. I think the reasons behind "No, please don't arrest my good friend Pinochet!", "We must train the Khmer Rouge" and "Let's arm the genocidal dictator!" are self-evidently shitty.

Otherwise yes, people have reasons for the things they do!

Right, but you're acting like all politicians in the Western world are all perfect in the sense that they have never made poor decisions, and Thatcher is shit compared to everyone else because of a couple reasons. Seems like you only hate her because of the trade unions, and the dictator ordeal. Heck, even the USA assisted certain Middle East nations who we now despise.

Also, once again, you point to her bad decisions rather than realizing what good she did for her own country.

fixed.

John Hinckley?

Is it wrong that I laughed?

naahhh.

[Priory Academy USSR]

Right, but you're acting like all politicians in the Western world are all perfect in the sense that they have never made poor decisions, and Thatcher is shit compared to everyone else because of a couple reasons. Seems like you only hate her because of the trade unions, and the dictator ordeal. Heck, even the USA assisted certain Middle East nations who we now despise.

Also, once again, you point to her bad decisions rather than realizing what good she did for her own country.

fixed.

What the fuck did Lincolnshire do to you?

[Forsakia]

Yes, very really.

YouGov don't go for random selections, they select representative sample groups from their panel based on demographics and survey them. Due to variable response rates they then weight the data to further bring it into line with national demographics.

YouGov have been using the methods for a while and rate pretty highly in the pollster stakes. ICM are (imho) the best but YouGov are good.

Yes. Representative sample groups from demographics. Do you think they survey every single person from that demographic (which happens to always be "internet users who volunteer themselves for the site") or they get a specific amount, perhaps by random?

It's good that as presumably two fellow YouGov panel members we could clear up this misunderstanding. :-)

They have a large database of people and from that select a sample to contact. Not all will reply of course and so they take the responses they do get and weight them to get back in line with the demographics (on the data you can see the unweighted sample and what it was weighted to).

I'm technically still a member of the YouGov panel, but I stopped answering surveys a while back (they turned me down for a job, not unreasonably but I was feeling petty). I'm something of a polling nerd (if you couldn't tell) and blog a little about it and wander round political opinion polling focused forums.

In terms of the self-selection, that's long concerned people. But YouGov have posted pretty accurate results using it (although at the last GE pretty much all the pollsters got thrown off a bit by Cleggmania) and that answered a lot of criticism.

[Polkopia]

Right, but you're acting like all politicians in the Western world are all perfect in the sense that they have never made poor decisions, and Thatcher is shit compared to everyone else because of a couple reasons. Seems like you only hate her because of the trade unions, and the dictator ordeal. Heck, even the USA assisted certain Middle East nations who we now despise.

Also, once again, you point to her bad decisions rather than realizing what good she did for her own country.

fixed.

Nah. I had it right the first time, but thank you for your input.

[Napkiraly]

Right, but you're acting like all politicians in the Western world are all perfect in the sense that they have never made poor decisions,

Strawman arguments are cool.

and Thatcher is shit compared to everyone else because of a couple reasons.

Shit compared to whom exactly? Attlee? Blair? Cameron? Gladstone?

Seems like you only hate her because of the trade unions, and the dictator ordeal.

She has given many arguments as to why Thatcher wasn't so great. It is not all about the unions or the support for dictatorships.

Heck, even the USA assisted certain Middle East nations who we now despise.

That somehow makes supporting two genocidal regimes okay how exactly?

Also, once again, you point to her bad decisions rather than realizing what good she did for her own country.

Because perhaps people feel she did more bad than good and so that's how people should look back on it?

[Alyakia]

I said every other shitty decision, not every decision. I think the reasons behind "No, please don't arrest my good friend Pinochet!", "We must train the Khmer Rouge" and "Let's arm the genocidal dictator!" are self-evidently shitty.

Otherwise yes, people have reasons for the things they do!

Right, but you're acting like all politicians in the Western world are all perfect in the sense that they have never made poor decisions, and Thatcher is shit compared to everyone else because of a couple reasons. Seems like you only hate her because of the trade unions, and the dictator ordeal. Heck, even the USA assisted certain Middle East nations who we now despise.

Also, once again, you point to her bad decisions rather than realizing what good she did for her own country.

What good she did? She sold off massive blocks of social housing (1/3 of which are now in the hands of private landlords) and now we wonder why we can't get a fucking house. She got us Section 28. She old off our national services (yes, even the profitable ones. right now the government intends to privatize Royal Mail if its finances continue to improve) for a quick buck and now the trains are a mess, people freeze to death in their homes while energy companies make profits and raise their prices simultaneously. She wrecked entire communities with no plan for what would happen after (even if you think it needed to happen, a horrible way of doing it) and now we wonder why we're still suffering poverty and unemployment there. We get to live under the glorious reign of the financial sector and deregulation, which is in no way responsible for the current crisis.

Now we have a successive line of governments in her legacy fucking shit even more. We have a lower life expectancy than the fucking Gaza strip. Show me the good.

And oh please, wah every other leader makes mistakes too. What a pathetic defence. Yes, I hate that she enabled genocide. And you do not get to put that down to just a wee mistake. Are you saying she shouldn't be hated for that?

Yes, the USA helped Iran, the Shah etc. and is now in be with Saudi Arabia. I fail to see the relevance unless you want us to hate them too. That won't make Thatcher helping out genocide in East Timor look good.

[The UK in Exile]

fixed.

Nah. I had it right the first time, but thank you for your input.

I think the street parties people are throwing rather conclusively disprove your belief she helped the country. she helped parts of it.

[Alyakia]

Nah. I had it right the first time, but thank you for your input.

I think the street parties people are throwing rather conclusively disprove your belief she helped the country. she helped parts of it.

When she was in power, people rioted on the streets. When she died, they partied in the streets. But let's not forget the good!

[Polkopia]

and Thatcher is shit compared to everyone else because of a couple reasons.

Shit compared to whom exactly? Attlee? Blair? Cameron? Gladstone?

The other Western politicians with, Reagan as an exception.

Seems like you only hate her because of the trade unions, and the dictator ordeal.

She has given many arguments as to why Thatcher wasn't so great. It is not all about the unions or the support for dictatorships.

No, but it seems to be the majority of her argument. She still has yet to acknowledge the good things that she has done for her nation, and chooses to look at the bad instead.

Heck, even the USA assisted certain Middle East nations who we now despise.

That somehow makes supporting two genocidal regimes okay how exactly?

Don't put words in my mouth. By that, I meant that others have done it as well, so do not blame one politician on a mistake that many others have made.

Also, once again, you point to her bad decisions rather than realizing what good she did for her own country.

Because perhaps people liberals feel she did more bad than good and so that's how people should look back on it?

Fixed.

[Polkopia]

I think the street parties people are throwing rather conclusively disprove your belief she helped the country. she helped parts of it.

When she was in power, people rioted on the streets. When she died, they partied in the streets. But let's not forget the good!

People will do the same with Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc.. People have done the same with FDR as well, but we look back on him as a good president, no?

[Priory Academy USSR]

When she was in power, people rioted on the streets. When she died, they partied in the streets. But let's not forget the good!

People will do the same with Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc.. People have done the same with FDR as well, but we look back on him as a good president, no?

No US President was ever particularly hated, at least compared to Northern anti-Thatcher hate.

[The UK in Exile]

When she was in power, people rioted on the streets. When she died, they partied in the streets. But let's not forget the good!

People will do the same with Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc.. People have done the same with FDR as well, but we look back on him as a good president, no?

people didn't.

[Alyakia]

When she was in power, people rioted on the streets. When she died, they partied in the streets. But let's not forget the good!

People will do the same with Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc.. People have done the same with FDR as well, but we look back on him as a good president, no?

When John Major dies, will we be partying in the streets? The answer is no.

Please don't miss my further up post either.

[Polkopia]

People will do the same with Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc.. People have done the same with FDR as well, but we look back on him as a good president, no?

No US President was ever particularly hated, at least compared to Northern anti-Thatcher hate.

I'm pretty sure Abraham Lincoln was hated by a pretty large percent of the US population...

[Priory Academy USSR]

No US President was ever particularly hated, at least compared to Northern anti-Thatcher hate.

I'm pretty sure Abraham Lincoln was hated by a pretty large percent of the US population...

OK then, so the only US President hated on the same level as Margaret Thatcher was one who invaded the haters and likely killed a few members of their family, and then occupied their land by military force for a few years. Tells you a lot about her.

[The UK in Exile]

No US President was ever particularly hated, at least compared to Northern anti-Thatcher hate.

I'm pretty sure Abraham Lincoln was hated by a pretty large percent of the US population...

true, but then I don't think anyone is arguing that Sherman's march to the sea was a good thing for the people of Georgia, and that they should be grateful for it.