Would you date a trans person?

[Maurepas]

If I weren't already engaged to a wonderful woman, and I and a trans-woman hit it off, I'd probably give it a shot.

[Zweite Alaje]

No, it isn't.

That's about as natural as genetic manipulation and cloning.

Well, I guess we have to throw out all those words we got from Shakespeare then...

It's a shame, I really liked some of them.

Fine with me.

[Samuraikoku]

Well, I guess we have to throw out all those words we got from Shakespeare then...

It's a shame, I really liked some of them.

Fine with me.

You're a linguist! Y U H8 LANGUAGE?

[Fine Fellows]

I would and have before.

/resident conservative and VERY religious anarchist.

A conservative anarchist? That's a new one to me. Similar to (modern US) Libertarianism?

[Aghny]

While i don't have anything in articular against such individuals, i won't date one.

[Nailed to the Perch]

So, anyway, let's try to put this thread back on course. I think we've beaten the whole pronoun thing to death.

Why do you guys think women are generally more accepting of trans men than guys are of trans women?

I don't know that we can conclude that based solely on one poll on NSG, but assuming it's true for the moment, for the sake of argument:

Patriarchy.

Yes, I know, people are going to be all "lol feminists blaming everything on the patriarchy," but this is one of those cases where the hierarchical structure of gender in our society is one hell of a clear explanation. If masculinity is valued above femininity (as it unambiguously is), then it makes a lot of sense that men would be significantly more leery of anything they feel might "feminize" themselves than women would be of anything that might "masculinize" them. "If I touch someone who used to have a penis, I might magically turn GAY and then I'd be all GIRLY!" is a real (albeit stupid) fear for many guys in a way that doesn't really have an equivalent for women, because turning "manly," while stigmatized insofar as any breaking of gender boundaries is stigmatized, is still, on some level, aspirational. There's a reason plenty of women will happily identify as "tomboys" but very few men will claim the label "sissy."

[The Blaatschapen]

I changed my mind since last time.

I would be able to date a trans person.

[The Emerald Dawn]

So, anyway, let's try to put this thread back on course. I think we've beaten the whole pronoun thing to death.

Why do you guys think women are generally more accepting of trans men than guys are of trans women?

I don't know that we can conclude that based solely on one poll on NSG, but assuming it's true for the moment, for the sake of argument:

Patriarchy.

Yes, I know, people are going to be all "lol feminists blaming everything on the patriarchy," but this is one of those cases where the hierarchical structure of gender in our society is one hell of a clear explanation. If masculinity is valued above femininity (as it unambiguously is), then it makes a lot of sense that men would be significantly more leery of anything they feel might "feminize" themselves than women would be of anything that might "masculinize" them. "If I touch someone who used to have a penis, I might magically turn GAY and then I'd be all GIRLY!" is a real (albeit stupid) fear for many guys in a way that doesn't really have an equivalent for women, because turning "manly," while stigmatized insofar as any breaking of gender boundaries is stigmatized, is still, on some level, aspirational. There's a reason plenty of women will happily identify as "tomboys" but very few men will claim the label "sissy."

I'm not a feminist, I made this argument a page before you.

Just so everyone's clear:

Feminism? Not a plot. It's logical observations and statistic driven.

[Zweite Alaje]

Fine with me.

You're a linguist! Y U H8 LANGUAGE?

I'm anti-prescriptivist, and anti-gibberish.

[Zohai]

Yes. I already have a boyfriend, however, and so it's not very relevant.

Nope, because i'm not gay or bisexual.

The title didn't say "trans man", it said "trans person".

If you date a trans man it might be more complicated, but you'll still have to be a bit gay. Maybe not fully gay but you're problably somewhat into guys. Despite him being born a woman, as a straight dude I wouldn't do it .

If you date a woman who has a hysterectomy does that make you gay?

obviously not

[Aghny]

So, anyway, let's try to put this thread back on course. I think we've beaten the whole pronoun thing to death.

Why do you guys think women are generally more accepting of trans men than guys are of trans women?

I don't know that we can conclude that based solely on one poll on NSG, but assuming it's true for the moment, for the sake of argument:

Patriarchy.

Yes, I know, people are going to be all "lol feminists blaming everything on the patriarchy," but this is one of those cases where the hierarchical structure of gender in our society is one hell of a clear explanation. If masculinity is valued above femininity (as it unambiguously is), then it makes a lot of sense that men would be significantly more leery of anything they feel might "feminize" themselves than women would be of anything that might "masculinize" them. "If I touch someone who used to have a penis, I might magically turn GAY and then I'd be all GIRLY!" is a real (albeit stupid) fear for many guys in a way that doesn't really have an equivalent for women, because turning "manly," while stigmatized insofar as any breaking of gender boundaries is stigmatized, is still, on some level, aspirational. There's a reason plenty of women will happily identify as "tomboys" but very few men will claim the label "sissy."

I am patriarchal myself, yet i am a bisexual.

[Zweite Alaje]

I would and have before.

/resident conservative and VERY religious anarchist.

A conservative anarchist? That's a new one to me. Similar to (modern US) Libertarianism?

Being anarchist doesn't mean he doesn't have a personal opinion you know.

[The Blaatschapen]

Yes. I already have a boyfriend, however, and so it's not very relevant.



The title didn't say "trans man", it said "trans person".

If you date a trans man it might be more complicated, but you'll still have to be a bit gay. Maybe not fully gay but you're problably somewhat into guys. Despite him being born a woman, as a straight dude I wouldn't do it .

I'm straight and I said that could date a transperson (obviously one with feminine looks).

[Distruzio]

I would and have before.

/resident conservative and VERY religious anarchist.

A conservative anarchist? That's a new one to me. Similar to (modern US) Libertarianism?

More like classical US liberalism or modern European arch-liberalism.

[Samuraikoku]

If you date a trans man it might be more complicated, but you'll still have to be a bit gay. Maybe not fully gay but you're problably somewhat into guys. Despite him being born a woman, as a straight dude I wouldn't do it .

I'm straight and I said that could date a transperson (obviously one with feminine looks).

And so am I.

[Anachronous Rex]

Yes. I already have a boyfriend, however, and so it's not very relevant.



The title didn't say "trans man", it said "trans person".

If you date a trans man it might be more complicated, but you'll still have to be a bit gay. Maybe not fully gay but you're problably somewhat into guys. Despite him being born a woman, as a straight dude I wouldn't do it .

Bullshit.

Don't have to be at all gay to appreciate this:

In fact, being gay would probably work against you.

[The Emerald Dawn]

If you date a trans man it might be more complicated, but you'll still have to be a bit gay. Maybe not fully gay but you're problably somewhat into guys. Despite him being born a woman, as a straight dude I wouldn't do it .

Bullshit.

Don't have to be at all gay to appreciate this:

In fact, being gay would probably work against you.

If it weren't for the man-jaw.

[Anachronous Rex]

Bullshit.

Don't have to be at all gay to appreciate this:

In fact, being gay would probably work against you.

If it weren't for the man-jaw.

Naw, that's just her being German.

[The Blaatschapen]

If it weren't for the man-jaw.

Naw, that's just her being German.

Geil!

[Nailed to the Perch]

I don't know that we can conclude that based solely on one poll on NSG, but assuming it's true for the moment, for the sake of argument:

Patriarchy.

Yes, I know, people are going to be all "lol feminists blaming everything on the patriarchy," but this is one of those cases where the hierarchical structure of gender in our society is one hell of a clear explanation. If masculinity is valued above femininity (as it unambiguously is), then it makes a lot of sense that men would be significantly more leery of anything they feel might "feminize" themselves than women would be of anything that might "masculinize" them. "If I touch someone who used to have a penis, I might magically turn GAY and then I'd be all GIRLY!" is a real (albeit stupid) fear for many guys in a way that doesn't really have an equivalent for women, because turning "manly," while stigmatized insofar as any breaking of gender boundaries is stigmatized, is still, on some level, aspirational. There's a reason plenty of women will happily identify as "tomboys" but very few men will claim the label "sissy."

I'm not a feminist, I made this argument a page before you.

Just so everyone's clear:

Feminism? Not a plot. It's logical observations and statistic driven.

A-yup.

[Ora Amaris]

So, anyway, let's try to put this thread back on course. I think we've beaten the whole pronoun thing to death.

Why do you guys think women are generally more accepting of trans men than guys are of trans women?

I don't know that we can conclude that based solely on one poll on NSG, but assuming it's true for the moment, for the sake of argument:

Patriarchy.

Yes, I know, people are going to be all "lol feminists blaming everything on the patriarchy," but this is one of those cases where the hierarchical structure of gender in our society is one hell of a clear explanation. If masculinity is valued above femininity (as it unambiguously is), then it makes a lot of sense that men would be significantly more leery of anything they feel might "feminize" themselves than women would be of anything that might "masculinize" them. "If I touch someone who used to have a penis, I might magically turn GAY and then I'd be all GIRLY!" is a real (albeit stupid) fear for many guys in a way that doesn't really have an equivalent for women, because turning "manly," while stigmatized insofar as any breaking of gender boundaries is stigmatized, is still, on some level, aspirational. There's a reason plenty of women will happily identify as "tomboys" but very few men will claim the label "sissy."

That is a fantastic explanation.
That's probably why transwomen face more stigma than transmen as well.

[The Emerald Dawn]

I don't know that we can conclude that based solely on one poll on NSG, but assuming it's true for the moment, for the sake of argument:

Patriarchy.

Yes, I know, people are going to be all "lol feminists blaming everything on the patriarchy," but this is one of those cases where the hierarchical structure of gender in our society is one hell of a clear explanation. If masculinity is valued above femininity (as it unambiguously is), then it makes a lot of sense that men would be significantly more leery of anything they feel might "feminize" themselves than women would be of anything that might "masculinize" them. "If I touch someone who used to have a penis, I might magically turn GAY and then I'd be all GIRLY!" is a real (albeit stupid) fear for many guys in a way that doesn't really have an equivalent for women, because turning "manly," while stigmatized insofar as any breaking of gender boundaries is stigmatized, is still, on some level, aspirational. There's a reason plenty of women will happily identify as "tomboys" but very few men will claim the label "sissy."

That is a fantastic explanation.
That's probably why transwomen face more stigma than transmen as well.

You're moving from one social-strata to a lower/higher one. It *is* why they face more stigma.

[Zweite Alaje]

I don't know that we can conclude that based solely on one poll on NSG, but assuming it's true for the moment, for the sake of argument:

Patriarchy.

Yes, I know, people are going to be all "lol feminists blaming everything on the patriarchy," but this is one of those cases where the hierarchical structure of gender in our society is one hell of a clear explanation. If masculinity is valued above femininity (as it unambiguously is), then it makes a lot of sense that men would be significantly more leery of anything they feel might "feminize" themselves than women would be of anything that might "masculinize" them. "If I touch someone who used to have a penis, I might magically turn GAY and then I'd be all GIRLY!" is a real (albeit stupid) fear for many guys in a way that doesn't really have an equivalent for women, because turning "manly," while stigmatized insofar as any breaking of gender boundaries is stigmatized, is still, on some level, aspirational. There's a reason plenty of women will happily identify as "tomboys" but very few men will claim the label "sissy."

That is a fantastic explanation.
That's probably why transwomen face more stigma than transmen as well.

Here we go with this again....

There a social problem? PATRIARCHY TEH EBUL MEN!!!

[Nailed to the Perch]

Yes. I already have a boyfriend, however, and so it's not very relevant.



The title didn't say "trans man", it said "trans person".

If you date a trans man it might be more complicated, but you'll still have to be a bit gay.

Yeah, no, you really wouldn't. Trans men are men. Trans women are women. Someone can be solely and exclusively into men and fall for a trans man, because he's a man.

[Anachronous Rex]

That is a fantastic explanation.
That's probably why transwomen face more stigma than transmen as well.

Here we go with this again....

There a social problem? PATRIARCHY TEH EBUL MEN!!!

Patriarchy hurts men too.