Margaret Thatcher is Dead

[Fulflood]

Let's assume that the job of a government is to make its citizens happy and fulfilled as opposed to making some GDP numbers go up. In this case, your point fails to stand.

Keeping the people happy by throwing money at them from the government coffers is not a good long-term plan.

Why?

[Hippostania]

If it wasn't inefficient, why did the coal mines have to close immidiately after Thatcher cut govenrment subsidies to the coal industry? If coal industry in the UK is still efficient, why are mines being constantly closed as "inefficient"?

They are actually reopening collieries thanks to new tech. If you want an opinion of her administration and it's effevts on the country as a whole you really need to listen to the opinions of Brits who've had to live with the fallout of her policies.

Source on this? From what I've heard, even the last largest coal mines like Maltby and Daw Mill are slowly being closed down.

[Mike the Progressive]

RIP

[Calimera II]

Country's economy certainly didn't need it as shown by 130% increased GDP per capita, which is higher than French and same level as Germans.

increased gdp per capita, huge unemployment, inflation and general unrest.

Inflation was caused by the previous government. Margaret brought inflation back to around 7%.


Weeheeee 1000th post

[Radiatia]

At the moment that only anti-Thatcher arguments that I'm really willing to accept are a) There were job losses as a result of her reforms

I don't understand this.

Everyone here keep complaining about the fact that Lady Thatcher stopped funding inefficient government companies. I'm especially referring to the coal industry in Northern England, which was already suffering and on the brink of collapse as it simply wasn't profitable anymore. What else could have been done? Should shoveling taxpayers' money to these inefficient government companies should've continued, regardless of their economic situation?

Yep, that's a completely fair point.

However, the argument used by these people, which I will let them have, is that Thatcher - who saw that these industries were uncompetitive in the market - took measures that essentially shut these industries down and forced thousands, perhaps millions oout of work.

Now, I'd still argue that this is temporary, and there always comes a time when you have to jump out of a sinking ship, just as the US no longer relies on the cotton industry, but nevertheless millions of people were affected by this, and I will at no point attempt to deny that there was temporary suffering, where the anger stems from.

[Ardboe Eire]

Ding Dong, the witch is dead.

Terrible, Terrible Prime-Minister, Horrible Woman.


But I do not know weather to extend my condolences, so at this current time, regrettably no.


Or maybe yes, I do not know.

Maggie Thatcher the Milk Snatcher
I looked up this quote that I remember:

"She's the biggest bastard we have ever known"
Danny Morrison on Margaret Thatcher.

[Heavenly Peace]

Keeping the people happy by throwing money at them from the government coffers is not a good long-term plan.

Why?

Because eventually the government runs out of other people's money to spend.

[Calimera II]

Keeping the people happy by throwing money at them from the government coffers is not a good long-term plan.

Why?

It doesn't help the competitiveness of a nation, it makes people lazy.

[Hippostania]

Keeping the people happy by throwing money at them from the government coffers is not a good long-term plan.

Why?

If I had more room in my signature, I'd really put that quote in my signature.

What happens when the companies become more and more inefficient and you have to shovel more and more money to keep them afloat? Raise taxes?

[Glasgia]

You don't know what it was like. My grandparents worked down the mines and in metal factories for over 12 hours a day for pretty much minimum wages and a house with no heating and 5 kids to feed. Then thatcher comes along and takes even more of their money to give to the rich and puts most of them out of their jobs. If your American you have no right to tell me thatcher deserves respect. If your a Brit then your the most stupid and ignorant posh twat I've ever heard.

An appeal to emotion is a poor argument. The fact remains that the government was using our money to prop up failing industries for the benefit of a minority.

NOT A MINORITY! You seem to think most people liked Thatcher's policies. She got a second term thanks to a war. People always bond to the government in war. She got a third term thanks to weak opposition campaigning. The fact is, the majority didn't benefit. They just played along with "better the devil you know than the devil you don't"

[Dreadful Sagittarius]

Certainly a good PM.
Fucked a little around with the Malvinas etc. But still better than Cameron. Horrible..

Defending the Falklands from the Argentinian aggressive imperialism is the one thing I will gladly give to her credit.

[Middleton St George]

Requiem Aeternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetuae luceat eis. Requiescant in pace.

[The God-Realm]

Yay!

Uh.... my condolences.

[South Kebabistan]

You don't know what it was like. My grandparents worked down the mines and in metal factories for over 12 hours a day for pretty much minimum wages and a house with no heating and 5 kids to feed. Then thatcher comes along and takes even more of their money to give to the rich and puts most of them out of their jobs. If your American you have no right to tell me thatcher deserves respect. If your a Brit then your the most stupid and ignorant posh twat I've ever heard.

An appeal to emotion is a poor argument. The fact remains that the government was using our money to prop up failing industries for the benefit of a minority.

And which 'failing industries' were these? Because here in the industrial heartland of the UK, the east mids, I don't remember anyone getting many improvements, just a bigger class divide.
And they certainly didn't help any minorities, unless you count the top 1% richest people to be a minority group.

[Great Nepal]

Country's economy certainly didn't need it as shown by 130% increased GDP per capita, which is higher than French and same level as Germans.

increased gdp per capita, huge unemployment, inflation and general unrest.

Inflation decreased by 4% over her time in office and unemployment increased by just 2% over her reign, which is frankly not unacceptable.

[The God-Realm]

Certainly a good PM.
Fucked a little around with the Malvinas etc. But still better than Cameron. Horrible..

Defending the Falklands from the Argentinian aggressive imperialism is the one thing I will gladly give to her credit.

[San Leggera]

This quote on the matter from Reddit does her legacy justice, don't you think?

[Heavenly Peace]

An appeal to emotion is a poor argument. The fact remains that the government was using our money to prop up failing industries for the benefit of a minority.

NOT A MINORITY! You seem to think most people liked Thatcher's policies. She got a second term thanks to a war. People always bond to the government in war. She got a third term thanks to weak opposition campaigning. The fact is, the majority didn't benefit. They just played along with "better the devil you know than the devil you don't"

I am not talking about whether they liked her polices or not or how she won elections. I was saying that I see no reason why the British taxpayer should have to subsidize failing business in order to benefit a relative minority.

[Imperium of Tanith]

Only saying RIP because the last thing we need is for her to be haunting us. <_<

But yeah, one of the worst PM's in British history, and a crazier familly than the Palins to boot.

[Forsakia]

Bear with me, I'll go digging.

Thanks Forsakia! Appreciated

Right,the list of polling is here.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-1979-1983

Argentina invaded Falklands at start of April 1982.

Essentially she hit the mid-twenties at the end of 1981 and by March 1982 had risen back into the mid-thirties.

As an example this article (behind a paywall but you can see the abstract) http://tinyurl.com/bvvum4m points to people's improving personal economic expectation as indicating an increase anyway (and the question is generally not where the Falkland islands had an effect, but whether the ratings would have improved anyway).

(That article is a bit old, but makes the essential argument and came up first on the search. There was a continuing series of back and forth critical articles about the best statistical techniques to use etc if you're interested and have access.

[Hippostania]

My county was a whole lot less profitable afterwards, you muppet!
it still has one of the highest unemployent rates in britain.

What is your point? What do you think should've been done?

Should the government have continued to spend taxpayers' money to prop up inefficient coal companies that were going to collapse eventually anyway? Just like cotton in the South, coal in North of England had to go.

[Priory Academy USSR]

I don't understand this.

Everyone here keep complaining about the fact that Lady Thatcher stopped funding inefficient government companies. I'm especially referring to the coal industry in Northern England, which was already suffering and on the brink of collapse as it simply wasn't profitable anymore. What else could have been done? Should shoveling taxpayers' money to these inefficient government companies should've continued, regardless of their economic situation?

Yep, that's a completely fair point.

However, the argument used by these people, which I will let them have, is that Thatcher - who saw that these industries were uncompetitive in the market - took measures that essentially shut these industries down and forced thousands, perhaps millions oout of work.

Now, I'd still argue that this is temporary, and there always comes a time when you have to jump out of a sinking ship, just as the US no longer relies on the cotton industry, but nevertheless millions of people were affected by this, and I will at no point attempt to deny that there was temporary suffering, where the anger stems from.

The main problem was that she pretty much just abandoned the north after killing off the coal. Even if it was a necessary step, she failed to do anything for those out of work, and ironically probably created the 'welfare culture' the Conservatives moan about today.

[Glasgia]

Certainly a good PM.
Fucked a little around with the Malvinas etc. But still better than Cameron. Horrible..

Defending the Falklands from the Argentinian aggressive imperialism is the one thing I will gladly give to her credit.

Seconded. However, I don't think that was her personal decision, even if she had the power to stop it.

[Fulflood]

Why?

If I had more room in my signature, I'd really put that quote in my signature.

What happens when the companies become more and more inefficient and you have to shovel more and more money to keep them afloat? Raise taxes?

Who mentioned companies?

Oh and if I had space:

This is a glorious day for all Venezuelans, and I can only imagine their joy right now. The tyrant is dead, and hopefully this will mean the return of democracy to Venezuela. Perhaps without a central figure, Chavez's corrupt party of commies and criminal goons will disappear into the dustbin of history.

Seriously, I feel so happy for the Venezuelan people right now. After over a decade of tyranny, it's finally over. Even though I'm an atheist, I truly hope that Chavez is burning in hell right now for his crimes.

I really can't describe the sorrow and sadness I am experiencing right now. This all seems so unreal, I can't really accept that she's gone.

She truly deserves the title of the greatest prime minister in the history of the United Kingdom. She was a vital partner in crushing socialism in Eastern Bloc, got rid of regulations, inefficient government-owned companies and brought the British people the economic freedom they had been deprived of for decades. She brought the British people untold amounts of prosperity and freedom, and now she's gone. First Reagan, now Thatcher... Why must all the good ones go?

Nevertheless, she lived a good life and even though I don't believe in afterlife, I truly hope that she is in a better place now. And before any of you disrespectful, idiotic left-wing goons start dancing on the poor woman's grave, I urge you to shut the fuck up and show some respect. A person is dead and that's supposed to be a sad thing, no matter what your political orientation is. Even if you don't agree with her policies, the least you can do is be quiet.

Regardless, condolences to her family and friends. RIP Margaret Thatcher, the greatest prime minister in the history of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

[Hornesia]

Say what you want about her. I personally liked the way she did things. Just don't rejoice as someone's death.