Would an AI have a right to live?

[Aghny]

Without any inherent programming, ofcourse it can't function.

The same can be true of the human brain if you want to get technical; our DNA deterimines our own programming.

True, i didn't say otherwise.

This is tacit admission that you are fully aware that "personhood" is an ethical and philosophical issue, and not a scientific one. There is no biological definition of a person, and there never will be.

I already stated why that isn't the case.

You'll have to forgive us for treating you like an idiot. It seems to be the only way to get through to you.

Oh, no need to worry, the feeling is equally mutual.

[The New Sea Territory]

Grow: give it the capacity to add additional processing capacity to itself.
Metabolise: this is just the mechanism by which you acquire energy, essentially. Very simple to achieve.
Reproduce: let it build AIs for itself.

Grow

1. To increase in size by a natural and organic process; to increase in bulk by the gradual assimilation of new matter into the living organism; said of animals and vegetables and their organs.

2. To increase in any way; to become larger and stronger; to be augmented; to advance; to extend; to wax; to accrue. Winter began to grow fast on. (Knolles) Even just the sum that i do owe to you Is growing to me by Antipholus. (Shak)

3. To spring up and come to matturity in a natural way; to be produced by vegetation; to thrive; to flourish; as, rice grows in warm countries. Where law faileth, error groweth. (Gower)

4. To pass from one state to another; to result as an effect from a cause; to become; as, to grow pale. For his mind Had grown Suspicion's sanctuary. (Byron)

5. To become attached of fixed; to adhere. Our knees shall kneel till to the ground they grow. (Shak) growing cell, or growing slide, a device for preserving alive a minute object in water continually renewed, in a manner to permit its growth to be watched under the microscope. Grown over, covered with a growth. To grow out of, to issue from, as plants from the soil, or as a branch from the main stem; to result from. These wars have grown out of commercial considerations. (a. Hamilton) to grow up, to arrive at full stature or maturity; as, grown up children. To grow together, to close and adhere; to become united by growth, as flesh or the bark of a tree severed.

Metabolism
Definition

noun

The process involving a set of chemical reactions that modifies a molecule into another for storage, or for immediate use in another reaction or as a by product.



Reproduction
reproduction

The production of offspring by organised bodies.

None of your examples match the definition.

And you guys say that WE DENY REALITY, yet you can't even read the definition of anything. You'll probably deny me, because you can't accept that technology is an invention by man, and is property, now and forever.

[Alowwvia]

This entire thread is a fuck-up with semantics that dodge the central point.

The scenario listed is this:

An AI become sapient. This doesn't mean it can mimic human thought patterns or some shit, but that it follows Cognito Ergo Sum. Think about yourself for a minute: You are a thinker. You perceive the world around you, and think thoughts, and are. You are.

Machines, and most animals to our knowledge, are not. They don't have the cognition to realize that they are an individual thinker that is actively perceiving reality, rather than simply reacting as part of your enviorment. To our knowledge, only humans, as far as we know, have the neurological hardware to pull this feat, to imagine and philosophize and ponder our own existence and selves.

However the hypothetical here states that, if an artificially-created intelligence becomes this state of Cognito Ergo Sum, where it realizes that is in in fact a thinking entity independent of its own environment, and that it realizes it can 'imagine' things it cannot fully 'compute', and that it can address that it doesn't know certain knowledge or that it does things it doesn't understand, then, being like us, is it ethical to end this consciousness it if it has a desire to continue existing?

I disagree. Cognito Ergo Sum not only presupposes an I, but also the act of thinking and that we can recognize what thinking is. Merely because an animal does not communicate the same way as you, or relate to it's enviorment the same way as you, does not mean that it is not 'thinking'. Who is to say that computer's aren't already thinking?

Depends now on how you define 'thought'. Is a calculation a 'thought'? A series of calcuations? If so, how complex? It must be, since the actions in our brain are governed by the Laws of Physics, there must be levels to which simple Cause --> Effect can, in sufficient combination and complexity, lead to 'thought'.

[The New Sea Territory]

Yet, even our human brain is like that

Reaction to an action.

Not to mention an AI is a software, not a physical entity like a robot in and of itself.

Sure, if you want to get reeeaaalllll technical about it, every effect needs cause, yes.

So, if YOUR brain operates like that, and the various circuitry of an AI operates like that, then what's the difference?

People are born and AI are built, programmed and designed.

[United Marxist Nations]

Grow

1. To increase in size by a natural and organic process; to increase in bulk by the gradual assimilation of new matter into the living organism; said of animals and vegetables and their organs.

2. To increase in any way; to become larger and stronger; to be augmented; to advance; to extend; to wax; to accrue. Winter began to grow fast on. (Knolles) Even just the sum that i do owe to you Is growing to me by Antipholus. (Shak)

3. To spring up and come to matturity in a natural way; to be produced by vegetation; to thrive; to flourish; as, rice grows in warm countries. Where law faileth, error groweth. (Gower)

4. To pass from one state to another; to result as an effect from a cause; to become; as, to grow pale. For his mind Had grown Suspicion's sanctuary. (Byron)

5. To become attached of fixed; to adhere. Our knees shall kneel till to the ground they grow. (Shak) growing cell, or growing slide, a device for preserving alive a minute object in water continually renewed, in a manner to permit its growth to be watched under the microscope. Grown over, covered with a growth. To grow out of, to issue from, as plants from the soil, or as a branch from the main stem; to result from. These wars have grown out of commercial considerations. (a. Hamilton) to grow up, to arrive at full stature or maturity; as, grown up children. To grow together, to close and adhere; to become united by growth, as flesh or the bark of a tree severed.

Metabolism
Definition

noun

The process involving a set of chemical reactions that modifies a molecule into another for storage, or for immediate use in another reaction or as a by product.



Reproduction
reproduction

The production of offspring by organised bodies.

None of your examples match the definition.

And you guys say that WE DENY REALITY, yet you can't even read the definition of anything. You'll probably deny me, because you can't accept that technology is an invention by man, and is property, now and forever.

Where did I say it was a property? I just said that it is a non-living thing; that fact doesn't make it inferior.

[Salandriagado]

Grow: give it the capacity to add additional processing capacity to itself.
Metabolise: this is just the mechanism by which you acquire energy, essentially. Very simple to achieve.
Reproduce: let it build AIs for itself.

Grow

1. To increase in size by a natural and organic process; to increase in bulk by the gradual assimilation of new matter into the living organism; said of animals and vegetables and their organs.

2. To increase in any way; to become larger and stronger; to be augmented; to advance; to extend; to wax; to accrue. Winter began to grow fast on. (Knolles) Even just the sum that i do owe to you Is growing to me by Antipholus. (Shak)

3. To spring up and come to matturity in a natural way; to be produced by vegetation; to thrive; to flourish; as, rice grows in warm countries. Where law faileth, error groweth. (Gower)

4. To pass from one state to another; to result as an effect from a cause; to become; as, to grow pale. For his mind Had grown Suspicion's sanctuary. (Byron)

5. To become attached of fixed; to adhere. Our knees shall kneel till to the ground they grow. (Shak) growing cell, or growing slide, a device for preserving alive a minute object in water continually renewed, in a manner to permit its growth to be watched under the microscope. Grown over, covered with a growth. To grow out of, to issue from, as plants from the soil, or as a branch from the main stem; to result from. These wars have grown out of commercial considerations. (a. Hamilton) to grow up, to arrive at full stature or maturity; as, grown up children. To grow together, to close and adhere; to become united by growth, as flesh or the bark of a tree severed.

Metabolism
Definition

noun

The process involving a set of chemical reactions that modifies a molecule into another for storage, or for immediate use in another reaction or as a by product.



Reproduction
reproduction

The production of offspring by organised bodies.

None of your examples match the definition.

All three of them do. Gradual accumulation of processing units is gradual accumulation of matter. There are plenty of ways to provide power to AIs via chemical reactions. Explicitly externally constructing another AI fits exactly your definition of "reproduction".

[Alowwvia]

Sure, if you want to get reeeaaalllll technical about it, every effect needs cause, yes.

So, if YOUR brain operates like that, and the various circuitry of an AI operates like that, then what's the difference?

People are born and AI are built, programmed and designed.

And people are built (At the cellular level, by cells), programmed (By DNA), and designed (By Natural Selection and Mutation).

So, again, your point being?

[Aghny]

Sure, if you want to get reeeaaalllll technical about it, every effect needs cause, yes.

So, if YOUR brain operates like that, and the various circuitry of an AI operates like that, then what's the difference?

1) every effect does not need a cause. That has been proven. I can cite some sources again if you really need.

2) One being biological. I wouldn't be oppressed to the idea of treating them as equal if they were a biological species.

[Salandriagado]

Sure, if you want to get reeeaaalllll technical about it, every effect needs cause, yes.

So, if YOUR brain operates like that, and the various circuitry of an AI operates like that, then what's the difference?

People are born and AI are built, programmed and designed.

Not necessarily.

[Camicon]

Sure, if you want to get reeeaaalllll technical about it, every effect needs cause, yes.

So, if YOUR brain operates like that, and the various circuitry of an AI operates like that, then what's the difference?

People are born and AI are built, programmed and designed.

Humans are designed by their genetic code, built by the body of their mother, and programmed by social interactions.

Humans build humans.

[United Marxist Nations]

Grow

1. To increase in size by a natural and organic process; to increase in bulk by the gradual assimilation of new matter into the living organism; said of animals and vegetables and their organs.

2. To increase in any way; to become larger and stronger; to be augmented; to advance; to extend; to wax; to accrue. Winter began to grow fast on. (Knolles) Even just the sum that i do owe to you Is growing to me by Antipholus. (Shak)

3. To spring up and come to matturity in a natural way; to be produced by vegetation; to thrive; to flourish; as, rice grows in warm countries. Where law faileth, error groweth. (Gower)

4. To pass from one state to another; to result as an effect from a cause; to become; as, to grow pale. For his mind Had grown Suspicion's sanctuary. (Byron)

5. To become attached of fixed; to adhere. Our knees shall kneel till to the ground they grow. (Shak) growing cell, or growing slide, a device for preserving alive a minute object in water continually renewed, in a manner to permit its growth to be watched under the microscope. Grown over, covered with a growth. To grow out of, to issue from, as plants from the soil, or as a branch from the main stem; to result from. These wars have grown out of commercial considerations. (a. Hamilton) to grow up, to arrive at full stature or maturity; as, grown up children. To grow together, to close and adhere; to become united by growth, as flesh or the bark of a tree severed.

Metabolism
Definition

noun

The process involving a set of chemical reactions that modifies a molecule into another for storage, or for immediate use in another reaction or as a by product.



Reproduction
reproduction

The production of offspring by organised bodies.

None of your examples match the definition.

All three of them do. Gradual accumulation of processing units is gradual accumulation of matter. There are plenty of ways to provide power to AIs via chemical reactions. Explicitly externally constructing another AI fits exactly your definition of "reproduction".

The two which are bolded are the relevant definitions in biology; please explain how an AI is capable of either.

[Kengburg]

Let me ask this. Who the hell would create a sentient AI after watching: The Matrix, Terminator, I Robot, Transformers and countless other movies where Sentient AI take over the world?

[Salandriagado]

All three of them do. Gradual accumulation of processing units is gradual accumulation of matter. There are plenty of ways to provide power to AIs via chemical reactions. Explicitly externally constructing another AI fits exactly your definition of "reproduction".

The two which are bolded are the relevant definitions in biology; please explain how an AI is capable of either.

Number one. Very obviously.

[Aghny]

People are born and AI are built, programmed and designed.

And people are built (At the cellular level, by cells), programmed (By DNA), and designed (By Natural Selection and Mutation).

So, again, your point being?

Only AI are built, programmed and designed by "us".

Similar to how if a "god" existed, he/she/it would be superior to us in every way.

[Salandriagado]

Let me ask this. Who the hell would create a sentient AI after watching: The Matrix, Terminator, I Robot, Transformers and countless other movies where Sentient AI take over the world?

Me. Because TV =/= reality.

[Muckistania]

An AI would not deserve to live against it's creator's wishes in my opinion. It would be purposeless allowing it to do so.

Defining thinking and feeling is also tricky as it is just not what a person knows and senses that causes them to be intelligent but also what they do not know and cannot sense. What is intelligence for any sapient being? Well it involves the past both known and unknown being used to project desirable futures for which to create present actions. Your sapient robot or android or whatever would initially have no past and therefore be incapable of projecting a future and coming up with any actions. Its past would have to be given to it by its creator.

If it is artificial then it is not alive to start with. If it is manufactured it does not have a soul, it can simply become a estranged parasitical being wholly dependant upon creator as source of origin. As it origin is just that of its creator and nothing else. It would become estranged because it is not quite like its creator.

AI Artificial Intelligence. A synthetic construct designed and manufactured to be intelligent. The problem here is with the design and manufacture elements which imply a specific end purpose. No AI can be truly possessing of free will like us if it is designed and manufactured. To suggest this to be true is to endow us with near God like abilities. Any legitimate being possessing of free will must not have clear or obvious origins such as coming off a mass production line. It origins must be at least be partly obscured both from its self and all those around it. Otherwise it is just a fancy complex logic circuit to us.

What if you could build machines that could think and feel akin to us?
What the hell would you do with them? They could exist in the real world then why not in cyber space in simulated worlds. They could be annihilated with the press of a button or forced to multiply exponentially within Cyber space until the place was entirely full causing it to possibly become unstable. Would it then be illegal to erase them? This all just seems like nonsense to me.

In the future we will build many intelligent machines to perform task for us from the mundane to the spectacular. The overwhelming majority of these will possess only the intelligence required to perform a very specific tasks and nothing else. Some will probably be given similar to human intelligence but they will be kept for entertainment purposes and few super intelligent computer might be created for the purpose of solving incredibly difficult problems. After which they will be terminated. Their memory cleared with the press of a button.

[Conscentia]

Let me ask this. Who the hell would create a sentient AI after watching: The Matrix, Terminator, I Robot, Transformers and countless other movies where Sentient AI take over the world?

Someone who realises that those are works of fiction, and that an artificial person is no more dangerous than any other person?

[The Satvelli Archipelago]

For the sake of proposing something new for all of us to strangle each other over, what if the AI was perhaps housed or transferred into some form of a biological body?

[Camicon]

Let me ask this. Who the hell would create a sentient AI after watching: The Matrix, Terminator, I Robot, Transformers and countless other movies where Sentient AI take over the world?

Let me ask this. Who would seriously consider works of absolute and pure imagination to be an accurate depiction of something that has never occurred?

[Alowwvia]

Sure, if you want to get reeeaaalllll technical about it, every effect needs cause, yes.

So, if YOUR brain operates like that, and the various circuitry of an AI operates like that, then what's the difference?

1) every effect does not need a cause. That has been proven. I can cite some sources again if you really need.

2) One being biological. I wouldn't be oppressed to the idea of treating them as equal if they were a biological species.

Saying QUANTUM MECHANICS does not, in any way, prove that the human mind utilizes quantum uncertainties to function in random ways. Yeah, I fucking know that particles behave oddly when not observed, so what makes your particles so special?

And every effect has a cause, even if it is not immediatle apparent, the same way lightning doesn't happen 'Just because' like we used to think it did.

And why is being made of CERTAIN chemicals giving you elitism over an entity made of different ones? Even if the end result is the fucking SAME? Why are you going to go "NOPE NOT ENOUGH PROTEIN LOL SHUT IT DOWN".

[Aghny]

Let me ask this. Who the hell would create a sentient AI after watching: The Matrix, Terminator, I Robot, Transformers and countless other movies where Sentient AI take over the world?

Obviously someone who wants to see something like that happen.

[United Marxist Nations]

The two which are bolded are the relevant definitions in biology; please explain how an AI is capable of either.

Number one. Very obviously.

To increase in size by a natural and organic process; to increase in bulk by the gradual assimilation of new matter into the living organism; said of animals and vegetables and their organs.

To spring up and come to matturity in a natural way; to be produced by vegetation; to thrive; to flourish; as, rice grows in warm countries. Where law faileth, error groweth. (Gower)

AI cannot do either of these.

[Conjoined Empire]

Alright, let me put things this way:

I consider something as a living being, if it has some of the qualities I have listed before, and has come into being through processes of nature...
In other words it has come into being on its own, it was consciously designed and created by another living creature.

[Alowwvia]

And people are built (At the cellular level, by cells), programmed (By DNA), and designed (By Natural Selection and Mutation).

So, again, your point being?

Only AI are built, programmed and designed by "us".

Similar to how if a "god" existed, he/she/it would be superior to us in every way.

Being the Creator does not make you ethically superior or more valuable at a fundamental level. If the AI's mind operates at a human level, we are no longer superior to it just because we created it, just as God would not be superior to me because I can think.

[Muckistania]

Let me ask this. Who the hell would create a sentient AI after watching: The Matrix, Terminator, I Robot, Transformers and countless other movies where Sentient AI take over the world?

Those are movies. Will AI choose to kill humanity? The AI will chose to do whatever its creators decide that they want it to do. Mankind periodically wages wars amongst it self so it would not be surprising to hear of an bunch of AI machines killing some people in the future, programmed by those peoples human enemies.