Was an abortion ban what brought the fall of Ceausescu?

[Thafoo]

Based on the Kansas thread, an issue that is from 1989- Did Nicolae Ceausescu's ban on abortion bring down his own regime?
http://www.columbia.edu/~cp2124/papers/ ... latest.pdf
The babies born after the abortion ban grew up in overcrowded schools and filth and ultimately ended up overthrowing Nicolae. From a Columbia University paper-

7 Conclusion
This paper has used Romaniaís unusual history of abortion legislation to assess the impact of a change in abortion regime on the socio-economic outcomes of children. On average, children born before abortion became illegal display better educational and labor market achievements, and this outcome can be explained by a change in the composition of families having children: urban, educated women working in good jobs were more likely to have abortions prior to the policy change, so a higher proportion of children were born into urban, educated households. Moreover, the analysis shows that after controlling for this type of compositional changes, the children born after the abortion ban had significantly worse schooling and labor market outcomes. I interpret this result as evidence of the existence of a negative unwantedness effect. The analysis also shows that crowding in schools, due to the large increase in fertility immediately following the abortion ban, lowered educational achievements of the cohorts affected. Finally, I have provided some suggestive evidence consistent with the view that cohorts born after the introduction of the abortion ban had inferior infant outcomes and increased criminal behavior later in life.
While the present study has shown evidence of negative developmental effects caused by a change in abortion policy, the relevance of these findings could be of a broader nature and does not have to refer strictly to abortion legislation. The findings of this study may be relevant in many settings where social, political or economic factors cause excess fertility, due to lack of access to birth control methods.

Most importantly in the conclusion-

[the] children born after the abortion ban had significantly worse schooling and labor market outcomes. I interpret this result as evidence of the existence of a negative unwantedness effect. The analysis also shows that crowding in schools, due to the large increase in fertility immediately following the abortion ban, lowered educational achievements of the cohorts affected.

I agree with the Freakonomics theory as well as the one in this paper- the abortion ban indeed was bad for the country.
A contributing factor was the encouragement and sometimes requirement for a woman to procreate.
Thoughts, NSG?

EDIT: Freakonomics on abortion- also raises point about New York crime

[Densaner]

Truly a ridiculous policy. But it was a part of the wider wave of ending Communism. He also wrecked half of Bucharest to build his palace and used the army to crush demonstrators.

[Thafoo]

Truly a ridiculous policy. But it was a part of the wider wave of ending Communism. He also wrecked half of Bucharest to build his palace and used the army to crush demonstrators.

A majority of the wave of college aged students who stormed the streets in protest ultimately bringing his regime down were babies that would not have been born of the abortion ban had not been enacted.

[Disserbia]

I think it was a bit more than that. Not that I condone such laws, because I don't.

[Ashmoria]

I don't know that it brought about his downfall but it probably increased the happiness of the people when he was executed.

[Luveria]

I agree with the Freakonomics theory as well as the one in this paper- the abortion ban indeed was bad for the country.
A contributing factor was the encouragement and sometimes requirement for a woman to procreate.
Thoughts, NSG?

It was terrible for the country and one of the reasons for Communism ending in Romania but not the direct reason Ceausescu's regime ended. It was one of many reasons which contributed to Ceausescu's end.

[Densaner]

Truly a ridiculous policy. But it was a part of the wider wave of ending Communism. He also wrecked half of Bucharest to build his palace and used the army to crush demonstrators.

A majority of the wave of college aged students who stormed the streets in protest ultimately bringing his regime down were babies that would not have been born of the abortion ban had not been enacted.

Yeah but why were they protesting? The Romanian uprising was part of a revolutionary wave. There were reasons in Romanian society aside from poor Education and life chances to merit a revolution. Abortion didn't cause half of Bucharest to be demolished. The crowds in Bucharest chanted "Timișoara" at Ceaușescu in 1989.

[Freiheit Reich]

I agree with the Freakonomics theory as well as the one in this paper- the abortion ban indeed was bad for the country.
A contributing factor was the encouragement and sometimes requirement for a woman to procreate.
Thoughts, NSG?

It was terrible for the country and one of the reasons for Communism ending in Romania but not the direct reason Ceausescu's regime ended. It was one of many reasons which contributed to Ceausescu's end.

Agree with this post.

An example of why the pros of abortion outweigh the cons.

[Zweite Alaje]

It was terrible for the country and one of the reasons for Communism ending in Romania but not the direct reason Ceausescu's regime ended. It was one of many reasons which contributed to Ceausescu's end.

Agree with this post.

An example of why the pros of abortion outweigh the cons.

There are no pros to abortion.

Also, I doubt this had much to do with Ceausescu's downfall. It was because he was a shit leader.

[The Biased Conservatives]

The pros of Abortion outweigh the cons!? Can we be serious! Isn't it evident by now that Abortion goes against everything the creator intended? If God wanted you to kill life that he made possible he would've sent it through a prophet, in a vision that only HE sees, to later tell everyone else and be put in an ancient ever changing book.

I mean if abortion were suppose to be allowed, someone would've stopped whatever the hell Ke$ha is

[Regnum Dominae]

Nicolae Ceausescu fell because he was a psychotic tyrant with a Stalin-like personality cult. Such a thing cannot last forever.

[Liriena]

The pros of Abortion outweigh the cons!? Can we be serious! Isn't it evident by now that Abortion goes against everything the creator intended? If God wanted you to kill life that he made possible he would've sent it through a prophet, in a vision that only HE sees, to later tell everyone else and be put in an ancient ever changing book.

I mean if abortion were suppose to be allowed, someone would've stopped whatever the hell Ke$ha is

Read your Bible. The Biblical God was very clear in his belief that life begins with the first breath, not conception, and that mass infanticide can be allowed in certain circumstances (God himself, in the Old Testament, is proud to command his followers to murder all the newborns of enemy tribes).

lrn2bible

[Liriena]

On the topic of this thread: Indirectly, Ceausescu's ban on abortions certainly played a major role in his downfall, but only indirectly so.

[Condunum]

Agree with this post.

An example of why the pros of abortion outweigh the cons.

There are no pros to abortion.

Also, I doubt this had much to do with Ceausescu's downfall. It was because he was a shit leader.

...And this was a good example of him being a shit leader.

[Quintium]

I think it had more to do with him depriving his population of food and electricity in order to pay off his debts while also denying them basic freedoms.

[Luveria]

There are no pros to abortion.

Just because you say there aren't any pros to abortion, doesn't mean there aren't any.

Around 40% of pregnancies in the USA are unwanted. Is that the kind of parents you want to be raising children they don't want? And people wonder why society is so fucked up.

[Quintium]

Around 40% of pregnancies in the USA are unwanted. Is that the kind of parents you want to be raising children they don't want? And people wonder why society is so fucked up.

I live in a country where abortion isn't just legal as a means of contraception, but government-funded. The people most likely to have abortions are succesful people with careers and social lives. The people least likely to have abortions are single mothers, immigrants, scum with a criminal record twice the size of the Qur'an, and white trash. The people who shouldn't be having children are having children anyway.

[Luveria]

Around 40% of pregnancies in the USA are unwanted. Is that the kind of parents you want to be raising children they don't want? And people wonder why society is so fucked up.

I live in a country where abortion isn't just legal as a means of contraception, but government-funded. The people most likely to have abortions are succesful people with careers and social lives. The people least likely to have abortions are single mothers, immigrants, scum with a criminal record twice the size of the Qur'an, and white trash. The people who shouldn't be having children are having children anyway.

This is why I would like to see a parental licensing program in place. Or at the very least deny people with criminals records the right to be parents.

[Freiheit Reich]

I live in a country where abortion isn't just legal as a means of contraception, but government-funded. The people most likely to have abortions are succesful people with careers and social lives. The people least likely to have abortions are single mothers, immigrants, scum with a criminal record twice the size of the Qur'an, and white trash. The people who shouldn't be having children are having children anyway.

This is why I would like to see a parental licensing program in place. Or at the very least deny people with criminals records the right to be parents.

A valid idea but a big infringement on civil liberties. I could see people convicted of 3 or more real rapes being steralized though (odds are that if it is 3 convictions at least 1 of them actually happened meaning few innocent people would be steralized).

A better idea is cheap and easy access to birth control and abortions. Also maybe govt. benefits for those that get steralized (if they are below a certain income level). Maybe some free marijuana or opium. This will attract drug users to get steralized because they want their fix. The kind of people we want to get steralized. Cash rewards could also be provided.

No govt. funds for reversals though.

A massive propoganda campaign encouraging people to just have 1-2 children for the good of the nation.

[Arglorand]

The pros of Abortion outweigh the cons!? Can we be serious! Isn't it evident by now that Abortion goes against everything the creator intended? If God wanted you to kill life that he made possible he would've sent it through a prophet, in a vision that only HE sees, to later tell everyone else and be put in an ancient ever changing book.

You're not serious on this, right? Because I don't know about everyone else, but I don't give a fucking shit what your imaginary friend intended.

[Quintium]

A massive propoganda campaign encouraging people to just have 1-2 children for the good of the nation.

Considering demographic reality in the western world, 2-3 creates a more durable figure. Not all children make it through childhood, and many couples will not have any children.
And again, the ones that do are the low-life drug users, single mothers, religious extremists and white trash. Basically, the Fallout universe except for the super mutants.

[Luveria]

A valid idea but a big infringement on civil liberties. I could see people convicted of 3 or more real rapes being steralized though (odds are that if it is 3 convictions at least 1 of them actually happened meaning few innocent people would be steralized).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/02/steven-smith-death-sentence_n_2996518.html
Somehow society feels it would be a big infringement on civil liberties not allowing people like this to be parents.

[Nova Nacio]

Abortion is the population control the US needs... Without it, we're going to become more overpopulated, underemployed, and underdeveloped faster than any 3rd World state as of recent events - the last thing we need is for genocide to replace something more civil and less violent a solution to my grievances mentioned above.

I knoe I sound like a poor excuse for a humanitarian, but am I really - abortion and contraception should not be policed by angry, bitter greedy old men in power who know nothing about women OR being human, period, especially since by outlawing this shit - they are setting America up to become more anarchistic than Africa a couple of decades from now.

[Freiheit Reich]

A massive propoganda campaign encouraging people to just have 1-2 children for the good of the nation.

Considering demographic reality in the western world, 2-3 creates a more durable figure. Not all children make it through childhood, and many couples will not have any children.
And again, the ones that do are the low-life drug users, single mothers, religious extremists and white trash. Basically, the Fallout universe except for the super mutants.

When world population drops to 2 billion we can encourage people to have 2-3 children to stabalize the population. Growth is bad.

The USA with 100 million people would be much better. Cleaner air, less traffic, cheaper land prices, more resources per person, etc. We are too crowded and it is getting worse. Look at LA traffic at 8 AM on a weekday for an example of how crowded we are. Compare this traffic to 1925. Big difference.

Look at the droughts the US is facing, especially in the western states. More people are not needed.

[Luveria]

Cleaner air

Stricter environmental regulations.

less traffic

Increase funding for public transportation.

Look at LA traffic at 8 AM on a weekday for an example of how crowded we are. Compare this traffic to 1925. Big difference.

There is a much higher percentage of car owners today than there was in 1925.