Gun Permit

[Sociobiology]

when book homicides make up 70% of homicides we will consider requiring a form to purchase a book.

again far easier to buy a gun then get a library card.
If you are going to move the goalpost to books, please say so up front.

This is presuming you find a private gun for sale, which generally requires hunting one down. After all, you can't advertise them on Craigslist, buy them on eBay, or anything of the sort.

actually you can buy guns online quite easily.
I'm surprise you don't know this.

[Fireye]

This is presuming you find a private gun for sale, which generally requires hunting one down. After all, you can't advertise them on Craigslist, buy them on eBay, or anything of the sort.

actually you can buy guns online quite easily.
I'm surprise you don't know this.

And legally, they need to be shipped not to you, but to a local FFL holding store, who then has to run a background check before they can let you pick up the firearm.

[Sociobiology]

go ahead and find a poll with an N that high. When you find any poll with an N of several million, on any subject you can come back. Just because you are ignorant of how polling and statistics work does not mean the rest of us are. A good survey (which Gallup is known for) with an N of 1000 is accurate for the population of the US with a ~5% margin of error.

Then why do similar polls differ wildly?

first source this claim.

then
1. public opinion is not static

2. the wording of a question has an impact.

3. Margin of error

I'm fully aware that would never happen, without a state-approved census. Doesn't change the fact that 1000 is in no way representative of nigh on 315 million people these days.

actually it can easily be representative with a few controls, see blocking or experimental design in general.

for a population of ~250,000,000 (the US adult population) a sample size of N=1000, and a confidence interval of 95%, yields a margin of error of 3.1%

I understand you don't know anything about statistics, but that is not an excuse if you are going to discuss it.

[Galloism]

This is presuming you find a private gun for sale, which generally requires hunting one down. After all, you can't advertise them on Craigslist, buy them on eBay, or anything of the sort.

actually you can buy guns online quite easily.
I'm surprise you don't know this.

Actually....

actually you can buy guns online quite easily.
I'm surprise you don't know this.

And legally, they need to be shipped not to you, but to a local FFL holding store, who then has to run a background check before they can let you pick up the firearm.

Oh yes. That.

[Sociobiology]

actually you can buy guns online quite easily.
I'm surprise you don't know this.

And legally, they need to be shipped not to you, but to a local FFL holding store, who then has to run a background check before they can let you pick up the firearm.

or you can arrange an in person meeting, much like buying many things online that are difficult to ship.

[Galloism]

And legally, they need to be shipped not to you, but to a local FFL holding store, who then has to run a background check before they can let you pick up the firearm.

or you can arrange an in person meeting, much like buying many things online that are difficult to ship.

Which either means you have to luck out and find someone close to you with the type of gun you want (not an easy task) or drive 100+ miles to meet the person, which is harder than getting a library card.

[Sociobiology]

or you can arrange an in person meeting, much like buying many things online that are difficult to ship.

Which either means you have to luck out and find someone close to you with the type of gun you want (not an easy task) or drive 100+ miles to meet the person, which is harder than getting a library card.

except there are entire websites devoted to this.
And I was not aware ALL gun purchases occurred online, or is this another case of moving the goal post.
Oh and as for difficulty 30-40% of gun sales are private, so it can't be that difficult.

[Occupied Deutschland]

And legally, they need to be shipped not to you, but to a local FFL holding store, who then has to run a background check before they can let you pick up the firearm.

or you can arrange an in person meeting, much like buying many things online that are difficult to ship.

Yes, and this takes time and running.

I mean, shit, I've been watching gun websites (and going to gun shows) for someone selling a Mosin since November. I've run into THREE in my state on the internet. One was five hundred miles away. One was $300 more expensive than I would buy it (and 170 miles away) and one was butchered 'modernized' by the owner in despicable various ways (also about 70 miles away and $200 over what its worth).

Much easier to get a library card.

[Galloism]

Which either means you have to luck out and find someone close to you with the type of gun you want (not an easy task) or drive 100+ miles to meet the person, which is harder than getting a library card.

except there are entire websites devoted to this.
And I was not aware ALL gun purchases occurred online, or is this another case of moving the goal post.

Nope. I pointed out how difficult it was to find the type of firearm you want being privately sold using conventional means (not online). It's harder than getting a library card.

You said you could do it online and implied that's easier than getting a library card.

It was pointed out to you that it must be shipped to a dealer who has to run a background check.

You countered that this is not true if delivered in hand.

I pointed out that buying online and delivering in hand would typically require extensive travel... which is harder than getting a library card.

So far, getting a library card is still easier.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Which either means you have to luck out and find someone close to you with the type of gun you want (not an easy task) or drive 100+ miles to meet the person, which is harder than getting a library card.

except there are entire websites devoted to this.
And I was not aware ALL gun purchases occurred online, or is this another case of moving the goal post.
Oh and as for difficulty 30-40% of gun sales are private, so it can't be that difficult.

20 year old statistic is twenty years old.

[Sociobiology]

or you can arrange an in person meeting, much like buying many things online that are difficult to ship.

Yes, and this takes time and running.

I mean, shit, I've been watching gun websites (and going to gun shows) for someone selling a Mosin since November. I've run into THREE in my state on the internet. One was five hundred miles away. One was $300 more expensive than I would buy it (and 170 miles away) and one was butchered 'modernized' by the owner in despicable various ways (also about 70 miles away and $200 over what its worth).

Much easier to get a library card.

Sure if you restrict yourself to only online private purchases.

Moving the goalpost.

[Galloism]

Yes, and this takes time and running.

I mean, shit, I've been watching gun websites (and going to gun shows) for someone selling a Mosin since November. I've run into THREE in my state on the internet. One was five hundred miles away. One was $300 more expensive than I would buy it (and 170 miles away) and one was butchered 'modernized' by the owner in despicable various ways (also about 70 miles away and $200 over what its worth).

Much easier to get a library card.

Sure if you restrict yourself to only online private purchases.

Moving the goalpost.

Humor: watching someone posit an alternative, and then complain when the alternative is argued against.

[Sociobiology]

except there are entire websites devoted to this.
And I was not aware ALL gun purchases occurred online, or is this another case of moving the goal post.
Oh and as for difficulty 30-40% of gun sales are private, so it can't be that difficult.

20 year old statistic is twenty years old.

IF you can find a more recent one with equal credibility lets have it.

[Sociobiology]

Sure if you restrict yourself to only online private purchases.

Moving the goalpost.

Humor: watching someone posit an alternative, and then complain when the alternative is argued against.

What alternative? is there or is there not a way to buy a gun without filling out a single form?

[Occupied Deutschland]

Yes, and this takes time and running.

I mean, shit, I've been watching gun websites (and going to gun shows) for someone selling a Mosin since November. I've run into THREE in my state on the internet. One was five hundred miles away. One was $300 more expensive than I would buy it (and 170 miles away) and one was butchered 'modernized' by the owner in despicable various ways (also about 70 miles away and $200 over what its worth).

Much easier to get a library card.

Sure if you restrict yourself to only online private purchases.

Moving the goalpost.

It was YOUR goalpost. Arranging a private meeting wherein a gun could be purchased without going through an FFL is only possible when that private meeting is occurring between private people doing a private sale.

Meaning your option of where to go is restricted to private purchases. Likely ones found via the internet because there are even fewer classified ads for firearms in newspapers.

In both instances, the time and travel involved makes it more difficult to get the firearm desired than a library card.

[Sociobiology]

Sure if you restrict yourself to only online private purchases.

Moving the goalpost.

It was YOUR goalpost.

no my goalpost was pool pf all gun sales.
you are the one proposing all of them require paperwork. then we chased your examples.

Arranging a private meeting wherein a gun could be purchased without going through an FFL is only possible when that private meeting is occurring between private people doing a private sale.

Meaning your option of where to go is restricted to private purchases. Likely ones found via the internet because there are even fewer classified ads for firearms in newspapers.

what are you high?
20% of all purchases are from family, another ten from friends.
so what percentage of private sales do you think fit one of these two categories.

so we can say a minimum of 30% of firearm sales require no paperwork.

[Occupied Deutschland]

It was YOUR goalpost.

no my goalpost was pool pf all gun sales.
you are the one proposing all of them require paperwork. then we chased your examples.
...
what are you high?
20% of all purchases are from family, another ten from friends.
so what percentage of private sales do you think fit one of these two categories.

Humor: watching someone posit an alternative, and then complain when the alternative is argued against.

[Sociobiology]

no my goalpost was pool pf all gun sales.
you are the one proposing all of them require paperwork. then we chased your examples.
...
what are you high?
20% of all purchases are from family, another ten from friends.
so what percentage of private sales do you think fit one of these two categories.

Humor: watching someone posit an alternative, and then complain when the alternative is argued against.

Yes, I wonder why you keep doing it.

[Galloism]

Humor: watching someone posit an alternative, and then complain when the alternative is argued against.

What alternative? is there or is there not a way to buy a gun without filling out a single form?

Yes, which typically requires far more effort than filling out a form.

[Fireye]

Yes, and this takes time and running.

I mean, shit, I've been watching gun websites (and going to gun shows) for someone selling a Mosin since November. I've run into THREE in my state on the internet. One was five hundred miles away. One was $300 more expensive than I would buy it (and 170 miles away) and one was butchered 'modernized' by the owner in despicable various ways (also about 70 miles away and $200 over what its worth).

Much easier to get a library card.

Man, I knew I got a great deal on my factory new 1939 Mosin in Illinois.

I didn't realize just how good of a deal $150.00 after tax was.

And no, butchered was the correct term. A Mosin-Nagat is a work of art.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

It was YOUR goalpost.

no my goalpost was pool pf all gun sales.
you are the one proposing all of them require paperwork. then we chased your examples.

Arranging a private meeting wherein a gun could be purchased without going through an FFL is only possible when that private meeting is occurring between private people doing a private sale.

Meaning your option of where to go is restricted to private purchases. Likely ones found via the internet because there are even fewer classified ads for firearms in newspapers.

what are you high?
20% of all purchases are from family, another ten from friends.
so what percentage of private sales do you think fit one of these two categories.

so we can say a minimum of 30% of firearm sales require no paperwork.

If you want a gun with no care for what it is or what it does, sure.
As said elsewhere, if you want a gun that you want, then no, it becomes incredulously difficult.

[Sociobiology]

What alternative? is there or is there not a way to buy a gun without filling out a single form?

Yes, which typically requires far more effort than filling out a form.

really?
"Hey, hank wanna buy my rifle."
"Sure Ted."
is harder than filling out a form?
Do you have a speech impediment or something?

[Sociobiology]

no my goalpost was pool pf all gun sales.
you are the one proposing all of them require paperwork. then we chased your examples.


what are you high?
20% of all purchases are from family, another ten from friends.
so what percentage of private sales do you think fit one of these two categories.

so we can say a minimum of 30% of firearm sales require no paperwork.

If you want a gun with no care for what it is or what it does, sure.
As said elsewhere, if you want a gun that you want, then no, it becomes incredulously difficult.

which is a subset of gun sales, thus moving the goal post.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

If you want a gun with no care for what it is or what it does, sure.
As said elsewhere, if you want a gun that you want, then no, it becomes incredulously difficult.

which is a subset of gun sales, thus moving the goal post.

I don't think so.
Largely since most "family and friends" guns sales, despite the propensity, aren't typically for or resulting in nefarious events.

[Galloism]

Yes, which typically requires far more effort than filling out a form.

really?
"Hey, hank wanna buy my rifle."
"Sure Ted."
is harder than filling out a form?
Do you have a speech impediment or something?

You know, I've only ever been involved in private sales (or seen private sales) in two places.

The first was at the HQ when I was on the force (I think FHP buy/sell/trade easily make up 10% of that statistic alone, not sarcastic) and the second was at a gun club. Both places where everybody owns guns already.

I have never, in all my years, seen anyone walk up to a random stranger and offer to buy/sell a gun outside of a sting. Even then, it's not random.

The vast majority sales almost have to be taking place between people who are already friends, family, or colleagues of the person in question.