Gun Permit

[Geilinor]

FBI agents won't be doing the work. There would be separate employees to manage NICS administration.

Oh so you're saying we would create another new federal agency, given how much money this govt already wastes on daily basis no thank you.

No. Do you think the NICS has FBI agents doing administration? The people who work on that would be FBI employees, but not agents. An FBI agent actually goes out into the field, but the FBI has many non-agent positions.

[Llamalandia]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the current background check system works by seeing if you are a criminal. If you make up a fake name address and dob (and assuming you don't get very unlucky and choose the name of an actual criminal) you won't be flagged as a prohibited person and would be approved for a firearm would you not?

Hello, fingerprints?

Fingerprints aren't currently required to buy a gun (at least federally states may for handguns i believe) so unless your suggesting fingerprinting people when they buy a gun in the future (which costs more money) I don't see how the background check ever catches anyone except people stupid enough to use their real name.

[Galloism]

Hello, fingerprints?

Fingerprints aren't currently required to buy a gun (at least federally states may for handguns i believe) so unless your suggesting fingerprinting people when they buy a gun in the future (which costs more money) I don't see how the background check ever catches anyone except people stupid enough to use their real name.

I cannot speak as to whether its the law in every state, but in those which I've purchased firearms I've always been required to present ID.

[Sociobiology]

who is proposing having the states do it?
This would be a federal proposal, paid for by a fee when you get the licence.


how do you think background checks work?
Also what does the FBI have to do with it?

Correct me if I'm wrong but the current background check system works by seeing if you are a criminal. If you make up a fake name address and dob (and assuming you don't get very unlucky and choose the name of an actual criminal) you won't be flagged as a prohibited person and would be approved for a firearm would you not?

I will correct you, for one thing you would need a fake social security number that matches that information as well as a drivers licence and thus a complete fake identity.
many states include a blind fingerprint check (one that checks for matches in databases but does not add to them) or medical records.

[Galloism]

Driving a car on public roads is different from owning a gun in your home.
A license to carry in public is a reasonable compromise that treats gun ownership like car ownership, and look the states already have that.

no I compare it to owning dynamite, and should have similar licencing.

I think the first problem is that you find a handheld ranged weapon that hits one target at a time similar in nature to explosives that can take out a whole city block at once.

[Geilinor]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the current background check system works by seeing if you are a criminal. If you make up a fake name address and dob (and assuming you don't get very unlucky and choose the name of an actual criminal) you won't be flagged as a prohibited person and would be approved for a firearm would you not?

I will correct you, for one thing you would need a fake social security number that matches that information as well as a drivers licence and thus a complete fake identity.
many states include a blind fingerprint check (one that checks for matches in databases but does not add to them) or medical records.

That's true. Very few people would dare faking their social security number.

[Greed and Death]

Why would FBI agents be assigned such tasks?

A very nitpicky distinction especially since the administrative posts in the FBI often require prior law enforcement experience.

[Geilinor]

Why would FBI agents be assigned such tasks?

A very nitpicky distinction especially since the administrative posts in the FBI often require prior law enforcement experience.

They can make a position that doesn't. All those employees would do is manage the gun registry.

[Galloism]

Why would FBI agents be assigned such tasks?

A very nitpicky distinction especially since the administrative posts in the FBI often require prior law enforcement experience.

And, given there are only 56 FBI field offices, would create an immense administrative burden on those seeking to exercise their constitutional rights.

Unless the whole permit can be done via mail order, which would destroy the purpose entirely.

[Greed and Death]

no I compare it to owning dynamite, and should have similar licencing.

I think the first problem is that you find a handheld ranged weapon that hits one target at a time similar in nature to explosives that can take out a whole city block at once.

Also dynamite can spontaneously explode if stored incorrectly, guns tend to just rust to a non functioning status if improperly stored.

[Galloism]

I think the first problem is that you find a handheld ranged weapon that hits one target at a time similar in nature to explosives that can take out a whole city block at once.

Also dynamite can spontaneously explode if stored incorrectly, guns tend to just rust to a non functioning status if improperly stored.

Well... if maintained improperly, it could theoretically explode in a person's hand when attempted to be used.

Of course, the only hurts the weilder, not everyone on his/her block.

[Llamalandia]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the current background check system works by seeing if you are a criminal. If you make up a fake name address and dob (and assuming you don't get very unlucky and choose the name of an actual criminal) you won't be flagged as a prohibited person and would be approved for a firearm would you not?

I will correct you, for one thing you would need a fake social security number that matches that information as well as a drivers licence and thus a complete fake identity.
many states include a blind fingerprint check (one that checks for matches in databases but does not add to them) or medical records.

I wasn't aware that gun purchases required a SSN I though it was just valid photo id (pretty easy to fake teens do it all the time) Name DOB and address but again if I'm wrong let me know.

[Greed and Death]

A very nitpicky distinction especially since the administrative posts in the FBI often require prior law enforcement experience.

And, given there are only 56 FBI field offices, would create an immense administrative burden on those seeking to exercise their constitutional rights.

Unless the whole permit can be done via mail order, which would destroy the purpose entirely.

I was assuming we would tolerate the creation of thousands of new offices of the FBI.
I do not see more than a 30 minute travel time and a 15 minute wait time to be reasonable.

All these issues could be avoided if local law enforcement did the registration, they normally have numerous police stations and normally have a few officers on duty to take public complaints and assist with arrest. Of course that now brings us back congress can not force the states to do it.

[Greed and Death]

Also dynamite can spontaneously explode if stored incorrectly, guns tend to just rust to a non functioning status if improperly stored.

Well... if maintained improperly, it could theoretically explode in a person's hand when attempted to be used.

Of course, the only hurts the weilder, not everyone on his/her block.

Let me guess your not a fan of glocks.

[Llamalandia]

Fingerprints aren't currently required to buy a gun (at least federally states may for handguns i believe) so unless your suggesting fingerprinting people when they buy a gun in the future (which costs more money) I don't see how the background check ever catches anyone except people stupid enough to use their real name.

I cannot speak as to whether its the law in every state, but in those which I've purchased firearms I've always been required to present ID.

Right and no one has ever made a fake id

[Geilinor]

I cannot speak as to whether its the law in every state, but in those which I've purchased firearms I've always been required to present ID.

Right and no one has ever made a fake id

IDs are still reliable enough to be used for every registration purpose on the planet.

[Galloism]

I cannot speak as to whether its the law in every state, but in those which I've purchased firearms I've always been required to present ID.

Right and no one has ever made a fake id

Sure, if the shop owner doesnt spot it, but unless it links to a real person, the background check would come back "never heard of him".

[Galloism]

Well... if maintained improperly, it could theoretically explode in a person's hand when attempted to be used.

Of course, the only hurts the weilder, not everyone on his/her block.

Let me guess your not a fan of glocks.

You noticed.

[Gun Manufacturers]

It seems reasonable to me, I would be perfectly fine with that, along with a requirement to conceal firearms if you want to carry them in a public place (open carry, in an inappropriate situation/place, is extremely disruptive and causes more trouble than it's worth, in my opinion), and restrictions on so-called "destructive devices". I would also support forensically fingerprinting guns so that bullets from crime scenes can be traced back to the gun which fired them.

The great danger of registration, at least among more extreme gun rights advocates, is that it's an avenue for future seizure. I recognize that concern. In an ideal world, where we could leave gun control limited to that, I would definitely support this sort of set up.

Destructive devices ARE restricted. You can't just walk in, buy one at your local gun store, and walk out with it. It takes getting an NFA tax stamp from the ATF (which involves paperwork, a background check, a $200 check for the tax stamp, and several months of waiting) before you can own one.

[Llamalandia]

Right and no one has ever made a fake id

Sure, if the shop owner doesnt spot it, but unless it links to a real person, the background check would come back "never heard of him".

Right but the only way to that is to either call the dmv which issue license or check a social security number which would require interfacing with the SSA which I don't believe th NICS system is allowed to do but again correct me if I'm wrong on needing a SSN to buy a gun.

[Galloism]

Sure, if the shop owner doesnt spot it, but unless it links to a real person, the background check would come back "never heard of him".

Right but the only way to that is to either call the dmv which issue license or check a social security number which would require interfacing with the SSA which I don't believe th NICS system is allowed to do but again correct me if I'm wrong on needing a SSN to buy a gun.

It's been so long since I bought a new one, I flat out don't remember.

[Llamalandia]

Right and no one has ever made a fake id

IDs are still reliable enough to be used for every registration purpose on the planet.

and yet teens still use them to buy alcohol now don't they (though states have started cracking down on fakies)

[Occupied Deutschland]

Right but the only way to that is to either call the dmv which issue license or check a social security number which would require interfacing with the SSA which I don't believe th NICS system is allowed to do but again correct me if I'm wrong on needing a SSN to buy a gun.

It's been so long since I bought a new one, I flat out don't remember.

ATF offers e-form 4473s for download if anyone feels like checking. I believe the SSN box says that its optional but will help in positive identification, meaning less likelihood of a false positive.

Edit: From the ATF 4473 FAQ
Q: Is a Social Security card a proper means of identification for purchasing a firearm from an FFL?

No. A Social Security card, alien registration card, or military identification alone does not contain sufficient information to identify a firearms purchaser. However, a purchaser may be identified by any combination of government-issued documents which together establish all of the required information: Name, residence address, date of birth, and photograph of the holder.

No SSN it seems.

[Llamalandia]

Based on a quick googling it appears a ssn isn't required by the feds for purchasing a gun though some states and cities do sometimes require it for hand gun purchases. If anyone more authoritative than myself wishes to weigh in though it would be greatly appreciated

[Conceptina]

I think that people should own guns but there should be some guidlines before the purchase of a firearm is official. My recommendations:

1. The person should go through a basic safety course with the firearm they intend to buy and learn the basics of being a responsible gun owner (for example: muzzle control, proper trigger discipline, etc....This would reduce the rate of firearms related accidents and stupidity. The gun that kills the most people is the one that is unloaded )

2. Psychological evaluations on the person intending to buy the weapon (Most whackjobs shooting up schools and theaters don't have a previous criminal record, allowing them to pass background checks.A psych eval would be more effective at weeding the nutjobs out.)