You Don't Exist, Apparently...

[Tunizcha]

Well, until UT comes on, I won't be my naive materialist self.

It is true that we can never be entirely sure of our existence, or the existence of existence itself.
But unless we assume so, all is nigh.

I've been waiting for quite some time, I await with great anticipation and anxiety.

All we can do is keep the thread running until UT comes back. Which, according to history, should be about a day or so.

[Rhodmhire]

Thank you for that paragraph, it was very deep and a very, VERY good read. I think this thing is going into the preservation archives.

If that's aimed at me, thank you.

If not, it was still a good response.

[Rhodmhire]

Well, until UT comes on, I won't be my naive materialist self.

It is true that we can never be entirely sure of our existence, or the existence of existence itself.
But unless we assume so, all is nigh.

I've been waiting for quite some time, I await with great anticipation and anxiety.

All we can do is keep the thread running until UT comes back. Which, according to history, should be about a day or so.

So it shall be done.

[Tunizcha]

Seeing as no one else is posting, I'll take it upon myself.


This 'subjective reality' stuff has gotten me thinking. This may seem like a superficial standpoint to you, but it attributes to a deeper understanding.
Today, a friend, who I believe is extremely skinny, told me he was on a diet. When I told him that he was already too skinny and that I (at a light 120 lbs. and 5'7") was much heavier than him. He was doubtful, and refused to give up his diet.

What the point of this is is that he viewed himself differently than myself. This attributes to that old idea that what I think is red could look like blue to you, and we wouldn't know the difference.

Einstein and those before him viewed the world differently than most of us, but what he did differently is that he proved undeniably that what he saw was (for the most part) what actually existed.

[Krytenia]

Seeing as no one else is posting, I'll take it upon myself.


This 'subjective reality' stuff has gotten me thinking. This may seem like a superficial standpoint to you, but it attributes to a deeper understanding.
Today, a friend, who I believe is extremely skinny, told me he was on a diet. When I told him that he was already too skinny and that I (at a light 120 lbs. and 5'7") was much heavier than him. He was doubtful, and refused to give up his diet.

What the point of this is is that he viewed himself differently than myself. This attributes to that old idea that what I think is red could look like blue to you, and we wouldn't know the difference.

Einstein and those before him viewed the world differently than most of us, but what he did differently is that he proved undeniably that what he saw was (for the most part) what actually existed.

And this could segue nicely into the topic of synaesthesia, too. What better example of subjective reality than someone who experiences senses in a way completely different than you or I?

From Geoff Ryman's unusual work, 253:

She is mourning the gradual loss of her synaesthesia. Synaesthesia is a medical condition in which one sense triggers a response in another. Until a month ago, Deirdre could see sound.

The opening of the tube doors used to send delicately coloured soap bubbles wafting through the carriage. The rattling smear outside the windows would trail floating oranges and melted-wax bobbles of purple. The sound of people talking evoked bright, jagged, jerking shapes of yellow, blue, green.

Deirdre's fear is that all of modern art has been derived from synaesthesia. Kandinsky was synaesthetic, she is sure, Auerbach, Bacon. She felt like a member of a secret society. Deirdre was never good at school (she is also mildly dyslexic). But she could sing and paint. She now fears that her talent will go, along with the thing that made her special. It is as though part of her had died.

Even music no longer works. She snaps off the Walkman. She begins to hum a tune. She becomes aware of it, something sad, graceful, expressing loss. Whose is it? It's modern, but it's not Part or Tavener or Glass.

It's hers. Emotion has been converted into music. She fumbles for a pen.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

Fine, I'll post. Here's the thing, there necessarily is a truth to the matter. Logic dictates that there must be statements about reality that are correct and statements about reality that are incorrect. It also dictates that some statements can be more or less accurate than others. Given this basic grounding, we can search for the most likely possible reality based on all available evidence. Hence, we have science.

[New Kereptica]

Fine, I'll post. Here's the thing, there necessarily is a truth to the matter. Logic dictates that there must be statements about reality that are correct and statements about reality that are incorrect. It also dictates that some statements can be more or less accurate than others. Given this basic grounding, we can search for the most likely possible reality based on all available evidence. Hence, we have science.

The Prodigal Son returneth

Objectively, truth does exist. Humans are rather far from objective, however.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

The Prodigal Son returneth

Objectively, truth does exist. Humans are rather far from objective, however.

That's why we've got tools like math, science, and measuring equipment, just like we have planes to compensate for the fact that we can't fly.

[Soviet Commu-Facism]

:blink:

WOW, now that was deep. In my opinion, some things are fact because we see it, others because we've read about it, and like the conspirist, some things because we just believe it.

For example:


• I am sitting at a desk, typing on a keyboard. This is fact because I am sitting at a desk, typing at a keyboard. I'm seeing it, hearing it, feeling it, ect. ect.
  
• Adolf Hitler was real and slaughtered millions of innocent people. This is fact. We only know this by those who lived in the 1940s and such and by footage, pictures, items from the past. However, we believe it to have happened because of the overwhelming evidence that the Holocaust, sadly, existed,
  
• John F. Kennedy was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald. That's a fact, we all know that part, but we split on if Lee was in cahoots with other villains and baddies. For example, I believe that it was Lee and Lee alone, based on the hundreds of evidence of the Warren Report, and of my typical laughing at the "New World Order". HOWEVER, no matter how overwhelming the evidence, there is always the chance of a conspiracy. Though I can't validate the other theories, I stick with my one man stance. We know for a fact that JFK died, that Lee was involved, and from there, everything else is perception.
  
• Then, there's some things that we can never prove. For example, I believe that many billions of years ago, an intelligent, loving, and perfect being that I call God created the heavens and the earth. I believe that everything has a purpose in said being's plan. I believe that God sent his Son to Die on the Cross during the Roman Empire, and that said God-in-human-form, whom I call Jesus, ressurected on the Third Day, to become the savior of the World. I believe in Christianity in full. HOWEVER, I can never prove God, and my only evidence is a book well over a millineum old, composed in the Middle East and translated for centuries. However, I believe with all my existance that God and Jesus are real. Can I prove it? Absolutely not. Is it fact? To me, absolutely, but to others, it isn't.
  
  It makes me wonder. I laugh at conspirists all of the time, but with your deep insight on the subject, I was left thinking. I beleive in a supreme being outside of space and time. I believe in a perfect human created by God to save the world by death on a cross. I believe this with the same devout passion as a conspirist does on 9/11.
  
  

  ---

  
  
  Yet, I'm not that different. Religion can't be proven, but the religious believe it is real with their very being. Conspiracies can't be entirely ruled out, but the conspirists believe it is fact with their very being.

I guess conspiracies, like religion, are a product of the world's desire to understand everything around them. It may fill a sense of longing or a sense of purpose, but I guess we all have a little bit of conspiracy theories within us.

I believe in Jesus Christ, others believe in other gods and theories, and some believe in nothing. It's part of the beauty of life.


Thank you for that paragraph, it was very deep and a very, VERY good read. I think this thing is going into the preservation archives.

I am happy to see other Christians on Nation States. I myself am as well and I hope no one thought I doubted my existence, but I simply want to put forward unbiased evidence. And it makes me feel good to see there is a Christian who isn't preaching "Death to gays and blacks" as many have accused us of being like that. Back to the topic though, yes, it would only be logical to assume that if this were all a dream, then we would all have to be somewhere having this dream, and it is illogical to say that we are all having the same dream, or that one of us is having a dream and all the people we interact with don't exist.

[Cameroi]

the concept of fact, as in absolute certainty, is, indeed, for the most part a myth.
probability on the other paw is completely real.
as are relative preponderances of evidence.
that means we can have a high degree of certainty about many of the things we can observe.
just not absolute certainty about all of them.

when it comes to things that can only be inferred by interpreting measurements of other things,
certainty becomes less, but still with plenty of room for confidence, if we're honest enough with ourselves in the measuring and interpreting.

beyond that, we enter the realm of belief, which is indeed the dwelling place of most of what people become emotionally attached and familiar, with living as if it were something known.

there are many things that can be felt and experienced without being objectively established.

this is not a reason to reject out of hand the experiencing of them.

it isn't strangeness that is itself less then benign, but the incentives created by what people pretend to know about what is not known. and by known of course, this context being what it is, i mean, a high level of reasonable confidence based on a sufficient preponderance of evidence.

[Rhodmhire]

Fine, I'll post. Here's the thing, there necessarily is a truth to the matter. Logic dictates that there must be statements about reality that are correct and statements about reality that are incorrect. It also dictates that some statements can be more or less accurate than others. Given this basic grounding, we can search for the most likely possible reality based on all available evidence. Hence, we have science.

Boom.

Thank you, your post was the one I was awaiting, this is pretty much ended now.

Thank you.