Should democracy get tough on communist party's in the west?

[Individual]

I don't see the problem; if you own the houses, why shouldn't you be allowed to decide who gets to live in them? Why should anyone have a right to tell you who gets to live in YOUR houses?

Looks like it's time to add minorities to the list of things Hippo hates.

If he says that let private people keep their private businesses as they see fit and wants the government to be non-discriminatory, I fail to see how Hippo hates minorities.

[Dusk_Kittens]

*sigh*

1. A "democracy" theoretically advocates liberty, including freedom of association.

2. "Democracy" is a political system. "Communism" is an economic system. They are not diametrically opposed, and can even co-exist in the same nation-state. Totalitarianism is not a necessary feature of Communism.

3. Distinguish between at least three axes in a spatial geometrical graph: x, y, and z. Say x = political system, y = economic system, and z = civil liberties. Gee, doesn't that sound familiar? Why, yes. Yes, it does. It's the perspective on which the mechanics of this game are based. I think it's still too limited, and there have been more than a few topics here discussing various schemes for enhanced graphs with more axes, but at least get off that "Left to Right" line continuum. It's barely two-dimensional.

4. ... Never mind, I'll save the rest for another time.

I would oppose point to 2 as communism is in theory the event of a single political class.

Actually, no. Communism in theory is an idealistic pipe dream in which a dictatorship simply fades away into nothing, birthing the classless society that is actual Communism. This is preceded by a revolution and then a totalitarian state, but that state is NOT Communism (in theory or in practice). I trust this statement makes plain my personal view that an authentic communist society is impossible (at least on any large scale like a nation). However, my view that the system is impossible does not require me to portray it as something it is not.

I would oppose point to 2 as communism is in theory the event of a single political class.

Socialism is the economic system communism uses. Communism is the government system applied to a socialist economy.

But you can have a socialist economy under practically any government system.

To be fair, Communism can be classified as a form of Socialism. However, I believe most people distinguish between Socialism and Communism as two distinct systems.

[Divair]

Oh my, this thread is about to go to shit. This'll be hilarious.

Have you got the image of the black lady leaning out of the window going "What's goin' on in this thr-OH LAWD" ready? You're gonna need it.

Yes. Yes, I do.

[Chestaan]

I think there should be another option... where you diagnose all self-declared and genuine communists as mentally problematic and put them away.

It's healthier than the other poll options, prison or execution. It's not about punishing them for their beliefs... it's about simultaneously protecting society from them while helping them get over the mental blocks and become normal citizens again (rehabilitation).

It's not that communists WANT to be bad... it's not that they just want to cause chaos and destruction and advocate unrealistic policies. It's that something is different with them... unlike the 90%+ of the rest of the population, something is wired wrong and they for whatever reason... they think it's actually POSSIBLE to create a large scale classless, moneyless, and stateless society. This is a very dangerous disorder because the most serious sufferers of this madness will actually use violence to achieve their goals; the rest of them are equally dangerous because their instability makes them a liability to everyone else. One wrong trigger and they could snap and rise up against the government... for what they honestly believe are realistic, feasible, and possible objectives (while everyone else systematically and rationally rejects these utopian formulations).

It's clearly a sign of insanity if you believe in the possibility and feasibility of implementing a large scale stateless, moneyless, and classless society. We need to help these communists regain their rationality... they need our help and we as a society in the west should provide it.

Rehabilitation > Punishment

We can help them...

Think about it... it's much more realistic and feasibly than imprisoning or outright executing communists. It should be added as a poll option... I'd vote for it.

How can anybody who advocates this bullshit claim that another group has dangerous beliefs?

[Death Metal]

Read about HUAC and McCarthay then.

did they say "lol i'm gonna exterminate the fuck out of these guys" then get elected and not do it? please help me out.

No, they persecuted people who worked in fictional media by claiming they were using said media to promote communism. Such as this.

Also people like Charlie Chaplin and Orson Welles were targeted by HUAC. Mind explaining me what subversive communist nonfiction they published?

[Hippostania]

Sure, I'm sure that you can buy every house in America. And yeah, if you want to buy a house and rent it for left-wingers only, then sure, why the fuck not?

i don't need to. everyone hates them and they'll join up with me. :-)

i just want your confirmation it'd be totally ok if we managed though. please don't avoid it with "WELL THAT'LL NEVER HAPPEN LOL" like you're seriously incapable of comprehending the fact that there are some groups out there that suffer pretty serious and widespread discrimination.

If one manages to purchase every single house and apartment in the United States or at least convince all their owners to not let a particular group to reside in them, then damn, if you've really seen that much trouble over such a trivial little thing, then why not? sarcasm.

Seriously. If you allow private individuals to decide to whom they want to rent/sell their houses or serve in their businesses, the world is not going to end. There won't be a massive wave of antisemitism and blacks won't be lynched on the streets. Your examples are ridiculous.

[Ovisterra]

Wait, does this mean we can arrest Jesus and the authors of the various bits of the bible for advocating the killing of adulterers?

well if jeezy-creezy was trying to get elected based on the platform of "kill all the X people" i'd probably not let him. does that make me the real hitler?

Yes. You are Hitler. This is now canon.

[CTALNH]

I would certainly put you in a communal house...

And I would certainly put you down with a gun for trying to trample on my civil liberties. Your point?

Individuality should be condemned.The collective above all else.

You gotta earn your liberties something that I think you have never done.

[Divair]

well if jeezy-creezy was trying to get elected based on the platform of "kill all the X people" i'd probably not let him. does that make me the real hitler?

Yes. You are Hitler. This is now canon.

Literally Hitler.

[Ovisterra]

Example 1 = Someone has banned people from doing something they would otherwise be allowed to do.
Example 2 = Someone had allowed people to do something they previously weren't allowed to do.

So it's completely different.

No.
Example 1 is a private person setting rules in his own, private entity
Example 2 is the government discriminating against a particular grouos

How in the hell is marriage equality discrimination? Like seriously, what the fuck?

[Souseiseki]

Looks like it's time to add minorities to the list of things Hippo hates.

If he says that let private people keep their private businesses as they see fit and wants the government to be non-discriminatory, I fail to see how Hippo hates minorities.

I miss Rhodesia.

It's actually because of the primitve and undeveloped nature of their culture and decolonization. If Africa would still be colonized, shit like this wouldn't be happening.

I'm sorry that I like western culture and the name ''Rhodesia'' more than ZIMBUMBABWE and some primitive African tribe culture that has pretty much destroyed the entire nation.

I do not support apartheid. However, I do believe that original African tribal cultures should be discouraged or even suppressed due to their primitive, aggressive and inhumane features.

Honestly though, I can't decide which one is worse. At least apartheid-era South Africa and Rhodesia didn't have leftist parties in power, so I'm gonna say that the current situation is just barely worse than it was before.

I took the apartheid-era flag of South Africa, tweaked with the colors and then put Rarity in the middle.

Mind explaining me what subversive communist nonfiction they published?

probably none. again i don't think you actually understand the difference between a mans political views in his autobiography/book about his political struggle and fiction.

[Divair]

No.
Example 1 is a private person setting rules in his own, private entity
Example 2 is the government discriminating against a particular grouos

How in the hell is marriage equality discrimination? Like seriously, what the fuck?

You're discriminating against me by preventing me from discriminating.

[Souseiseki]

well if jeezy-creezy was trying to get elected based on the platform of "kill all the X people" i'd probably not let him. does that make me the real hitler?

Yes. You are Hitler. This is now canon.

don't tell ralkovia

i don't need to. everyone hates them and they'll join up with me. :-)

i just want your confirmation it'd be totally ok if we managed though. please don't avoid it with "WELL THAT'LL NEVER HAPPEN LOL" like you're seriously incapable of comprehending the fact that there are some groups out there that suffer pretty serious and widespread discrimination.

If one manages to purchase every single house and apartment in the United States or at least convince all their owners to not let a particular group to reside in them, then damn, if you've really seen that much trouble over such a trivial little thing, then why not? sarcasm.

Seriously. If you allow private individuals to decide to whom they want to rent/sell their houses or serve in their businesses, the world is not going to end. There won't be a massive wave of antisemitism and blacks won't be lynched on the streets. Your examples are ridiculous.

don't give me your sarcasm. answer the question. are you afraid to say yes?

again, look at how the roma are treated today.

[Individual]

And I would certainly put you down with a gun for trying to trample on my civil liberties. Your point?

Individuality should be condemned.The collective above all else.

You gotta earn your liberties something that I think you have never done.

Individuals make the collective, not the other way around. No individuals = no collective.

Might is right, my friend. Might is right. All I need is might to make my rights.

[CTALNH]

Individuality should be condemned.The collective above all else.

You gotta earn your liberties something that I think you have never done.

Individuals make the collective, not the other way around. No individuals = no collective.

Might is right, my friend. Might is right. All I need is might to make my rights.

I can twist that logic to justify my revolution you know...

[Hippostania]

No.
Example 1 is a private person setting rules in his own, private entity
Example 2 is the government discriminating against a particular groups

How in the hell is marriage equality discrimination? Like seriously, what the fuck?

Ah, sorry. I forgot that in my second example the government had allowed gay marriage, not banned it.

So yeah, it should be like this
Example 1 is a private person setting rules in his own, private entity. People who disagree with the rules are free to seek other businessess to satisfy their needs.
Example 2 is the government has legalized something that many people disagree with, in this gay marriage. However, this does not violate anyone's rights. Some people might disagree with gay marriage, but the fact that it's legal does not violate their rights.

[Individual]

Individuals make the collective, not the other way around. No individuals = no collective.

Might is right, my friend. Might is right. All I need is might to make my rights.

I can twist that logic to justify my revolution you know...

Sure thing bro. That is IF you have the might to do it.

[Hippostania]

don't give me your sarcasm. answer the question. are you afraid to say yes?

again, look at how the roma are treated today.

I already answered your purely hypothetical question which is not possible in real life.

And why shouldn't a private homeowner be allowed to decide to whom he wants to rent his house? If he doesn't want to rent it to someone, that is purely his choice. Not yours. You do not own the house.

[Chinese Regions]

How in the hell is marriage equality discrimination? Like seriously, what the fuck?

Ah, sorry. I forgot that in my second example the government had allowed gay marriage, not banned it.

So yeah, it should be like this
Example 1 is a private person setting rules in his own, private entity. People who disagree with the rules are free to seek other businessess to satisfy their needs.
Example 2 is the government has legalized something that many people disagree with, in this gay marriage. However, this does not violate anyone's rights. Some people might disagree with gay marriage, but the fact that it's legal does not violate their rights.

There's a difference between free speech; writing up a "White's Only" sign and actually banning non-white people from the premises.

[The Steel Magnolia]

As I've already pointed out, the irony is that in the midst of his bizarre diatribe he's actually advocating the tactics the USSR used to deal with dissidents, all the while criticising communists for their supposed tendency to build societies which end up like the USSR.

I saw! It amused me, greatly.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Wait, does this mean we can arrest Jesus and the authors of the various bits of the bible for advocating the killing of adulterers?

I wish we could. Incitement to commit a crime, lets nail those fuckers.

Of course hun.

[Ovisterra]

How in the hell is marriage equality discrimination? Like seriously, what the fuck?

Ah, sorry. I forgot that in my second example the government had allowed gay marriage, not banned it.

So yeah, it should be like this
Example 1 is a private person setting rules in his own, private entity. People who disagree with the rules are free to seek other businessess to satisfy their needs.
Example 2 is the government has legalized something that many people disagree with, in this gay marriage. However, this does not violate anyone's rights. Some people might disagree with gay marriage, but the fact that it's legal does not violate their rights.

Exactly, so the examples are different. One is discriminating, one is destroying discrimination. They're opposites.

Anyway, we've gone horribly off-topic so I suggest we end this, set up a thread or take it to TG.

[Chinese Regions]

How in the hell is marriage equality discrimination? Like seriously, what the fuck?

Ah, sorry. I forgot that in my second example the government had allowed gay marriage, not banned it.

So yeah, it should be like this
Example 1 is a private person setting rules in his own, private entity. People who disagree with the rules are free to seek other businessess to satisfy their needs.
Example 2 is the government has legalized something that many people disagree with, in this gay marriage. However, this does not violate anyone's rights. Some people might disagree with gay marriage, but the fact that it's legal does not violate their rights.

Corporations are people but Governments aren't Yay logic

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

As I've already pointed out, the irony is that in the midst of his bizarre diatribe he's actually advocating the tactics the USSR used to deal with dissidents, all the while criticising communists for their supposed tendency to build societies which end up like the USSR.

I saw! It amused me, greatly.

"It's not ridiculous anti-freedom dictatorial nonsense if I'm doing it."

[Souseiseki]

don't give me your sarcasm. answer the question. are you afraid to say yes?

again, look at how the roma are treated today.

I already answered your purely hypothetical question which is not possible in real life.

And why shouldn't a private homeowner be allowed to decide to whom he wants to rent his house? If he doesn't want to rent it to someone, that is purely his choice. Not yours. You do not own the house.

oh, so you're ok with it. cool.

how is it not possible? look at how japan used to be. look at the roma now. do you seriously think that there is no place where minorities actually suffer widespread discrimination? fuck, i feel like i'd be cheating if i went back in time for examples.

because you can't force people out of communities and refuse to give them food and other services because "fuck you nigger, that's why". if you don't already see the problem with this i'm not sure where to go from here. apartheid4lyfe.