Should democracy get tough on communist party's in the west?

[Qoria]

Democracy is not the opposite of communism.
Communism is not the opposite of democracy.

Democracy is a system of government, in which power is giving to the people through the ability to elect their leader.

Communism is a political ideal based on the ideal of equality and the empowering of the working class.

Political ideals and system of governments are two different things.

Democracy should not crack down on communism, it should focus on things that will actually threaten democracy. Like other systems of government.

[Individual]

The other one was me. Nah, j/k. But I seriously think he would be more for imprisoning the members or just outlawing the formation of the party.

Cool! As oppressed political minority, now, I guess I get to blow up random people and shit and be called a freedom fighter.

I like it.

*tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick...*

Do as you please, but prepare to take responsibility and suffer the consequences.

[Harkback Union]

^This.

This^

^This^

[Hippostania]

I am so waiting to hear Hippostania's opinion on this issue.

Good thing I'm here just for that.

While I am a firm believer in freedom of speech, I do not think that advocating criminal activities, especially ones that violate basic natural rights like property rights which I am a firm believer of, should be legal. As long as the communists work within the framework of a representative democracy, denounce all forms of violent activity and do not intend to violate anyone's property rights, for example, by nationalizing companies or unfairly taxing high-wealth individuals or organizations.

If the communists manage to do that, then sure. Let them participate in the political process. This will prevent crazy college stalinists from participating and allows more sensible, "liberal" commies to participate without being shadowed by marxists.

[Ovisterra]

intend to violate anyone's property rights, for example, by nationalizing companies or unfairly taxing high-wealth individuals or organizations.

Did you seriously just go down the "taxes are theft" route?

[Hippostania]

intend to violate anyone's property rights, for example, by nationalizing companies or unfairly taxing high-wealth individuals or organizations.

Did you seriously just go down the "taxes are theft" route?

They are, but they're a necessary evil. I meant that as long as they don't unfairly (imo, anything above 40%) tax anyone to oblivion, I'm fine with taxes. What I am not fine with is idiots screaming "TAX THE RICH 99% TAX RATE EBUL RICH I AM SO JEALOUS IF I'M NOT RICH ANYONE ELSE SHOULDN'T BE EITHER"

[Divair]

Even though most "communist" parties are just authoritarian Stalinists or fascists in disguise whom I absolutely despise, no. Preserving democracy by destroying democracy is rather counter-productive.

[Individual]

I am so waiting to hear Hippostania's opinion on this issue.

Good thing I'm here just for that.

While I am a firm believer in freedom of speech, I do not think that advocating criminal activities, especially ones that violate basic natural rights like property rights which I am a firm believer of, should be legal. As long as the communists work within the framework of a representative democracy, denounce all forms of violent activity and do not intend to violate anyone's property rights, for example, by nationalizing companies or unfairly taxing high-wealth individuals or organizations.

If the communists manage to do that, then sure. Let them participate in the political process. This will prevent crazy college stalinists from participating and allows more sensible, "liberal" commies to participate without being shadowed by marxists.

So, of all the things left-wing, you oppose progressive taxation and any nationalization of any businesses. How about, you know, welfare safety net and equality (anti-discrimination, anti-favoring or preferring, which mostly means affirmative action, cronyism and nepotism)?

Just some words to the wise: in NationStates, you are more than likely to get hammers banging on your head and sickles slitting your throat. Just saying, but you have probably already noticed it since you have been here longer than I have.

[Hippostania]

So, of all the things left-wing, you oppose progressive taxation and any nationalization of any businesses. How about, you know, welfare safety net and equality (anti-discrimination, anti-favoring or preferring, which mostly means affirmative action, cronyism and nepotism)?

I believe in a small government. Government's only duties should be maintaining law and order and making sure that laws are uoheld through the military and police, in addition to maintaing courts. Everything else from social welfare to ice cream parlors is an area in which government shouldn't participate at all. Regarding equality, I believe that private entities should have a full right to choose their customers and employees, and once again, government shouldn't interfere.

Just some words to the wise: in NationStates, you are more than likely to get hammers banging on your head and sickles slitting your throat. Just saying, but you have probably already noticed it since you have been here longer than I have.

I have, that's what I'm here. Can't let all these leftists keep living in their left-wing echo chamber

[Souseiseki]

I am so waiting to hear Hippostania's opinion on this issue.

Good thing I'm here just for that.

While I am a firm believer in freedom of speech, I do not think that advocating criminal activities, especially ones that violate basic natural rights like property rights which I am a firm believer of, should be legal. As long as the communists work within the framework of a representative democracy, denounce all forms of violent activity and do not intend to violate anyone's property rights, for example, by nationalizing companies or unfairly taxing high-wealth individuals or organizations.

If the communists manage to do that, then sure. Let them participate in the political process. This will prevent crazy college stalinists from participating and allows more sensible, "liberal" commies to participate without being shadowed by marxists.

what if they buy the assets they nationalize? :-)

[Souseiseki]

I believe that private entities should have a full right to choose their customers and employees, and once again, government shouldn't interfere.

I do not think that advocating criminal activities, especially ones that violate basic natural rights like property rights which I am a firm believer of, should be legal.

grats welcome to everywhere ever

unfairly taxing high-wealth individuals or organizations.

but hippo-kun, surely all tax is theft?!

[Individual]

So, of all the things left-wing, you oppose progressive taxation and any nationalization of any businesses. How about, you know, welfare safety net and equality (anti-discrimination, anti-favoring or preferring, which mostly means affirmative action, cronyism and nepotism)?

I believe in a small government. Government's only duties should be maintaining law and order and making sure that laws are uoheld through the military and police, in addition to maintaing courts. Everything else from social welfare to ice cream parlors is an area in which government shouldn't participate at all. Regarding equality, I believe that private entities should have a full right to choose their customers and employees, and once again, government shouldn't interfere.

So, you're a minarchist, amirite? Then we seem to have a nice slice of common ground underneath us, excluding my anarcho-egoist attitude of not caring much about the regime, since I will still abuse the hell out of it as long as it rejects inviolable liberties every individuals ought to have, with me being at the head. As long as I'm doing well, the state can stay, but if not, thing are going to get a little bit more anarchic. As with civil liberties, answer me straight. Are you libertarian or minarchist on them, too? Or are you a liberal/libertarian conservative? Tell me more.

Just some words to the wise: in NationStates, you are more than likely to get hammers banging on your head and sickles slitting your throat. Just saying, but you have probably already noticed it since you have been here longer than I have.

I have, that's what I'm here. Can't let all these leftists keep living in their left-wing echo chamber

Stalinists in my opinion are all the same as fascists and all other authoritarians from left to right. I deem anarchist and libertarian leftists a lot more desirable than authoritarian right-wingers though. Objectivists, libertarians andd individualists in general are the most desirable to me, since I see objectivism, libertarianism, ancap, voluntaryism, individualism and the like as appropriate transitional stages to egoism.

[Nua Corda]

Misleading poll is misleading.

[Jassysworth 1]

yes because communists advocate treason... the complete destruction of the state.

And their policies would completely destroy everything we have been working towards for the last several hundred years...

We need to watch the communists carefully or they could launch the next Cultural Revolution or Five Year Plan/Massacre...

[Ovisterra]

yes because communists advocate treason... the complete destruction of the state.

You make it sound like "destruction of the state" involves massacres and nuclear armament.

And their policies would completely destroy everything we have been working towards for the last several hundred years...

And what would that be, exactly? What have we been working towards?

We need to watch the communists carefully or they could launch the next Cultural Revolution or Five Year Plan/Massacre...

Ha. Ha ha. Ha ha ha ha.

No.

[Hippostania]

what if they buy the assets they nationalize? :-)

Even if the owners of the company in question would agree to that, whose money would the government use to buy it? Surely they couldn't afford to buy a whole company, since the government revenue is so low due to taxes.. There would be only enough taxes to cover basic expenses for the police and the military!

*pic snippy*

Don't like it? Don't go there! Just like gay marriage, if it's legalized, nobody will force you to marry a gay person.

but hippo-kun, surely all tax is theft?!

It is, but unfortunately some taxation is necessary. It should be kept to bare minimum though: Military, police and the courts. That's it.

So, you're a minarchist, amirite? Then we seem to have a nice slice of common ground underneath us, excluding my anarcho-egoist attitude of not caring much about the regime, since I will still abuse the hell out of it as long as it rejects inviolable liberties every individuals ought to have, with me being at the head. As long as I'm doing well, the state can stay, but if not, thing are going to get a little bit more anarchic. As with civil liberties, answer me straight. Are you libertarian or minarchist on them, too? Or are you a liberal/libertarian conservative? Tell me more.

I tend not to classify myself as a minarchist due to my anti-drug ideals and neoconservative foreign policy. I prefer to call myself a moderate conservative.

Stalinists in my opinion are all the same as fascists and all other authoritarians from left to right. I deem anarchist and libertarian leftists a lot more desirable than authoritarian right-wingers though. Objectivists, libertarians andd individualists in general are the most desirable to me, since I see objectivism, libertarianism, ancap, voluntaryism, individualism and the like as appropriate transitional stages to egoism.

I agree, I really don't see much difference between stalinism, hitlerist national socialism or most extreme forms of fascism; they are all authoritarian left-wing ideologies.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

yes because communists advocate treason... the complete destruction of the state.

And? They wouldn't oppose the idea of government. We're not advocating Mad Max here.

And their policies would completely destroy everything we have been working towards for the last several hundred years...

Debatable.

We need to watch the communists carefully or they could launch the next Cultural Revolution or Five Year Plan/Massacre...

Do you seriously not listen every time you're shown that China and the USSR have little or nothing to do with communism?

[Ovisterra]

*pic snippy*

Don't like it? Don't go there! Just like gay marriage, if it's legalized, nobody will force you to marry a gay person.

You're really comparing marriage equality to racism. Really?

[Imperiatom]

And i said that when?

When you suggested the party should be outlawed (and thus imprisoning all people who identify with it).

I mean, seriously, if you move the goalposts any further they'll be out of the stadium.

I gave a question with four possible answers, and you decide that i take the view of two of the possible answers despite my edit to the OP. One may suggest issues for debate that are not one's own viewpoint.

[Souseiseki]

Don't like it? Don't go there! Just like gay marriage, if it's legalized, nobody will force you to marry a gay person.

surely the market will solve the problem

i'm almost definitely going to force you to eat in the same building as jews and negros. i'm sorry but that's just the way it is. ):

hell, might be some gay people in there too. eww.

It is, but unfortunately some taxation is necessary. It should be kept to bare minimum though: Military, police and the courts. That's it.

so you admit that taxation requires violating peoples property rights, but will do it anyway? are you sure you're not going to end up banning yourself?

[Hippostania]

You're really comparing marriage equality to racism. Really?

No, I am comparing private individuals' rights to do whatever they want as long as they don't directly involve hurting anyone. Don't like gay marriage? Don't marry a gay. Don't like Christianity? Stop going to the church. Don't like a certain brand or company? Boycott it. Don't like that some guy is racist and owns a business? Then don't go there.

[Souseiseki]

You're really comparing marriage equality to racism. Really?

No, I am comparing private individuals' rights to do whatever they want as long as they don't directly involve hurting anyone. Don't like gay marriage? Don't marry a gay. Don't like Christianity? Stop going to the church. Don't like a certain brand or company? Boycott it. Don't like that some guy is racist and owns a business? Then don't go there.

since you posted at the same time i just wanna make sure you don't miss my post :-)

see, told ya the market would solve it

[Hippostania]

surely the market will solve the problem

i'm almost definitely going to force you to eat in the same building as jews and negros. i'm sorry but that's just the way it is. ):

hell, might be some gay people in there too. eww.

Surely you shouldn't interfere with other people's private business?

so you admit that taxation requires violating peoples property rights, but will do it anyway? are you sure you're not going to end up banning yourself?

As I said, taxation a necessary evil that must be strictly kept at the lowest possible level.

[The VDNKh]

Personally, being a Marxist-Leninist, i wish they'd just imprison all the "communists" in the parliament.

True communism is not obtained in the parliament of a corrupt, capitalist nation, rather in the streets, in the factories, in the demonstrations and in the revolutionary circles.
Accepting Democracy as we intend it today is just defecting the cause.

[Imperiatom]

Parties that don't accept and endorse a liberal democratic order should not be allowed to take part in the political process. And no, it's not 'anti-democratic'.

Banning a party for any reason is anti-democratic. Anyone who can drum up enough support to be on the ballot has the right to be on the ballot.

Interesting concept! Do you believe that for any situation?