Who was the worst American President

[The Archregimancy]

Buchanan, followed by Andrew Johnson, Warren G. Harding, and maybe Franklin Pierce.

I'm always surprised that there's much of a debate beyond those four; and any attempt to name a post-WWII president just demonstrates how short modern historical memories are.

[Free Detroit]

Total disarmament would never have happened in a million years. Had they ever seriously moved towards that, Gorby would have been couped immediately.

Couped immediately... instead of a couple months later

Seriously, though, the USSR was never the aggressor in the arms race, and had been making genuine advances toward peace and normalized relations since Stalin. Truman, as I named him worst, was the incompetent asshat who let his advisors start the Cold War. From that point, the USSR were always the ones responding to American escalation.

Total disarmament would be a pipe dream, sure, but the Soviets had a significant interest in major disarmament and cooling everything down.

[The empire of Washington]

Summary of what makes America America...

It's like this because of Reagan.

He must of done something right you don't come within 2500 votes of carrying every state by doing nothing.

[Free Detroit]

It's like this because of Reagan.

He must of done something right you don't come within 2500 votes of carrying every state by doing nothing.

He never won my home state.

[Divair]

It's like this because of Reagan.

He must of done something right you don't come within 2500 votes of carrying every state by doing nothing.

Of course he did something right. He looked and sounded good.

[United Commonwealths of America]

I dont know half of the Presidents in American history, but from what i know George Bush and Theodore Roosevelt lay pretty low in my list (mainly because they were so aggressive in their foreign policies)

[Nationalist State of Knox]

It's like this because of Reagan.

He must of done something right you don't come within 2500 votes of carrying every state by doing nothing.

Of course he did something, he used over-inflated rhetoric to stir up anti-Communist sentiment.

[Free Detroit]

I dont know half of the Presidents in American history, but from what i know George Bush and Theodore Roosevelt lay pretty low in my list (mainly because they were so aggressive in their foreign policies)

Say what you want about his policies... Teddy Roosevelt rode a moose.

[Baiynistan]

Johnson was an A-hole, as was Nixon. JFK's grandiose and melodramatically antagonistic rhetoric nearly got the world all boom-boomed. Clinton was (likely) a rapist who gave quasi-objectivists too much financial control, creating a flimsy economic bubble that popped something fierce on the following administration and is still needing damage control today, he allowed his wife to draw out the genocide in Bosnia because stopping it would take publicity away from her flimsy initiatives and abused his powers giving official pardons to his fraudulent in-laws. Wilson got the US involved with WWI and the Russian Civil War.

[Divair]

I dont know half of the Presidents in American history, but from what i know George Bush and Theodore Roosevelt lay pretty low in my list (mainly because they were so aggressive in their foreign policies)

Say what you want about his policies... Teddy Roosevelt rode a moose.

At least he was a progressive.




Oh, and Nixon is even way further down there than you people think he is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woF4IFD3PIs

[The Tiger Kingdom]

Total disarmament would never have happened in a million years. Had they ever seriously moved towards that, Gorby would have been couped immediately.

Couped immediately... instead of a couple months later

With more force this time.

Seriously, though, the USSR was never the aggressor in the arms race,

Aside from the incorrectness of that statement, I don't think you can seriously reduce the arms race to an "aggressor/aggressed" situation.
Both sides were constantly making ambiguous moves, and were very, very scared of each other.

and had been making genuine advances toward peace and normalized relations since Stalin.

Nope. Even after Stalin bit it (and god knows he had no particular love for disarmament, moronically hardcore realist that he was), Khrushchev and his various succesors had no interest in disarmament beyond using it as ideological padding in their speeches. Read K Blows Top, it's got some great Khrushchev quotes in there as to exactly what he thought disarmament was worth as an idea - nothing beyond hot air.
They wanted peace and normalized relations - on their terms. So did the US. And neither side could agree to those terms.

Truman, as I named him worst, was the incompetent asshat who let his advisors start the Cold War.

Yeah, I think Stalin had something to do with it too. You seriously think had FDR not died, Stalin would have been big friendly Uncle Joe forever? The man was a psychopath.

From that point, the USSR were always the ones responding to American escalation.

Berlin blockade? Unprovoked North Korean invasion of the South, supported by Soviet volunteers? Crushing the Hungary/Czech revolutions?
That's just so not correct.

[Free Detroit]

Johnson was an A-hole, as was Nixon. JFK's grandiose and melodramatically antagonistic rhetoric nearly got the world all boom-boomed. Clinton was (likely) a rapist who gave quasi-objectivists too much financial control, creating a flimsy economic bubble that popped something fierce on the following administration and is still needing damage control today, he allowed his wife to draw out the genocide in Bosnia because stopping it would take publicity away from her flimsy initiatives and abused his powers giving official pardons to his fraudulent in-laws. Wilson got the US involved with WWI and the Russian Civil War.

Clinton was a rapist?

[New Maldorainia]

Jimmy Carter

[The Tiger Kingdom]

Jimmy Carter

THE WORLD'S GREATEST MONSTER!

Johnson was an A-hole, as was Nixon. JFK's grandiose and melodramatically antagonistic rhetoric nearly got the world all boom-boomed. Clinton was (likely) a rapist who gave quasi-objectivists too much financial control, creating a flimsy economic bubble that popped something fierce on the following administration and is still needing damage control today, he allowed his wife to draw out the genocide in Bosnia because stopping it would take publicity away from her flimsy initiatives and abused his powers giving official pardons to his fraudulent in-laws. Wilson got the US involved with WWI and the Russian Civil War.

Clinton was a rapist?

That's a word anti-Clintonistas like to throw around a lot, usually right after accusing him and Hillary of killing Vince Foster.

[Lucius Valentine]

Should change the title to "Who was the best American President" since I pretty much dislike them all.
Only one I like at all is JFK, and he got killed...

[Free Detroit]

Yeah, I think Stalin had something to do with it too. You seriously think had FDR not died, Stalin would have been big friendly Uncle Joe forever? The man was a psychopath.

Sorry for the brevity, time for me to leave work and go home for a long holiday weekend...

I think if FDR would have lived, we would have had normal enough relations with the Soviets to avoid the Cold War. Yes. I do agree both of us might still have trended toward a permanent armaments industry, but that's a far cry from the way history unfolded. No, I'm not suggesting that Stalin or Khrushchev were genuinely keen on massive disarmament or something - far from it - but it's very likely the arms race would not have escalated as it did. Truman cut off all possibility of genuine, sustained peace. At least that would have been left open with FDR / Wallace.

Berlin blockade? Unprovoked North Korean invasion of the South, supported by Soviet volunteers? Crushing the Hungary/Czech revolutions?

If you're seriously comparing those actions to what the US did to secure hegemony in the Cold War, you're delirious.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

Yeah, I think Stalin had something to do with it too. You seriously think had FDR not died, Stalin would have been big friendly Uncle Joe forever? The man was a psychopath.

Sorry for the brevity, time for me to leave work and go home for a long holiday weekend...

Yeah, I got work to be doing too...Dammit.

I think if FDR would have lived, we would have had normal enough relations with the Soviets to avoid the Cold War.

I think we're not going to reconcile on that point. At best, all FDR could've done was delay the inevitable.
Unless he got re-elected literally forever, as he may have been trying to do.

Yes. I do agree both of us might still have trended toward a permanent armaments industry, but that's a far cry from the way history unfolded. No, I'm not suggesting that Stalin or Khrushchev were genuinely keen on massive disarmament or something - far from it - but it's very likely the arms race would not have escalated as it did.

Yeah, it probably would have been delayed 3-4 years.

Truman cut off all possibility of genuine, sustained peace. At least that would have been left open with FDR / Wallace.

What Truman was was conventional. He was not a genius. He was cautious. He knew Stalin was a tyrant and the USSR was a tyrannical state. So, he acted cautiously and conventionally and realistically to secure American interests.
It wasn't FDR, but it was better than simply assuming Stalin and the US are war-vet buddies forever.

From that point, the USSR were always the ones responding to American escalation.

Berlin blockade? Unprovoked North Korean invasion of the South, supported by Soviet volunteers? Crushing the Hungary/Czech revolutions?

If you're seriously comparing those actions to what the US did to secure hegemony in the Cold War, you're delirious.

Ah, but that's not what you were debating a post ago. You said the USSR was NEVER the aggressor, not that it was comparable.
This handful of examples (I can find many, many more), even if they don't convince you of a parity of threat, prove the USSR's aggression.

[Azentinia]

Wilson. I do not know of a greater fool or hypocrite to have ever be elected to the office of President of the United States. This is a man who radicalised the American delegation at the Paris Peace Conference of 1919, inviting none of the Republican senators who then controlled both the Senate and the House. If he had of listened to advice and invited a few of them to achieve a meaningful compromise in American foreign policy, the Treaty of Versailles might have been ratified by the United States, and World War 2 might have been averted. Due to his personal dislikes and squeamishness he tossed the world into a League of Nations without the United States, and ultimately, the worst war in human history. Besides that, Wilson was a complete hypocrite when it came to self-determinism. He explicitly ignored all petitions for Vietnamese, Irish, and Philippine independence during the Conference, yet forced recognition of several new unstable states by Britain and France, and generally made life a living hell for any country attempting to ensure to annexation of their hand-won and hard-fought territory.

[Forsher]

The 21st President.

Whaddaya got against Fancy Chester?
In the words of a journalist of the time, "No duty was neglected in his administration, and no adventurous project alarmed the nation."
Not too horrible, I would think?

It was a reference to Die Hard 3... He's a major plot point.

In all seriousness I don't know enough American Presidents to make an informed judgement and I'm not really inclined to do anything about that. If I'm going to remember a foreign country's history it's going to one that I find interesting.

Of the one's I am aware of... none of them are really that bad. (I've rejected JFK, LBJ, Nixon, George W. Bush and Obama. The last because he's a current event, the fourth I looked at for our terrorism unit in history last year and the previous three from Vietnam and a bit from Black Civil Rights*.)

I've heard Herbert Hoover did nothing, so him.

*Which despite what I just said was okay and certainly I looked forward to it more than "NZ's search for security"... which we never actually had enough time to do properly.

[Baiynistan]

Clinton was a rapist?

Several accounts from multiple women form a pretty convincing modus operandi (one that state resources and funds were used to smear and discredit). http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2008/01/the_case_against_hillary_clinton.html

[Radiatia]

Warren G Harding and Franklin Pierce were pretty bad. Millard Fillmore wasn't too crash hot either. Andrew Johnson and james Buchanan were also quite terrible, but I feel too stereotypical for naming them.

[National Socialists of America]

Bush.

[Forsher]

Should change the title to "Who was the best American President" since I pretty much dislike them all.
Only one I like at all is JFK, and he got killed...

Ah, I know a bit about this guy.

Getting killed was the best thing that ever happened to his reputation.

[Radiatia]

The 21st President.

Personally I'd put Chester A. Arthur in the "meh" pile. He wasn't a bad President, he just also wasn't a good President.

[Radiatia]

Should change the title to "Who was the best American President" since I pretty much dislike them all.
Only one I like at all is JFK, and he got killed...

Why do you like JFK? He's probably the most overrated President of the lot. When you look at what he did, he's got some pretty black marks next to his name. To the point that personally, in 1960, I would have voted for Nixon over Kennedy*.

*EDIT: Except actually, no I wouldn't because I'm not an American. But you get my point.