Should humans use population control?

[Sibirsky]

The most proven and effective method of human population control is: education, racial and sexual quality, and financial security. Every country that has these things does not even have positive population growth except by immigration.

In other words: The way to make people stop having so many babies is to make sure they have the resources and education they need to stop themselves from doing so

we could just make it really expensive to have kids? tax children!

It already is really expensive to have kids. Trust me on this.

Average American kid born in 2007 will cost his parents $250,000 by the age of 18. This does not include college. I trust you.

[United Gordonopia]

Our population isn't bursting at the seams, there are plenty of resources to go around. One-third of my generation is missing due to birth control alone. We have the capacity worldwide for much higher food production, water production, etc. It's not like we're about to run out of oil (analysts in the 80's predicted it would all be gone by 2000, but we're still chugging, and some unused oil fields have refilled recently). The human-influenced global warming is nonsense. One good-size volcano puts out more CO₂ than all of human industry since the discovery of fire.

Economy lags 40 years behind population. The theory is that people spend the most money of their lives in their 40's, with kinds and all, so more people are buying, and the economy does better. Our economy is in the dumps, approximately 40 years since Roe v Wade (Roe apologized to me, in person, for having caused the mess called abortion). Coincedence?

Nonsense? One volcano puts out around 130 million tons according the the USGS survey. The US puts out over 6 billion every year. And what's that about oil being "refilled"? Oil takes millions of years to form, and humans have only been drilling oil on a large scale for a century. And as the population increases, the capacity for things like food production and water decreases. As there are more people, they move to cities, and those cities expand. When people need more space, they either build up (which we can't do forever) or they build out, taking over farmland in the process. As people use our fresh water (and there really isn't that much of it) there is less to go around.

[Tech-gnosis]

That China's one child policy has led to some really bad situations with parents killing off female babies in order to have sons, and then those sons being unable to find wives later on.

China's one child policy didn't lead to this. It merely exasperated what was already there.

[Norwrath]

the humans are saying that wolves have too high a population in my state and are hunting them. humans are filthy hypocrites who are destroying a world that's not even theirs. why does everybody think it's necessary to have multiple kids?

[Borinata]

I'm not sure why you think population increases cause inflation, it doesn't, it results from the monetary policies of national governments. That said, I would agree that I'd hate to find out the hard way just how many humans this planet can support. I must ask though, why is it the people who want to 'control the population' are also against the religions that preach you should keep it in your pants?

[Tech-gnosis]

Average American kid born in 2007 will cost his parents $250,000 by the age of 18. This does not include college. I trust you.

Is that with or without opportunity costs, like the lifelong wage reductions for women who take time off to raise their kids or take a less demanding job?

[United Gordonopia]

the humans are saying that wolves have too high a population in my state and are hunting them. humans are filthy hypocrites who are destroying a world that's not even theirs. why does everybody think it's necessary to have multiple kids?

If you don't have 2 kids, population will decrease (which can be good in some cases). Look at it like this: There are 40 people in the world, 20 male, 20 female. Each gets married, and has one child. This means there are 60 people, 20 of them are young. There just happens to be 10 males, and 10 females, and they marry each other, and each have 1 kid. This means there are 70 people. Then, the original generation gets old and dies off. Let's say in that time, half of that new generation of 10 people has had kids, so that means that now, there are only 32 people in the world, and only a few of them can have children.

[Natapoc]

the humans are saying that wolves have too high a population in my state and are hunting them. humans are filthy hypocrites who are destroying a world that's not even theirs. why does everybody think it's necessary to have multiple kids?

Yeah that is really sad. The fact that humans will quickly claim that some group of animals must be culled due to overpopulation all the time while ignoring that they make up most of the population has not been lost to all of us...

[Sibirsky]

Average American kid born in 2007 will cost his parents $250,000 by the age of 18. This does not include college. I trust you.

Is that with or without opportunity costs, like the lifelong wage reductions for women who take time off to raise their kids or take a less demanding job?

Not sure. I read that in an article and don't remember. Give me a few minutes, I will try to find it.

[Katganistan]

So NSG, as the title said, should humans use any form of population control?

Have you visited your local pharmacy lately?
Have you read literature about voluntary sterilization (vasectomy and "getting one's tubes tied")?

[Barringtonia]

The current Economist has something to say on all this..

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.c ... d=14743589

SOMETIME in the next few years (if it hasn’t happened already) the world will reach a milestone: half of humanity will be having only enough children to replace itself. That is, the fertility rate of half the world will be 2.1 or below. This is the “replacement level of fertility”, the magic number that causes a country’s population to slow down and eventually to stabilise. According to the United Nations population division, 2.9 billion people out of a total of 6.5 billion were living in countries at or below this point in 2000-05. The number will rise to 3.4 billion out of 7 billion in the early 2010s and to over 50% in the middle of the next decade. The countries include not only Russia and Japan but Brazil, Indonesia, China and even south India.

[The Southron Nation]

No.

The Southron Nation will resist such calls for wholesale eradication of human life. these conclusions are drawn from scientific conclusions that have been disproven time and again. there is no global warming. there is no overpopulation. and there is no need to worry about dwindling resources. more than a century ago there were collectivist shills such as yourself calling for a immediate cessation of the harvesting of oil from the ground due to dwindling kerosene reserves. have we thus run out of kerosene? no. 40 years ago, collectivist shills such as yourself were making calls for an immediate reaction from the world gov'ts in order to prevent a global ice age. 30 years ago, those same fools - do not exclude yourself, esteemed emissary - realized that every human being in the world was going to starve to death b/c of our dwindling food resources. did we run out? no. 10 years after their call for gov't action to prevent global cooling and mass starvation, those same fools warned of global warming and an end of the scarcity of foodstuffs. their answers to all of these issues were the same as yours, gov't collectivism and control.

to summarize, The Southron Nation finds such calls as these to be ludicrous and laughable. collectivist controls lead only to further human suffering and poverty. we will NOT abide such nonsense in our nation.

...this isn't roleplay. The General forum is related to real life issues, not your nation.

you people are serious? jesus. i role played b/c i believed noone could be so outrageously obtuse to believe that nonsense unless they were playing the game. it doesnt really matter, b/c my RP answer is little different from my actual answer.

[United Gordonopia]

No.

The Southron Nation will resist such calls for wholesale eradication of human life. these conclusions are drawn from scientific conclusions that have been disproven time and again. there is no global warming. there is no overpopulation. and there is no need to worry about dwindling resources. more than a century ago there were collectivist shills such as yourself calling for a immediate cessation of the harvesting of oil from the ground due to dwindling kerosene reserves. have we thus run out of kerosene? no. 40 years ago, collectivist shills such as yourself were making calls for an immediate reaction from the world gov'ts in order to prevent a global ice age. 30 years ago, those same fools - do not exclude yourself, esteemed emissary - realized that every human being in the world was going to starve to death b/c of our dwindling food resources. did we run out? no. 10 years after their call for gov't action to prevent global cooling and mass starvation, those same fools warned of global warming and an end of the scarcity of foodstuffs. their answers to all of these issues were the same as yours, gov't collectivism and control.

to summarize, The Southron Nation finds such calls as these to be ludicrous and laughable. collectivist controls lead only to further human suffering and poverty. we will NOT abide such nonsense in our nation.

...this isn't roleplay. The General forum is related to real life issues, not your nation.

you people are serious? jesus. i role played b/c i believed noone could be so outrageously obtuse to believe that nonsense unless they were playing the game. it doesnt really matter, b/c my RP answer is little different from my actual answer.

If you think I'm dumb, look up bluth corporation.

[Sibirsky]

No.

The Southron Nation will resist such calls for wholesale eradication of human life. these conclusions are drawn from scientific conclusions that have been disproven time and again. there is no global warming. there is no overpopulation. and there is no need to worry about dwindling resources. more than a century ago there were collectivist shills such as yourself calling for a immediate cessation of the harvesting of oil from the ground due to dwindling kerosene reserves. have we thus run out of kerosene? no. 40 years ago, collectivist shills such as yourself were making calls for an immediate reaction from the world gov'ts in order to prevent a global ice age. 30 years ago, those same fools - do not exclude yourself, esteemed emissary - realized that every human being in the world was going to starve to death b/c of our dwindling food resources. did we run out? no. 10 years after their call for gov't action to prevent global cooling and mass starvation, those same fools warned of global warming and an end of the scarcity of foodstuffs. their answers to all of these issues were the same as yours, gov't collectivism and control.

to summarize, The Southron Nation finds such calls as these to be ludicrous and laughable. collectivist controls lead only to further human suffering and poverty. we will NOT abide such nonsense in our nation.

...this isn't roleplay. The General forum is related to real life issues, not your nation.

you people are serious? jesus. i role played b/c i believed noone could be so outrageously obtuse to believe that nonsense unless they were playing the game. it doesnt really matter, b/c my RP answer is little different from my actual answer.

If you think I'm dumb, look up bluth corporation.

Stop. This is not necessary.

[Sibirsky]

Average American kid born in 2007 will cost his parents $250,000 by the age of 18. This does not include college. I trust you.

Is that with or without opportunity costs, like the lifelong wage reductions for women who take time off to raise their kids or take a less demanding job?

$65,800+ income dual parent and $39,800+ income single parent families according to this table. In 2001 dollars so it is even more.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/articles/fa ... dscost.asp

[Mad hatters in jeans]

according to wiki the lions share of world population lives in asia...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population
From the table
(In Millions)
June 2008
Asia 4054
Africa 973
Europe 732
Latin America 577
Northern America 337
Oceana 34.3

Different regions have different rates of population growth. According to the above table, the growth in population of the different regions from 2000 to 2005 was:

237.771 million in Asia
92.293 million in Africa
38.052 million in Latin America
16.241 million in Northern America
1.955 million in Oceania
-3.264 million in Europe
383.047 million in the whole world
In the 20th century, the world saw the biggest increase in its population in human history due to lessening of the mortality rate in many countries due to medical advances and massive increase in agricultural productivity attributed to the Green Revolution.

So some way to reduce birth rate in asia...hmmm
education?

[Katganistan]

...this isn't roleplay. The General forum is related to real life issues, not your nation.

you people are serious? jesus. i role played b/c i believed noone could be so outrageously obtuse to believe that nonsense unless they were playing the game. it doesnt really matter, b/c my RP answer is little different from my actual answer.

If you think I'm dumb, look up bluth corporation.

Warned for flamebaiting.

[United Gordonopia]

...this isn't roleplay. The General forum is related to real life issues, not your nation.

you people are serious? jesus. i role played b/c i believed noone could be so outrageously obtuse to believe that nonsense unless they were playing the game. it doesnt really matter, b/c my RP answer is little different from my actual answer.

If you think I'm dumb, look up bluth corporation.

Warned for flamebaiting.[/quote]

Sorry, I worded that wrong. I meant to say that if he thought I was talking nonsense, look up bluth. That's ok right?

[Natapoc]

Sorry, I worded that wrong. I meant to say that if he thought I was talking nonsense, look up bluth. That's ok right?

I'm not a mod but no it is not okay. It is against the rules of the forum.

[United Gordonopia]

Sorry, I worded that wrong. I meant to say that if he thought I was talking nonsense, look up bluth. That's ok right?

I'm not a mod but no it is not okay. It is against the rules of the forum.

Then (I'm not a mod either, but...) I believe his post might have been flaming (but then of course, he's only a couple of days old).

Anyway, I acknowledge my mistake, it won't happen again.

[Katganistan]

...this isn't roleplay. The General forum is related to real life issues, not your nation.

you people are serious? jesus. i role played b/c i believed noone could be so outrageously obtuse to believe that nonsense unless they were playing the game. it doesnt really matter, b/c my RP answer is little different from my actual answer.

If you think I'm dumb, look up bluth corporation.

Warned for flamebaiting.

Sorry, I worded that wrong. I meant to say that if he thought I was talking nonsense, look up bluth. That's ok right?

No, it's not ok. Why on EARTH would you think it's ok to a) ridicule another poster and hold him up as being 'dumb' b) especially when said poster has not even posted an opinion in this thread?

You can attack other people's specific arguments. You can't attack other posters.

[Erich Dahmer]

I read somewhere that you could comfortably fit everyone in the world into an area the size of Alaska. I'm not sure if that's true but looking at a aerial photo of North America it's pretty obvious there's still plenty of room. This is also the reason I cannot understand some people claiming that we need to close our borders simply because America doesn't have enough room to accomodate everyone trying to get in. It looks pretty vacant to me.

[United Gordonopia]

Here's America at night:

That basically shows where large developed areas are. Most of the land without lights is made up of either protected land or farmland. There is unprotected, open land, but it will run out. If we want enough land to be able to sustain our population with food, and preserve anything natural, while at the same time living in 3,000 square foot houses with an acre of land, then we need to curb the growth of our population.

[Katganistan]

Here's America at night:

That basically shows where large developed areas are. Most of the land without lights is made up of either protected land or farmland. There is unprotected, open land, but it will run out. If we want enough land to be able to sustain our population with food, and preserve anything natural, while at the same time living in 3,000 square foot houses with an acre of land, then we need to curb the growth of our population.

Actually, that's America, Canada, Mexico, Central America, a bit of South America, and the Caribbean, but who's counting?

[United Gordonopia]

Here's America at night:

That basically shows where large developed areas are. Most of the land without lights is made up of either protected land or farmland. There is unprotected, open land, but it will run out. If we want enough land to be able to sustain our population with food, and preserve anything natural, while at the same time living in 3,000 square foot houses with an acre of land, then we need to curb the growth of our population.

Actually, that's America, Canada, Mexico, Central America, a bit of South America, and the Caribbean, but who's counting?

Yes, and all of that is America, isn't it?
As you said, America (north america), mexico (north/central america), canada (north america), south america, caribbian (sea in the americas).