Should humans use population control?

[United Gordonopia]

So NSG, as the title said, should humans use any form of population control? I will now proceed to lay out my argument in a "speech" similar to one of the debates I did on this topic:

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Imagine a world where gas costs $20.00 per gallon, inflation is so high that you practically need a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread, and there is not even room to put cremated dead. If the worlds population keeps increasing at the rate it is today, that could be a reality. Over the past century, our world's population has skyrocketed. In 1900, there were less then 1.7 billion people in the world. Now, there are over 6.7. According to a recent U.N. study, the world's population will begin a decline by 2100, as we will have reached our "carrying capacity". People living at that time will likely have to undergo economic and ecological crisis' ranging from famine and drought to severe

To start with, our rapidly increasing population is having a severe effect on the world. One effect is inflation. When there are more people, there are less resources to go around. Seeing as we are arguably going to run out of resources soon, this is very bad. Because there will be less supply, and more demand, prices will start to rise. Global Warming is another effect. There will be more people using more energy, and since most of the world hasn't transitioned to clean energy sources, pollution levels will skyrocket. Natural resources will also become scarce. We are already using tons of water and other resources at an alarming rate, and these will quickly run out.

Population Control isn't unproven, many attempts have been made, and there are many examples of success. China is possibly the most famous example with their one child policy. The Chinese government, along with other sources, have said that thanks to this program, China's population is as much as 300 million less then it would be had there been no such policy. India is another example. A widespread government campaign encouraging two children has led the the birthrate lowering. A third example is Iran with its family planning services. These services have allowed the population to become steady.

There are many methods of controlling population. Restricting the number of children is most famous. In very severe cases, such as Hong Kong, 1 child limits may be necessary. Hong Kong is running out of space so fast, there's barely room for the cremated dead. Less severely overpopulated areas could be limited to to, or even 3 children. Education is always one of the most successful methods of controlling population, shown by numerous studies conducted by groups ranging from governments to the United Nations. The United States, Japan, and the UK are very highly educated countries. They each have birth rates of 14.0, 8.3, and 12.0 per thousand respectively. Burkina Faso, Niger, and Guinea-Bissau are three of the least literate nations in the world, and they have birth rates of 44.0, 49.0, and 49.6 per thousand respectively. Emigration is a way to temporarily reduce population. People can move from more to less crowded areas, similar to diffusion, while more effective methods are instituted.

Many people, including a number of religious leaders, say that population control is wrong. They may believe that know, but when our population is out of control, they will regret it. Once reason, they say, is that it "kills millions of unborn children". If the child never existed as even a fetus in the first place, how can it be killed? They also say it harms the poorest nations by not allowing them to grow, yet the poorest nations tend to have the highest birth rates, and they are getting worse.

In conclusion, We need to act now. If the world's governments don't begin instituting population control soon, the number of people in the world will soon become impossible to control. This would have a severe affect on our world. If we don't want future generations to have a ruined planet, we need to start now.
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So NSG, what's your position?

[NERVUN]

That China's one child policy has led to some really bad situations with parents killing off female babies in order to have sons, and then those sons being unable to find wives later on.

It's a good idea in theory, but in practice, I think you'd end up needing unacceptable government intrusion to make it work and you'd STILL have problems.

[United Gordonopia]

That China's one child policy has led to some really bad situations with parents killing off female babies in order to have sons, and then those sons being unable to find wives later on.

It's a good idea in theory, but in practice, I think you'd end up needing unacceptable government intrusion to make it work and you'd STILL have problems.

Trust me, I know all about the situation in china. I could have easily mentioned it in my "speech", but this was mostly copied and pasted from an old debate. But, seeing as my family has adopted 2 girls from china, I am fairly knowledgeable about the situation.

[Soyut]

Either we come up with some kind of planned population control, or we leave it to nature. It is simply impossible for the human race to continue growing at it's current rate. We will run out of room.

[Natapoc]

The most proven and effective method of human population control is: education, racial and sexual quality, and financial security. Every country that has these things does not even have positive population growth except by immigration.

In other words: The way to make people stop having so many babies is to make sure they have the resources and education they need to stop themselves from doing so

[Soyut]

The most proven and effective method of human population control is: education, racial and sexual quality, and financial security. Every country that has these things does not even have positive population growth except by immigration.

In other words: The way to make people stop having so many babies is to make sure they have the resources and education they need to stop themselves from doing so

we could just make it really expensive to have kids? tax children!

[NERVUN]

That China's one child policy has led to some really bad situations with parents killing off female babies in order to have sons, and then those sons being unable to find wives later on.

It's a good idea in theory, but in practice, I think you'd end up needing unacceptable government intrusion to make it work and you'd STILL have problems.

Trust me, I know all about the situation in china. I could have easily mentioned it in my "speech", but this was mostly copied and pasted from an old debate. But, seeing as my family has adopted 2 girls from china, I am fairly knowledgeable about the situation.

Then you can understand why I point out that using China's One Child Policy as an example of population control doing ok is problematic.

[German Capitalists]

Actually, I've read that Rising Affluence increases Fertility rates. But no worries about Population Control, Europe's population is decreasing.

[Natapoc]

The most proven and effective method of human population control is: education, racial and sexual equality, and financial security. Every country that has these things does not even have positive population growth except by immigration.

In other words: The way to make people stop having so many babies is to make sure they have the resources and education they need to stop themselves from doing so

we could just make it really expensive to have kids? tax children!

[NERVUN]

The most proven and effective method of human population control is: education, racial and sexual quality, and financial security. Every country that has these things does not even have positive population growth except by immigration.

In other words: The way to make people stop having so many babies is to make sure they have the resources and education they need to stop themselves from doing so

we could just make it really expensive to have kids? tax children!

It already is really expensive to have kids. Trust me on this.

[Senestrum]

Either we come up with some kind of planned population control, or we leave it to nature. It is simply impossible for the human race to continue growing at it's current rate. We will run out of room.

We won't run out of room without centuries of accelerating growth. Rather, we'll run out of farmland first.

[United Gordonopia]

That China's one child policy has led to some really bad situations with parents killing off female babies in order to have sons, and then those sons being unable to find wives later on.

It's a good idea in theory, but in practice, I think you'd end up needing unacceptable government intrusion to make it work and you'd STILL have problems.

Trust me, I know all about the situation in china. I could have easily mentioned it in my "speech", but this was mostly copied and pasted from an old debate. But, seeing as my family has adopted 2 girls from china, I am fairly knowledgeable about the situation.

Then you can understand why I point out that using China's One Child Policy as an example of population control doing ok is problematic.

It is problematic, but it served its original purpose. Now, the restrictions are beginning to lift, and china is 300 million people smaller thanks to it.

[NERVUN]

That China's one child policy has led to some really bad situations with parents killing off female babies in order to have sons, and then those sons being unable to find wives later on.

It's a good idea in theory, but in practice, I think you'd end up needing unacceptable government intrusion to make it work and you'd STILL have problems.

Trust me, I know all about the situation in china. I could have easily mentioned it in my "speech", but this was mostly copied and pasted from an old debate. But, seeing as my family has adopted 2 girls from china, I am fairly knowledgeable about the situation.

Then you can understand why I point out that using China's One Child Policy as an example of population control doing ok is problematic.

It is problematic, but it served its original purpose. Now, the restrictions are beginning to lift, and china is 300 million people smaller thanks to it.

There's an old saying about means and ends and how one does not justify the other...

[Barringtonia]

Just on one point...

China: Hong Kong’s Country and Marine Parks

Hong Kong is a fine example of how pressures of urban intensification on protected areas can be resisted.

In the preface to his book Above the World: Stunning Satellite Images from above Earth, Sir Ranulph Fiennes (2005) describes widespread evidence of environmental damage around the globe, but makes special note of Hong Kong, “which glows at the space cameras in the orange hue that denotes fertile vegetation.” Indeed, in Hong Kong, where 7 million people live in an area of little more than 1,000 sq km, some 40% of the land is in protected areas, as well as much of the marine environment. This is one of the best illustrations in the world of how natural areas can thrive within or right next to dense cities.

The urbanized parts of Hong Kong, a special administrative region of China, are among the most crowded areas in the world. The city is a thriving business and financial center whose population is projected to grow to 8.7 million by 2050. There is constant demand to open up more land for urban development.

How has this pressure been successfully resisted? First of all, Hong Kong has strong land-use planning and regulation. This is essential, but certainly not enough by itself; many other places have regulations that look good in print but are not enforced. According to Fook Yee Wong, head of Hong Kong’s Country and Marine Parks, the key has been fostering a sense of community ownership by organizing citizen volunteers to carry out projects ranging from nature education to park clean-up; by involving NGOs, including those represented on government advisory bodies; by providing information to the public via publications, signage, and the Internet; and, not least, by encouraging his own staff to love nature (Wong 2005, 58-61). A citizens’ support group, Friends of the Country Parks, while recognizing that Hong Kong in many respects “already does very well” believes “a comprehensive conservation policy would assist the preservation and management of biodiversity” (Dudgeon and Corlett 2004, 262).

Web sites: Hong Kong Country and Marine Parks: http://www.afcd.gov.hk (Cantonese/English). Friends of the Country Parks: http://www.focp.org.hk (Cantonese/English).

We're fine.

[Natapoc]

The most proven and effective method of human population control is: education, racial and sexual quality, and financial security. Every country that has these things does not even have positive population growth except by immigration.

In other words: The way to make people stop having so many babies is to make sure they have the resources and education they need to stop themselves from doing so

we could just make it really expensive to have kids? tax children!

It already is really expensive to have kids. Trust me on this.

lol exactly. But look at the population growth in, for example, western Europe. You will find that the countries where education and economic security are highest within Europe the population growth rate is the lowest. If the whole world were reproducing at the rate that the united states and western Europe are: we would have a net population decrease every year.

In both Europe and America however, the poorest and least educated are the ones who have the most children. Children are seen as a type of social security system. You know that if you have 8 kids at least one of them will survive to be a productive adult who will take care of you in your old age.

[The Southron Nation]

No.

The Southron Nation will resist such calls for wholesale eradication of human life. these conclusions are drawn from scientific conclusions that have been disproven time and again. there is no global warming. there is no overpopulation. and there is no need to worry about dwindling resources. more than a century ago there were collectivist shills such as yourself calling for a immediate cessation of the harvesting of oil from the ground due to dwindling kerosene reserves. have we thus run out of kerosene? no. 40 years ago, collectivist shills such as yourself were making calls for an immediate reaction from the world gov'ts in order to prevent a global ice age. 30 years ago, those same fools - do not exclude yourself, esteemed emissary - realized that every human being in the world was going to starve to death b/c of our dwindling food resources. did we run out? no. 10 years after their call for gov't action to prevent global cooling and mass starvation, those same fools warned of global warming and an end of the scarcity of foodstuffs. their answers to all of these issues were the same as yours, gov't collectivism and control.

to summarize, The Southron Nation finds such calls as these to be ludicrous and laughable. collectivist controls lead only to further human suffering and poverty. we will NOT abide such nonsense in our nation.

[Roten]

Our population isn't bursting at the seams, there are plenty of resources to go around. One-third of my generation is missing due to birth control alone. We have the capacity worldwide for much higher food production, water production, etc. It's not like we're about to run out of oil (analysts in the 80's predicted it would all be gone by 2000, but we're still chugging, and some unused oil fields have refilled recently). The human-influenced global warming is nonsense. One good-size volcano puts out more CO₂ than all of human industry since the discovery of fire.

Economy lags 40 years behind population. The theory is that people spend the most money of their lives in their 40's, with kinds and all, so more people are buying, and the economy does better. Our economy is in the dumps, approximately 40 years since Roe v Wade (Roe apologized to me, in person, for having caused the mess called abortion). Coincedence?

[Lackadaisical2]

TL;DR

Yes they should.

[Weylara]

The most proven and effective method of human population control is: education, racial and sexual quality, and financial security. Every country that has these things does not even have positive population growth except by immigration.

In other words: The way to make people stop having so many babies is to make sure they have the resources and education they need to stop themselves from doing so

Resources=contraceptives,
Education= Any idiot over 13 knows where babies come from.

[United Gordonopia]

No.

The Southron Nation will resist such calls for wholesale eradication of human life. these conclusions are drawn from scientific conclusions that have been disproven time and again. there is no global warming. there is no overpopulation. and there is no need to worry about dwindling resources. more than a century ago there were collectivist shills such as yourself calling for a immediate cessation of the harvesting of oil from the ground due to dwindling kerosene reserves. have we thus run out of kerosene? no. 40 years ago, collectivist shills such as yourself were making calls for an immediate reaction from the world gov'ts in order to prevent a global ice age. 30 years ago, those same fools - do not exclude yourself, esteemed emissary - realized that every human being in the world was going to starve to death b/c of our dwindling food resources. did we run out? no. 10 years after their call for gov't action to prevent global cooling and mass starvation, those same fools warned of global warming and an end of the scarcity of foodstuffs. their answers to all of these issues were the same as yours, gov't collectivism and control.

to summarize, The Southron Nation finds such calls as these to be ludicrous and laughable. collectivist controls lead only to further human suffering and poverty. we will NOT abide such nonsense in our nation.

...this isn't roleplay. The General forum is related to real life issues, not your nation.

[Barringtonia]

Specific issues with population control, and if China's the example then so be it..

Previously mentioned infanticide of females creating a 117:100 ratio of males to females
The 'xiaohuangdi' syndrome whereby the sole child is mollycoddled by two parents and two sets of grandparents.
China will soon face an enormous issue where it's young will be very much in the minority while having to support a large aged population.

Focusing on limiting children is the wrong way of looking at it, we should be thinking about how to either extend the working life of the aged or putting in a mass euthanasia program.

Euthanasia will lead to a better life for youth in Asia

See what I did there?

[Tech-gnosis]

Actually, I've read that Rising Affluence increases Fertility rates. But no worries about Population Control, Europe's population is decreasing.

From where? Malthus? Looking at the historical record of the last couple centuries as the affluence of a nation increases fertility rates decrease.

[Sibirsky]

That China's one child policy has led to some really bad situations with parents killing off female babies in order to have sons, and then those sons being unable to find wives later on.

It's a good idea in theory, but in practice, I think you'd end up needing unacceptable government intrusion to make it work and you'd STILL have problems.

In addition, now China faces another problem. They have a large population of retirees, or soon to be retirees, and a (relatively) small population to work (and pay taxes). I know, I know, they will use their $2 trillion in reserves to offset some of the deficit. What will you do when they stop lending to us? China's problem is our problem as well. This is also true in other countries. Baby boomers are beginning to retire and social security is bust. I am against all population control policies. 9 times out of 10, the unintended consequences are far greater that the problem the policy tried to solve.

[Natapoc]

The most proven and effective method of human population control is: education, racial and sexual quality, and financial security. Every country that has these things does not even have positive population growth except by immigration.

In other words: The way to make people stop having so many babies is to make sure they have the resources and education they need to stop themselves from doing so

Resources=contraceptives,
Education= Any idiot over 13 knows where babies come from.

Hi Waylara, I'm not talking about sex ed: Although that probably helps too.

I guess I should have specified: People with formal education past high school (college, university, ect) make many less babies and in countries where the opportunity to pursue such education is nearly ubiquitous the population growth rate (for both educated and uneducated) is non positive when combined with financial security.

Therefore the solution to global population growth would seem to be to provide good education (university, college level schooling) and good jobs with a social safety net to make sure people don't think they need to have kids in order to survive as an older person.

[Undermen (Ancient)]

Do you guys have a plan to impose pop control on the third/developing world?





Western countries have seem to have their populations in check. Whites aren't having many babies, especially Europeans.