Is the EU likely to unite?

[Divair]

Russia might be a slightly pissed.

Actually, the US would be far more pissed about it.

As if we really gave a fuck, though.

I don't know, man, that new free trade agreement might make them happy that regulations and what not will be further standardized.

[CTALNH]

Either you shoot them or indoctrinate them.

I have to disagree with Comrade CTALNH here.

actually it has logic.
Rich families will make their children hate us.
So either you shoot them or take their children away and then teach how to become proper citizens

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

To get back on topic, assuming the EU were going to unite would there be a war of any kind?
I doubt it.

No. There'd probably be small groups of lunatic nationalists, and UKIP and their ilk like the PVV across the continent would be really pissed, but I doubt that Farage and his ilk would actually dare take up weapons. They'd just shout.

[Libertarian California]

You sound like a Christian. You throw it quotes for people with a mythical status and think it somehow proves your point.


The Bible is true because the Bible says it's true.

Capitalism is a religion, it advocates complete devotion to profits.

No it's not. Capitalists aren't devoted to any tangible thing. Each capitalist is an individual looking to pursue his own goals and dreams. Oftentimes, it is profits, but not always. Capitalism can't be a religion because it varies for each person because it is an individualist ideology.

Capitalism is more like a personality.

[Free Council Communes]

As a perfect example of this, nothing would prevent FST here from running "To the right" of me if we were to suddenly turn the UK syndicalist.
If I understand correctly, he's somewhat more minarchist than I am, and yet both of us are "socialists" despite being pretty big on market forces and such, and democracy.

Well, yeah. There are all sorts of things chasing around my mind which I haven't quite sorted out yet; hopefully they'll be something properly coherent by the end of the year.

Essentially, I'm somewhat neutral towards the market; I can accept its necessity in the current world state of affairs and for a time after the revolution, but ideally I'd like to see a situation eventually where labour is mechanised and sufficiently efficient that it produces enough for everyone, eliminating the market as a thing.

But post-revolution, I wouldn't have a problem with capitalists doing their own thing and forming capitalist communes or capitalist businesses in general, provided it was with the common consent of those involved and that they were willing to be taxed to an extent.

I mean, in the end I'd like to see Europe as a collection of communes under a night-watchman state; essentially a vastly devolved EU, but one in which there is nonetheless the potential to act on the world stage through elected and recallable officials, before an eventual transition to full communism if the majority of those within the minarchist EU were in favour.

Exactly. You are not a market abolitionist, you are a bourgeois Mutualist. I myself believe parecon to be the best system for market abolitionism.

[Divair]

No it's not. Capitalists aren't devoted to any tangible thing. Each capitalist is an individual looking to pursue his own goals and dreams. Oftentimes, it is profits, but not always. Capitalism can't be a religion because it varies for each person because it is an individualist ideology.

Capitalism is more like a personality.

I'm a capitalist and I'm not devoted to profits. What now? Universe explodes?

[Ostroeuropa]

To get back on topic, assuming the EU were going to unite would there be a war of any kind?
I doubt it.

No. There'd probably be small groups of lunatic nationalists, and UKIP and their ilk like the PVV across the continent would be really pissed, but I doubt that Farage and his ilk would actually dare take up weapons. They'd just shout.

I sincerely doubt UKIP would, the BNP is another matter. I expect they and their equivalents may well fight.

[Free Council Communes]

I have to disagree with Comrade CTALNH here.

actually it has logic.
Rich families will make their children hate us.
So either you shoot them or take their children away and then teach how to become proper citizens

I do agree with re-educating the children, but I believe the parents right to free speech must be respected.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

No. There'd probably be small groups of lunatic nationalists, and UKIP and their ilk like the PVV across the continent would be really pissed, but I doubt that Farage and his ilk would actually dare take up weapons. They'd just shout.

I sincerely doubt UKIP would, the BNP is another matter. I expect they and their equivalents may well fight.

And they'd be killed in the streets if they took up arms, because there's not many of them and they have the military potential of the average pub at half past three on a Saturday afternoon.

[Libertarian California]

No it's not. Capitalists aren't devoted to any tangible thing. Each capitalist is an individual looking to pursue his own goals and dreams. Oftentimes, it is profits, but not always. Capitalism can't be a religion because it varies for each person because it is an individualist ideology.

Capitalism is more like a personality.

I'm a capitalist and I'm not devoted to profits. What now? Universe explodes?

Each capitalist is an individual looking to pursue his own goals and dreams. Oftentimes, it is profits, but not always

.

Communists say whaaaaaaaat?

[Saruhan]

No. There'd probably be small groups of lunatic nationalists, and UKIP and their ilk like the PVV across the continent would be really pissed, but I doubt that Farage and his ilk would actually dare take up weapons. They'd just shout.

I sincerely doubt UKIP would, the BNP is another matter. I expect they and their equivalents may well fight.

Yes, i'm sure the European armed forces, all 1.5 million of them, would be scared of their Muslamic ray guns

[Saruhan]

actually it has logic.
Rich families will make their children hate us.
So either you shoot them or take their children away and then teach how to become proper citizens

I do agree with re-educating the children, but I believe the parents right to free speech must be respected.

Re-educating? See, this is why I don't trust you whatsoever

[Divair]

I do agree with re-educating the children, but I believe the parents right to free speech must be respected.

Re-educating? See, this is why I don't trust you whatsoever

1984, man.

[Ostroeuropa]

I sincerely doubt UKIP would, the BNP is another matter. I expect they and their equivalents may well fight.

Yes, i'm sure the European armed forces, all 1.5 million of them, would be scared of their Muslamic ray guns

I'm more concerned that we'd either need prior constraint
(to stop them before they do anything technically illegal)
or they may blow up a building or something before we actually shoot them.

No doubt we'd win, i'm just concerned we may lose some key buildings in the process. Thats a big reason why decentralization is a must if the EU unites.
Organizing itself into a coherent national entity is going to be hard enough already, we don't need a vast amount of high level beaurocrats wiped out in the first weeks.

[Free Council Communes]

Capitalism is a religion, it advocates complete devotion to profits.

No it's not. Capitalists aren't devoted to any tangible thing. Each capitalist is an individual looking to pursue his own goals and dreams. Oftentimes, it is profits, but not always. Capitalism can't be a religion because it varies for each person because it is an individualist ideology.

Capitalism is more like a personality.

The idea that capitalism is some kind of individualist system motivated by greed is so pathetically incorrect.
Read the quotes I put here. And they are my own, I just had the characters I made up say them.

[Risottia]

Actually, the US would be far more pissed about it.

As if we really gave a fuck, though.

I don't know, man, that new free trade agreement might make them happy that regulations and what not will be further standardized.

Well, this means the US of A will need to conform their production to EU standards if they want to sell their goods here.
And, let's be honest about it: who DOES NOT want to have an easy access to the EU market?

[Free Council Communes]

I sincerely doubt UKIP would, the BNP is another matter. I expect they and their equivalents may well fight.

And they'd be killed in the streets if they took up arms, because there's not many of them and they have the military potential of the average pub at half past three on a Saturday afternoon.

UKIP is still not nearly as bad as you make it sound. I don't like them, but at least they oppose the EU.

[Ostroeuropa]

I don't know, man, that new free trade agreement might make them happy that regulations and what not will be further standardized.

Well, this means the US of A will need to conform their production to EU standards if they want to sell their goods here.
And, let's be honest about it: who DOES NOT want to have an easy access to the EU market?

Would you be opposed to the US having a say on those standards too?
In the event of a united EU, i'd be arguing pretty heavily for a new supra-national entity similar to it that'd include the US, maybe Japan, australia etc. as a production standard / free trade zone.

[Saruhan]

Yes, i'm sure the European armed forces, all 1.5 million of them, would be scared of their Muslamic ray guns

I'm more concerned that we'd either need prior constraint
(to stop them before they do anything technically illegal)
or they may blow up a building or something before we actually shoot them.

No doubt we'd win, i'm just concerned we may lose some key buildings in the process.

That's why I would suggest putting guards around main structure's in the Union's provinces, as well as putting the New Province's and former State's special forces on high alert for a month to a few weeks

[Arglorand]

Re-educating? See, this is why I don't trust you whatsoever

1984, man.

Ingsoc, the way to the future.

[Divair]

1984, man.

Ingsoc, the way to the future.

War is peace, etc. etc.

[Divair]

I don't know, man, that new free trade agreement might make them happy that regulations and what not will be further standardized.

Well, this means the US of A will need to conform their production to EU standards if they want to sell their goods here.
And, let's be honest about it: who DOES NOT want to have an easy access to the EU market?

And European companies will have easy access to the USA. Win-win. I honestly cannot wait for that agreement.

[Risottia]

Well, this means the US of A will need to conform their production to EU standards if they want to sell their goods here.
And, let's be honest about it: who DOES NOT want to have an easy access to the EU market?

Would you be opposed to the US having a say on those standards too?

Yes.
Not a member of the European Union... no say on the EU standards. Just like not a member of the USA, no say on the USA standards.

Well, although, there's the WTO and the ISO for overall standardization, right? Or even a joint EU-NAFTA standardization bureau. That would be cool.

[Imperiatom]

Exactly all the country's have gained Independence from Britain in the past so they have no desire to lose their independence and being from Britain myself i have no wish to impose our political control over those nations again. And as you say apart from the moment of Independence we have all supported each other through troubles from WW1 to 9/11

Indeed. While there may have been some wavering (Suez, Panama), we've generally got each other's backs in a crisis.

I'm trying to popularize the term Anglobros.

That is a good term. I feel much more at home when i go to the US than when i go to the EU. I also have family in new zealand, south Africa and the US, we are one people that happen to be spread around the world and we use each others culture to further develop our identity be that through economic, music, film or trying to bring democracy to the world. Take suez, if i had been around then i probably would not have been in favor of it and there were many protests in Britain at the time.

I hope that the relationship no friendship never changes.

[Free Council Communes]

1984, man.

Ingsoc, the way to the future.

How ironic coming from a social democrat. Look what you traitors did to Rosa in Germany!
& I am advocating free speech. I'm just saying the children shouldn't grow up in a family that will poison their minds before they are old enough to think for themselves.