Gnosticism

[The Southron Nation]

This is the book I have: Pagels, Elaine (1979). The Gnostic Gospels. pp. 182 pages. ISBN 0-679-72453-2.

I found her a little presumptuous in her writing and couldn't get much past the 2nd or 3rd chapter, if anyone knows of a better book I'd be happy to read it, otherwise I'll remain content with Wikipedia.

i have all of her books.

[Barringtonia]

Oh, The Da Vinci Code stuff.

Yeah, I read that.

Actually I have a book on the Gnostics on my bookshelf, I just haven't been in the mood to read it yet.

never read it. is it good? i couldn't bring myself to pick it up.

Perfectly fine for reading on a plane, train or automobile, to be taken with a large pinch of salt.

[Svenen (Ancient)]

gnosis.org has a lot of the texts
These are supposed to be good.
http://www.amazon.com/Burton-L.-Mack/e/B000APXVBU

[The Southron Nation]

So maybe Southron can answer a number of questions better than I can if he wanted.

ask away. i should be explicit, however, in saying that i am NOT a gnostic. i am an Orthodox Christian. i had, at one time, considered becoming gnostic but the more i studied and read into Pagels, Rudolph, and Ehrman the more i found myself rejecting the notion of a separation between the physical and spiritual. ill do my best not to answer any questions with a bias, but please forgive me if i slip up.

[Orthodox Gnosticism]

Since there be many pplz who don't understands Gnosticism, I explain it. The Godhead way the fuck up there. Godhead make spawn the way down to Sophia. Sophia want to make shit too, all on her owns, she do it secret. It be abominable. She hide it. It be in cloud, not know of anything higher. It be God of this world. Souls be trapped in lower gods world. Or something like that.

That is an extreme over simplification. That is like saying the Qu'ran was written by a man, who owned a caravan company, who was beaten up by an angel in a cave, and wrote a book while being illiterate. In Islam you're supposed to worship one God, pray 5 times a day, and no pork for you.

[Tech-gnosis]

Gnosticism is too elitist, esoteric, and incohesive to be a truly successful religion.

[Aririn]

Since there be many pplz who don't understands Gnosticism, I explain it. The Godhead way the fuck up there. Godhead make spawn the way down to Sophia. Sophia want to make shit too, all on her owns, she do it secret. It be abominable. She hide it. It be in cloud, not know of anything higher. It be God of this world. Souls be trapped in lower gods world. Or something like that.

Gnosticism (Greek: γνῶσις gnōsis, knowledge) refers to diverse, syncretistic religious movements in antiquity consisting of various belief systems generally united in the teaching that humans are divine souls trapped in a material world created by an imperfect god, the demiurge; this being is frequently identified with the Abrahamic god, (as opposed to the Gospel according to the Hebrews) and is contrasted with a superior entity, referred to by several terms including Pleroma and Godhead. Depictions of the demiurge—the term originates with Plato's Timaeus—vary from being as an embodiment of evil, to being merely imperfect and as benevolent as its inadequacy permits. Gnosticism was a dualistic religion, influenced by and influencing Hellenic philosophy, Judaism (see Notzrim), and Christianity; however, by contrast, later strands of the movement, such as the Valentinians, held a monistic world-view. This, along with the varying treatments of the demiurge, may be seen as indicative of the variety of positions held within the category.

The gnōsis referred to in the term is a form of revealed, esoteric knowledge through which the spiritual elements of humanity are reminded of their true origins within the superior Godhead, being thus permitted to escape materiality. Consequently, within the sects of gnosticism only the pneumatics or psychics obtain gnōsis; the hylic or Somatics, though human, being incapable of perceiving the higher reality, are unlikely to attain the gnōsis deemed by gnostic movements as necessary for salvation. Jesus of Nazareth is identified by some Gnostic sects as an embodiment of the supreme being who became incarnate to bring gnōsis to the earth. In others (e.g. the Notzrim and Mandaeans) he is considered a mšiha kdaba or "false messiah" who perverted the teachings entrusted to him by John the Baptist. Still other traditions identify Mani and Seth, third son of Adam and Eve, as salvific figures.

Whereas Gnosticism was considered by some scholars to originate as a heretical branch of Christianity, alternate theories have proposed traces of Gnostic systems existed some centuries before the Christian Era. Gnostic sects may have existed earlier than the First Century BC, thus predating the birth of Jesus. The movement spread in areas controlled by the Roman Empire and Arian Goths, and the Persian Empire; it continued to develop in the Mediterranean and Middle East before and during the second and third centuries. Conversion to Islam and the Albigensian Crusade (1209–1229) greatly reduced the remaining number of Gnostics throughout the Middle Ages, though a few isolated communities continue to exist to the present. Gnostic ideas became influential in the philosophies of various esoteric mystical movements of the late 19th and 20th centuries in Europe and North America, including some that explicitly identify themselves as revivals or even continuations of earlier gnostic groups.

The main features of gnosticism
Gnostic systems are typically marked out by:
"And the Sophia of the Epinoia [...] brought forth. And [...] something came out of her which was imperfect and different from her appearance, because she had created it without her consort. And it was dissimilar to the likeness of its mother, for it has another form.

"And when she saw (the consequences of) her desire, it changed into a form of a lion-faced serpent. And its eyes were like lightning fires which flash. She cast it away from her, outside that place, that no one of the immortal ones might see it, for she had created it in ignorance."

From The Secret Book of John (long version), Nag Hammadi Library, Codex II, trans. Frederik Wisse.
The notion of a remote, supreme monadic divinity, source - this figure is known under a variety of names, including 'Pleroma', 'Bythos' and 'Abyss' (Greek: Βυθός, "deep");
The introduction by emanation of further divine beings, which are nevertheless identifiable as aspects of the God from which they proceeded; the progressive emanations are often conceived metaphorically as a gradual and progressive distancing from the ultimate source, which brings about an instability in the fabric of the divine nature;
The subsequent identification of the Fall of Man as an occurrence with its ultimate foundations within divinity itself. As mysticism, the modern word for the category of the study of mystic knowledge or gnosis, teaches the fall of man, and the material world are an illusion. Salvation is a radical essentialism and not based on personal choice, action or behavior but rather destiny or fate. Due to this, salvation does not occur either entirely or partially through any human behavior or agency; this stage in the divine emanation is usually enacted through the recurrent Gnostic figure of Sophia (Greek, "wisdom"), whose presence in a wide variety of Gnostic texts is indicative of her central importance;
The introduction of a distinct creator God or demiurge. Which is an illusion and as a later emanation from the single monad or source, this second God is a lesser and inferior or false God. This creator god is commonly referred to as the demiourgós (a technical term literally denoting a public worker the Latinized form of Greek dēmiourgos, δημιουργός, hence "ergon or energy", "public God or skilled worker" "false God" or "God of the masses"), used in the Platonist tradition.

The gnostic demiurge bears resemblance to figures in Plato's Timaeus and Republic. In the former the demiourgós is a central figure, as benevolent creator of the universe who works to make the universe as benevolent as the limitations of matter will allow; in the latter, the description of the leontomorphic 'desire' in Socrates' model of the psyche bears a resemblance to descriptions of the demiurge as being in the shape of the lion; the relevant passage of The Republic was found within a major gnostic library discovered at Nag Hammadi, wherein a text existed describing the demiurge as a 'lion-faced serpent'.
Elsewhere this figure is called 'Ialdabaoth', 'Samael' (Aramaic: sæmʕa-ʔel, 'blind god') or 'Saklas' (Syriac: sækla, 'the foolish one'), who is sometimes ignorant of the superior God, and sometimes opposed to it; thus in the latter case he is correspondingly malevolent.

The demiurge as a tyrannical God having caused the imperfect material world and all of its suffering, is as the creator God of the pagan philosophers (Zeus) and the Judeo-Christian-Muhammadan creator God (Yahweh or Adonai) not real but a construct or illusion of the human mind (as nous). Since no secondary creator God is necessary or of high importance as everything is eternal or emanated and can not be created or destroyed. The demiurge typically creates a group of co-actors named 'Archons', who preside over the material realm and, in some cases, present obstacles to the soul seeking ascent from it;
[The demiurge] is blind; because of his power and his ignorance and his arrogance he said, with his power, "It is I who am God; there is none apart from me." When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And this speech got up to incorruptibility; then there was a voice that came forth from incorruptibility, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" - which is, "god of the blind."

From The Hypostasis of the Archons or The Reality of the Rulers, Nag Hammadi Library, Codex II, trans. Bentley Layton.
The estimation of the world, owing to the above, as flawed or a production of 'error' but nevertheless as good as its constituent material might allow. This world is typically an inferior simulacrum of a higher-level reality or consciousness. The inferiority may be compared to the technical inferiority of a painting, sculpture, or other handicraft to the thing(s) of which those crafts are supposed to be a representation. In certain other cases it takes on a more ascetic tendency to view material existence, negatively. Which then becomes more extreme when materiality, and the human body, is perceived as evil and constrictive, a deliberate prison for its inhabitants;
The explanation of this state through the use of a complex mythological-cosmological drama in which a divine element 'falls' into the material realm and lodges itself within certain human beings; from here, it may be returned to the divine realm through a process of awakening (leading towards salvation). The salvation of the individual thus mirrors a concurrent restoration of the divine nature; a central Gnostic innovation was to elevate individual redemption to the level of a cosmically significant event;
Knowledge of a specific kind as a central factor in this process of restoration, achieved through the mediation of a redeemer figure (Christ, or, in other cases, Seth or Sophia).

The model limits itself to describing characteristics of the Syrian-Egyptian school of Gnosticism. This is for the reason that the greatest expressions of the Persian gnostic school - Manicheanism and Mandaeanism - are typically conceived of as religious traditions in their own right; indeed, the typical usage of 'Gnosticism' is to refer to the Syrian-Egyptian schools alone, while 'Manichean' describes the movements of the Persia school.

This conception of Gnosticism has in recent times come to be challenged. Despite this, the understanding presented above remains the most common and is useful in aiding meaningful discussion of the phenomena that compose Gnosticism. Above all, the central idea of gnōsis, a knowledge superior to and independent of faith made it welcome to many who were half-converted from paganism to Christianity. The Valentinians, for example, considered pistis (Greek: "faith") as consisting of accepting a body of teaching as true, being principally intellectual or emotional in character. The age of the Gnostics was highly diverse, they seem to have originated in Alexandria and coexisted with the early Christians until the 4th century AD and due to there being no fixed church authority, syncretism with pre-existing belief systems as well as new religions were often embraced. According to Clement of Alexandria, "...In the times of the Emperor Hadrian appeared those who devised heresies, and they continued until the age of the elder Antoninus."

The relationship between Gnosticism and orthodox Christianity during the early first and the whole of the second century is vital in helping us to further understand the main doctrines of Gnosticism; due in part to the fact that, prior to the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library (discussed below) much of what we know today about gnosticism has only been preserved in the summaries and assessments of early church fathers. Irenaeus declares in his treatise "Against Heresies" that Gnostic movements subjected all morality to the caprice of the individual, and made any fixed rule of faith impossible. According to Irenaeus, a certain sect known as the "Cainites" professed to impart a knowledge "greater and more sublime" than the ordinary doctrine of Christians, and believed that Cain derived his power from the superior Godhead. Although a Gnostic Christian himself, Clement of Alexandria, a 2nd century church father and the first notable member of the Church of Alexandria, raised a criticism against the followers of Basilides and Valentinus in his Stromata: in his view it annulled the efficacy of baptism, in that it held no value faith, the gift conferred in that sacrament.

For more information about Sophia, you did no justice to her in your explanation, check Platonism and Neo-Platonism and, of course, the idea of the Demiurge as whole, not only in Gnosticism but also in other philosophies of the ancient world.

[Buffett and Colbert]

What you're on sounds fun. Can I have some? Pretty please?

[Svenen (Ancient)]

Gnosticism is too elitist, esoteric, and incohesive to be a truly successful religion.

I wouldn't say Gnosticism is elitist, it's just not thrown before swine.

That is an extreme over simplification. That is like saying the Qu'ran was written by a man, who owned a caravan company, who was beaten up by an angel in a cave, and wrote a book while being illiterate. In Islam you're supposed to worship one God, pray 5 times a day, and no pork for you.

Than provide a source for me to summarize, or provide a better one.

[Bitchkitten]

This is the book I have: Pagels, Elaine (1979). The Gnostic Gospels. pp. 182 pages. ISBN 0-679-72453-2.

I found her a little presumptuous in her writing and couldn't get much past the 2nd or 3rd chapter, if anyone knows of a better book I'd be happy to read it, otherwise I'll remain content with Wikipedia.

I have that one too. Haven't opened it in years.

[Tech-gnosis]

I wouldn't say Gnosticism is elitist, it's just not thrown before swine.

Clarify on the difference.

[Regiria]

does anyone realy believe in gnostisism

My father actually taught my siblings and myself beliefs which I would later find stemmed from the Cathar and Bogomil sects of Gnosticism when I got older and did my own research, and some of the things he told me specifically in a father-son talk came from Marcion and Saturninus. He was very much a dualist.

[Tech-gnosis]

My father actually taught my siblings and myself beliefs which I would later find stemmed from the Cathar and Bogomil sects of Gnosticism when I got older and did my own research, and some of the things he told me specifically in a father-son talk came from Marcion and Saturninus. He was very much a dualist.

How did he come to be a gnostic? Anhy particular reasons why he did? Just curious.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

I'm in, where do I sign up?

Maybe you could join an organization if you wanted? I don't know. In some Gnosticism, Jesus is like spawn from godhead, so when says you have to find him, just means you find your soul which is foreign to material world, and so raises you up.

Ah then no, I can't be doing with organising anything, too much work.

Can I just make enormous donations instead?

*leaps off chair*
YES!
I WILL LOOK AFTER YOUR MONEY IF YOU LIKE?
I HAVE A GOOD RELIGION, YOU'L LOVE IT.

[Regiria]

My father actually taught my siblings and myself beliefs which I would later find stemmed from the Cathar and Bogomil sects of Gnosticism when I got older and did my own research, and some of the things he told me specifically in a father-son talk came from Marcion and Saturninus. He was very much a dualist.

How did he come to be a gnostic? Anhy particular reasons why he did? Just curious.

No idea, actually. I didn't even know what he was telling us was Gnosticism until, as I said, I got old enough to do my own research, and found out, "Hey, so this is where what he was telling us all those years came from." As I said, he was very much a dualist. Spirit/invisible = good, flesh/material/matter/visible = bad.

Gnosticism drew on ancient Babylonian, Persian and Egyptian myth; upon biblical lore and Jewish piety; and upon Greek philosophy. The Christian Gnostics, of whom we learn from Irenaeus and other Fathers of the Church, taught an extreme and thoroughgoing dualism. They found an irreconcilable conflict between matter and spirit, the consequence of which was often a rigid asceticism. They also drew a distinction between the true God, who is transcendant, unknowable and all good, and the Demiurge or Creator, the God of this world, who is not good at all.
(Bernard J. Bamberger, Fallen Angels: Soldiers of Satan’s Realm [Jewish Publication Society, 2006], pp. 57-58)

They all affirmed a radical and uncompromising opposition and conflict between matter and spirit, this world and the divine world. The Christian Gnostics saw in the visible universe the work, not of the one and eternal God, but of the Demiurge, and inferior and actually evil being.
(Bernard J. Bamberger, Fallen Angels: Soldiers of Satan’s Realm [Jewish Publication Society, 2006], pp. 85-86)

[Orthodox Gnosticism]

That is an extreme over simplification. That is like saying the Qu'ran was written by a man, who owned a caravan company, who was beaten up by an angel in a cave, and wrote a book while being illiterate. In Islam you're supposed to worship one God, pray 5 times a day, and no pork for you.

Than provide a source for me to summarize, or provide a better one.[/quote]

I would but Aririn posted a much more detailed explanation of the Gnostic world view.

If you are truly interested in Gnosticism, you should read Ellain Pagels, although I prefer the original sources.

If you do not have time to go to Barnes and Nobels and pick up some of the copies of the originial writings I would then suggest http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

It will give you a much broader view of Gnosis, as well as the other and many beliefs of the early christian church.

I think you would probably find the Letter to Flora a very interesting read.

[Albaron]

I don't think there is any official Gnosticism organization. They were kind of killed off a lot by the Catholic church [...]

Muwahaha! We win yet again! This religion sounds... interesting... I'm not sure I understand what it consists of. Please clarify.

[Orthodox Gnosticism]

Gnosticism (Greek: γνῶσις gnōsis, knowledge) refers to diverse, syncretistic religious movements in antiquity consisting of various belief systems generally united in the teaching that humans are divine souls trapped in a material world created by an imperfect god, the demiurge; this being is frequently identified with the Abrahamic god, (as opposed to the Gospel according to the Hebrews) and is contrasted with a superior entity, referred to by several terms including Pleroma and Godhead. Depictions of the demiurge—the term originates with Plato's Timaeus—vary from being as an embodiment of evil, to being merely imperfect and as benevolent as its inadequacy permits. Gnosticism was a dualistic religion, influenced by and influencing Hellenic philosophy, Judaism (see Notzrim), and Christianity; however, by contrast, later strands of the movement, such as the Valentinians, held a monistic world-view. This, along with the varying treatments of the demiurge, may be seen as indicative of the variety of positions held within the category.

The gnōsis referred to in the term is a form of revealed, esoteric knowledge through which the spiritual elements of humanity are reminded of their true origins within the superior Godhead, being thus permitted to escape materiality. Consequently, within the sects of gnosticism only the pneumatics or psychics obtain gnōsis; the hylic or Somatics, though human, being incapable of perceiving the higher reality, are unlikely to attain the gnōsis deemed by gnostic movements as necessary for salvation. Jesus of Nazareth is identified by some Gnostic sects as an embodiment of the supreme being who became incarnate to bring gnōsis to the earth. In others (e.g. the Notzrim and Mandaeans) he is considered a mšiha kdaba or "false messiah" who perverted the teachings entrusted to him by John the Baptist. Still other traditions identify Mani and Seth, third son of Adam and Eve, as salvific figures.

Whereas Gnosticism was considered by some scholars to originate as a heretical branch of Christianity, alternate theories have proposed traces of Gnostic systems existed some centuries before the Christian Era. Gnostic sects may have existed earlier than the First Century BC, thus predating the birth of Jesus. The movement spread in areas controlled by the Roman Empire and Arian Goths, and the Persian Empire; it continued to develop in the Mediterranean and Middle East before and during the second and third centuries. Conversion to Islam and the Albigensian Crusade (1209–1229) greatly reduced the remaining number of Gnostics throughout the Middle Ages, though a few isolated communities continue to exist to the present. Gnostic ideas became influential in the philosophies of various esoteric mystical movements of the late 19th and 20th centuries in Europe and North America, including some that explicitly identify themselves as revivals or even continuations of earlier gnostic groups.

The main features of gnosticism
Gnostic systems are typically marked out by:
"And the Sophia of the Epinoia [...] brought forth. And [...] something came out of her which was imperfect and different from her appearance, because she had created it without her consort. And it was dissimilar to the likeness of its mother, for it has another form.

"And when she saw (the consequences of) her desire, it changed into a form of a lion-faced serpent. And its eyes were like lightning fires which flash. She cast it away from her, outside that place, that no one of the immortal ones might see it, for she had created it in ignorance."

From The Secret Book of John (long version), Nag Hammadi Library, Codex II, trans. Frederik Wisse.
The notion of a remote, supreme monadic divinity, source - this figure is known under a variety of names, including 'Pleroma', 'Bythos' and 'Abyss' (Greek: Βυθός, "deep");
The introduction by emanation of further divine beings, which are nevertheless identifiable as aspects of the God from which they proceeded; the progressive emanations are often conceived metaphorically as a gradual and progressive distancing from the ultimate source, which brings about an instability in the fabric of the divine nature;
The subsequent identification of the Fall of Man as an occurrence with its ultimate foundations within divinity itself. As mysticism, the modern word for the category of the study of mystic knowledge or gnosis, teaches the fall of man, and the material world are an illusion. Salvation is a radical essentialism and not based on personal choice, action or behavior but rather destiny or fate. Due to this, salvation does not occur either entirely or partially through any human behavior or agency; this stage in the divine emanation is usually enacted through the recurrent Gnostic figure of Sophia (Greek, "wisdom"), whose presence in a wide variety of Gnostic texts is indicative of her central importance;
The introduction of a distinct creator God or demiurge. Which is an illusion and as a later emanation from the single monad or source, this second God is a lesser and inferior or false God. This creator god is commonly referred to as the demiourgós (a technical term literally denoting a public worker the Latinized form of Greek dēmiourgos, δημιουργός, hence "ergon or energy", "public God or skilled worker" "false God" or "God of the masses"), used in the Platonist tradition.

The gnostic demiurge bears resemblance to figures in Plato's Timaeus and Republic. In the former the demiourgós is a central figure, as benevolent creator of the universe who works to make the universe as benevolent as the limitations of matter will allow; in the latter, the description of the leontomorphic 'desire' in Socrates' model of the psyche bears a resemblance to descriptions of the demiurge as being in the shape of the lion; the relevant passage of The Republic was found within a major gnostic library discovered at Nag Hammadi, wherein a text existed describing the demiurge as a 'lion-faced serpent'.
Elsewhere this figure is called 'Ialdabaoth', 'Samael' (Aramaic: sæmʕa-ʔel, 'blind god') or 'Saklas' (Syriac: sækla, 'the foolish one'), who is sometimes ignorant of the superior God, and sometimes opposed to it; thus in the latter case he is correspondingly malevolent.

The demiurge as a tyrannical God having caused the imperfect material world and all of its suffering, is as the creator God of the pagan philosophers (Zeus) and the Judeo-Christian-Muhammadan creator God (Yahweh or Adonai) not real but a construct or illusion of the human mind (as nous). Since no secondary creator God is necessary or of high importance as everything is eternal or emanated and can not be created or destroyed. The demiurge typically creates a group of co-actors named 'Archons', who preside over the material realm and, in some cases, present obstacles to the soul seeking ascent from it;
[The demiurge] is blind; because of his power and his ignorance and his arrogance he said, with his power, "It is I who am God; there is none apart from me." When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And this speech got up to incorruptibility; then there was a voice that came forth from incorruptibility, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" - which is, "god of the blind."

From The Hypostasis of the Archons or The Reality of the Rulers, Nag Hammadi Library, Codex II, trans. Bentley Layton.
The estimation of the world, owing to the above, as flawed or a production of 'error' but nevertheless as good as its constituent material might allow. This world is typically an inferior simulacrum of a higher-level reality or consciousness. The inferiority may be compared to the technical inferiority of a painting, sculpture, or other handicraft to the thing(s) of which those crafts are supposed to be a representation. In certain other cases it takes on a more ascetic tendency to view material existence, negatively. Which then becomes more extreme when materiality, and the human body, is perceived as evil and constrictive, a deliberate prison for its inhabitants;
The explanation of this state through the use of a complex mythological-cosmological drama in which a divine element 'falls' into the material realm and lodges itself within certain human beings; from here, it may be returned to the divine realm through a process of awakening (leading towards salvation). The salvation of the individual thus mirrors a concurrent restoration of the divine nature; a central Gnostic innovation was to elevate individual redemption to the level of a cosmically significant event;
Knowledge of a specific kind as a central factor in this process of restoration, achieved through the mediation of a redeemer figure (Christ, or, in other cases, Seth or Sophia).

The model limits itself to describing characteristics of the Syrian-Egyptian school of Gnosticism. This is for the reason that the greatest expressions of the Persian gnostic school - Manicheanism and Mandaeanism - are typically conceived of as religious traditions in their own right; indeed, the typical usage of 'Gnosticism' is to refer to the Syrian-Egyptian schools alone, while 'Manichean' describes the movements of the Persia school.

This conception of Gnosticism has in recent times come to be challenged. Despite this, the understanding presented above remains the most common and is useful in aiding meaningful discussion of the phenomena that compose Gnosticism. Above all, the central idea of gnōsis, a knowledge superior to and independent of faith made it welcome to many who were half-converted from paganism to Christianity. The Valentinians, for example, considered pistis (Greek: "faith") as consisting of accepting a body of teaching as true, being principally intellectual or emotional in character. The age of the Gnostics was highly diverse, they seem to have originated in Alexandria and coexisted with the early Christians until the 4th century AD and due to there being no fixed church authority, syncretism with pre-existing belief systems as well as new religions were often embraced. According to Clement of Alexandria, "...In the times of the Emperor Hadrian appeared those who devised heresies, and they continued until the age of the elder Antoninus."

The relationship between Gnosticism and orthodox Christianity during the early first and the whole of the second century is vital in helping us to further understand the main doctrines of Gnosticism; due in part to the fact that, prior to the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library (discussed below) much of what we know today about gnosticism has only been preserved in the summaries and assessments of early church fathers. Irenaeus declares in his treatise "Against Heresies" that Gnostic movements subjected all morality to the caprice of the individual, and made any fixed rule of faith impossible. According to Irenaeus, a certain sect known as the "Cainites" professed to impart a knowledge "greater and more sublime" than the ordinary doctrine of Christians, and believed that Cain derived his power from the superior Godhead. Although a Gnostic Christian himself, Clement of Alexandria, a 2nd century church father and the first notable member of the Church of Alexandria, raised a criticism against the followers of Basilides and Valentinus in his Stromata: in his view it annulled the efficacy of baptism, in that it held no value faith, the gift conferred in that sacrament.

For more information about Sophia, you did no justice to her in your explanation, check Platonism and Neo-Platonism and, of course, the idea of the Demiurge as whole, not only in Gnosticism but also in other philosophies of the ancient world.

This is a good brief summary of the Gnostic world view.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

This is a good brief summary of the Gnostic world view.

...brief?

[Aririn]

This is a good brief summary of the Gnostic world view.

...brief?

Well, it was either that, or link to the investigation on the subject that I found yesterday.
Isn't Wiki great?

[Orthodox Gnosticism]

This is a good brief summary of the Gnostic world view.

...brief?

Well, it was either that, or link to the investigation on the subject that I found yesterday.
Isn't Wiki great?

It can be

[Aririn]

This is a good brief summary of the Gnostic world view.

...brief?

Well, it was either that, or link to the investigation on the subject that I found yesterday.
Isn't Wiki great?

It can be

This is also a good source for those interested in Gnosticism: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/gnostics.html. And I'm sure she was already mentioned, Dr. Elaine Pagels. She's also a good source. I also recommend the reading of the Gnostic gospels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic_Gospels. A bit tedious, but it helps a lot.

[Svenen (Ancient)]

Clarify on the difference.

As I understand it, the gnostics would give anyone more information if they improved themselves sufficiently.

[Aririn]

Clarify on the difference.

As I understand it, the gnostics would give anyone more information if they improved themselves sufficiently.

That reminds me of the Cathars.