Artificial womb & abortion

[Vespertilia]

So, this is the question that bugged me for a while, and abortion topics are never out of fashion here.

Suppose there's fully operational artificial womb invented, and in just a little effort reasonable amount of it can be deployed in any self-respecting hospital. The fetus can be transferred to the artificial womb in practically any case. Would it change your stance on abortion?



For added fun, we can also consider less-than-ideal conditions, like fetus age limits on transfer, or high price of the device.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

So, this is the question that bugged me for a while, and abortion topics are never out of fashion here.

Suppose there's fully operational artificial womb invented, and in just a little effort reasonable amount of it can be deployed in any self-respecting hospital. The fetus can be transferred to the artificial womb in practically any case. Would it change your stance on abortion?



For added fun, we can also consider less-than-ideal conditions, like fetus age limits on transfer, or high price of the device.

Assuming the process was as safe as or safer than abortion, could be performed when requested and the mother was absolved of all responsibility for the child I would not only allow it, I would mandate it.

However, anything less than that and It should only be an option and the mother still has the final say as to whether to have an abortion or not.

[Flameswroth]

Mad deja vu here, is anyone else having it? Like I've seen this before. And no, I'm not being sarcastic and mean. I really think I have seen this sort of thing before. Anyhow, it's likely long gone now so...

...in any case, I don't think doing this would be any more intrusive than an abortion might be; still gotta get all up in there and whatnot. And in this idealized situation, you can grow babies for families that want to adopt or something without having to deal with crazy stuff with the other mom later. Seems like a good idea.

I'm sure others will disagree on the grounds that they feel the world is overpopulating or something, which is all well and dandy. Still, the comparative amounts of aborted fetuses that now become live babies would probably be only a small fraction of the total births/deaths that occur regularly anyways so I'm not sure how much more of an effect it would have.

I don't know about forcing moms to do it rather than abort, though. Although I don't know why they'd object if all the costs were covered, it were no more invasive than an abortion would be, and they could sign a waiver legally freeing them of any obligation to the child or something.

[Fartsniffage]

I have to look at this from a world population point of view and say that artificial wombs shouldn't be used. Not only because of the, small, relief given to resources given by lower birthrates but also because of the already overloaded adoption services.

[Maurepas]

That time again, eh?

[Fartsniffage]

That time again, eh?

It's the time of the month (or not).

[Tubbsalot]

No point. There's already no harm in abortion (prior to the development of a nervous system).

Edit: If anything, I agree that the artificial womb should not be used as a replacement for abortion, only as a replacement for natural births.

[Vespertilia]

That time again, eh?

I didn't notice this earlier one. Was it a thread, or just a discussion in one of recent abortion threads?

[Ashmoria]

So, this is the question that bugged me for a while, and abortion topics are never out of fashion here.

Suppose there's fully operational artificial womb invented, and in just a little effort reasonable amount of it can be deployed in any self-respecting hospital. The fetus can be transferred to the artificial womb in practically any case. Would it change your stance on abortion?



For added fun, we can also consider less-than-ideal conditions, like fetus age limits on transfer, or high price of the device.

no
but i would be willing to give the father the option of keeping the fetus and raising it on his own.

[Ashmoria]

I have to look at this from a world population point of view and say that artificial wombs shouldn't be used. Not only because of the, small, relief given to resources given by lower birthrates but also because of the already overloaded adoption services.

yeah

i would be against the creation of parentless babies. that sort of thing isnt good for society.

[Senestrum]

To be quite frank, the world population is such that I would actively oppose any attempts to make this mandatory

[Lunatic Goofballs]

To be quite frank, the world population is such that I would actively oppose any attempts to make this mandatory

Personally I think it would be far cheaper to provide birth control and comprehensive sex education, but I'm a goofball.

[Senestrum]

Those work too, but you'll always have stupid people who don't use them.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

Those work too, but you'll always have stupid people who don't use them.

*produces a staple gun* For every problem, there's a solution.

[Goath]

So, this is the question that bugged me for a while, and abortion topics are never out of fashion here.

Suppose there's fully operational artificial womb invented, and in just a little effort reasonable amount of it can be deployed in any self-respecting hospital. The fetus can be transferred to the artificial womb in practically any case. Would it change your stance on abortion?



For added fun, we can also consider less-than-ideal conditions, like fetus age limits on transfer, or high price of the device.

Assuming the process was as safe as or safer than abortion, could be performed when requested and the mother was absolved of all responsibility for the child I would not only allow it, I would mandate it.

However, anything less than that and It should only be an option and the mother still has the final say as to whether to have an abortion or not.

I agree with this sentiment 100%

[EvilDarkMagicians]

The mother logically wouldn't have the decision whether it should be aborted or not.
It could get messy.

[Flameswroth]

I thought of something interesting...

Imagine if you will that by some strange development of science, it was safer for the mother to remove the embryo alive rather than do a conventional abortion. Naturally you'd want to use the safer method to remove the embryo, but then you're left with a, at the time, still living embryo there in your hand...device...whatever.

It probably wouldn't present a problem for those who feel no attachment to embryos, but I can imagine a shitstorm would start anew as to how/whether a fetus thus 'removed' from its lodgings could be killed so readily now that it was free from the mother. I mean, if the abortion is meant to be completed, do you just put it in a bag and let it die? Do you put it in a mason gar like an appendix and send it home with the woman? Or do you pretend you're Gallager and smash the little bugger with a huge mallet during a comedy routine in the maternity ward?

[Senestrum]

I thought of something interesting...

Imagine if you will that by some strange development of science, it was safer for the mother to remove the embryo alive rather than do a conventional abortion. Naturally you'd want to use the safer method to remove the embryo, but then you're left with a, at the time, still living embryo there in your hand...device...whatever.

It probably wouldn't present a problem for those who feel no attachment to embryos, but I can imagine a shitstorm would start anew as to how/whether a fetus thus 'removed' from its lodgings could be killed so readily now that it was free from the mother. I mean, if the abortion is meant to be completed, do you just put it in a bag and let it die? Do you put it in a mason gar like an appendix and send it home with the woman? Or do you pretend you're Gallager and smash the little bugger with a huge mallet during a comedy routine in the maternity ward?

If its CNS hasn't developed yet, it is not a person. Period.

[Tubbsalot]

It probably wouldn't present a problem for those who feel no attachment to embryos, but I can imagine a shitstorm would start anew as to how/whether a fetus thus 'removed' from its lodgings could be killed so readily now that it was free from the mother. I mean, if the abortion is meant to be completed, do you just put it in a bag and let it die? Do you put it in a mason gar like an appendix and send it home with the woman? Or do you pretend you're Gallager and smash the little bugger with a huge mallet during a comedy routine in the maternity ward?

Why, donate it to medical science for research and therapy, of course.

[Flameswroth]

It probably wouldn't present a problem for those who feel no attachment to embryos, but I can imagine a shitstorm would start anew as to how/whether a fetus thus 'removed' from its lodgings could be killed so readily now that it was free from the mother. I mean, if the abortion is meant to be completed, do you just put it in a bag and let it die? Do you put it in a mason gar like an appendix and send it home with the woman? Or do you pretend you're Gallager and smash the little bugger with a huge mallet during a comedy routine in the maternity ward?

Why, donate it to medical science for research and therapy, of course.

Y-yes, of course.

*hides mallet*

That's what I was figuring on doing all along. Yeah.

[Tubbsalot]

Y-yes, of course.

*hides mallet*

That's what I was figuring on doing all along. Yeah.

Don't worry, the research is mainly about areas of the brain which stimulate amusement. I'm pretty sure the embryos will be introduced to mallets at some point anyway.

[Kharsus]

Until the people of this world can start colonizing and/or terraforming other worlds I think that the parentless babies should be prevented, even if there are some whose moral compasses make them think that saving a couple unborn babies are worth jeopardizing the entire future of the already living human populace. The population needs to be slowed down a bit until colonies on other worlds can start, then the population can be un-regulated, at least on those other worlds. (Anyone ever read "Ender's Game")

[Lord-General Drache]

So, this is the question that bugged me for a while, and abortion topics are never out of fashion here.

Suppose there's fully operational artificial womb invented, and in just a little effort reasonable amount of it can be deployed in any self-respecting hospital. The fetus can be transferred to the artificial womb in practically any case. Would it change your stance on abortion?



For added fun, we can also consider less-than-ideal conditions, like fetus age limits on transfer, or high price of the device.

No, my stance wouldn't change. If someone doesn't want to reproduce, they shouldn't have to, by their own internal methods or proxy.

[Neo Art]

So, this is the question that bugged me for a while, and abortion topics are never out of fashion here.

Suppose there's fully operational artificial womb invented, and in just a little effort reasonable amount of it can be deployed in any self-respecting hospital. The fetus can be transferred to the artificial womb in practically any case. Would it change your stance on abortion?



For added fun, we can also consider less-than-ideal conditions, like fetus age limits on transfer, or high price of the device.

Not in the slightest little, and I don't see why it would. Keep in mind proper terminology. Abortion, despite popular belief, does not mean killing the embryo abortion simply means terminating the pregnancy. Does the presence of this artificial womb change my opinion on whether a woman should have the right to terminate her pregnancy? Absolutely not.

Does it change my perspective on terminations of pregnancy that KILL the embryo? Maybe.

[Samatolian City-States]

Until the people of this world can start colonizing and/or terraforming other worlds I think that the parentless babies should be prevented, even if there are some whose moral compasses make them think that saving a couple unborn babies are worth jeopardizing the entire future of the already living human populace. The population needs to be slowed down a bit until colonies on other worlds can start, then the population can be un-regulated, at least on those other worlds. (Anyone ever read "Ender's Game")

Orson Scott Card's depiction of relativistic speeds scare the shit out of me, frankly. Go to another world, and everyone you know will be dead by the time you arrive.