Same-Sex Marriage: Yea or Nay? And Explain!

[Zoharland]

I'm afraid I don't have enough time to debate my deeply held personal conviction on an internet forum with some person I don't know. I'm entitled to my opiniona s you are to yours.

Then I'm afraid we don't have time to do more than label you what you are: an intolerant bigot.

Same for you. Bigot.

Care to explain how I am a bigot?

You're intolerant of his opinions.

While people certainly entitled to their opinions, it is possible that their opinions might just be wrong, as is the case with Albaron.

And it is possible that yours are wrong as well. Who are we to decide what is wrong and right anyway?

kinda the fact you want a large section of the populace to be denied a basic human right is well, wrong and bigoted. Further more, how is me marrying a dude harm you? It doesn't, you are just against it because you wish to push your bible's belief system on america or are childish and think because gay sex is yucky, no one should do it.

Just as you are trying to push your liberal system on America as well (I'm not American, I think I've mentioned that). It doesn't harm me, but I believe it is wrong for it to got that far.
On bolded, can I have a graph or something?

They're not pushing their system on anyone. All they ask is that individuals be free to do as they wish.

There is no cause nobler than that. I support gay marriage, If only to foil the actions of those who use authoritarian means to prevent people from doing something that in no way affects no one but the individuals in question.

You and you're ilk are the ones limiting these people's freedoms. Therefore, you're wrong, as are your beliefs.

That qualifies on pushing, I think. Can we get some conservatives here, maybe?

Maximizing people's freedom isn't conservative?

I'm the conservative here. You're a social authoritarian.

edit: And really? These people having more freedoms pushes on you how? You're just like all the liberals on this forum, you think you know whats best for others.

You're a hypocrite.

[Farnhamia]

Yes. Simply because there are significant economic advantages to being married. Call it civil unions if you want, frankly I don't give a fuck what it is called as long as same sex couples can take advantage of those privileges as well.

While I agree that the benefits of marriage is the main thing, refusing to call it a marriage implies that homosexuality is not accepted as equal to heterosexuality.

The main reason for that is that marriage is a religious ceremony. And religions tend to... frown upon homosexuality.

Except that it isn't, really. If you have only the religious part without the secular, marriage-license part, you aren't married.

[Goath]

And I kind of fail to see how two consenting adults who wish to spend their lives together can lead to me marrying my dog. Obviously I'm missing something.

There is no practical difference between a union between two consenting adults who are fully capable of entering into legal contracts due to having reached the age of majority, and a union between an adult and an nonsentient animal incapable of consent who cannot enter into legal contracts. Hence, a homosexual marriage is essentially the same as a marriage between a person and a dog.

You aren't even a funny parodist. Please stop upsetting the natives.

[Bunyippie]

[Muravyets]

okay, those against gay marriage, please show me quantifiable effects of how two guys marrying has hurt your marriage? Pics or it didn't happen.

My wife saw two guys making out and became obsessed with yaoi. She won't make me sandwiches or get back in the kitchen, she just keeps staring at her gay porn. Gay men have ruined my marriage. If they are allowed to marry and thus given an equal status in our society, there will be a greater toleration of gay PDA leading to more gay PDA and more obsessed housewives who won't make sandwiches for their god-fearing and hard-working menfolk.

EDIT: I'd give you pics but my wife is on the computer staring at naked men having gay sex. Sorry.

[Albaron]

I'm afraid I don't have enough time to debate my deeply held personal conviction on an internet forum with some person I don't know. I'm entitled to my opiniona s you are to yours.

Then I'm afraid we don't have time to do more than label you what you are: an intolerant bigot.

Same for you. Bigot.

Care to explain how I am a bigot?

You're intolerant of his opinions.

While people certainly entitled to their opinions, it is possible that their opinions might just be wrong, as is the case with Albaron.

And it is possible that yours are wrong as well. Who are we to decide what is wrong and right anyway?

kinda the fact you want a large section of the populace to be denied a basic human right is well, wrong and bigoted. Further more, how is me marrying a dude harm you? It doesn't, you are just against it because you wish to push your bible's belief system on america or are childish and think because gay sex is yucky, no one should do it.

Just as you are trying to push your liberal system on America as well (I'm not American, I think I've mentioned that). It doesn't harm me, but I believe it is wrong for it to got that far.
On bolded, can I have a graph or something?

They're not pushing their system on anyone. All they ask is that individuals be free to do as they wish.

There is no cause nobler than that. I support gay marriage, If only to foil the actions of those who use authoritarian means to prevent people from doing something that in no way affects no one but the individuals in question.

You and you're ilk are the ones limiting these people's freedoms. Therefore, you're wrong, as are your beliefs.

That qualifies on pushing, I think. Can we get some conservatives here, maybe?

oh, you mean like how Abraham Lincoln, a conservative, pushed his views that slaves should be free on to the america people during the civil war? Or how Martin Luther King pushed his liberal view that just maybe, lynching blacks might be a bad thing? OR! How Gandhi pushed his liberal view that natives of India should be treated as citizens?!

America, thank you. I'm not discussing that though. I am discussing gay marriage. gay marriage is not civil rights for black people. There is a considerable amount of difference in suffering between being slave and being disliked (and of course there are extremists who will go to appalling lengths). The color of ones skin is more obvious then their sexual orientation.

[Farnhamia]

And I kind of fail to see how two consenting adults who wish to spend their lives together can lead to me marrying my dog. Obviously I'm missing something.

There is no practical difference between a union between two consenting adults who are fully capable of entering into legal contracts due to having reached the age of majority, and a union between an adult and an nonsentient animal incapable of consent who cannot enter into legal contracts. Hence, a homosexual marriage is essentially the same as a marriage between a person and a dog.

You aren't even a funny parodist. Please stop upsetting the natives.

As Flameswroth said before, we ought to stop feeding this one.

[Bunyippie]

I'm afraid I don't have enough time to debate my deeply held personal conviction on an internet forum with some person I don't know. I'm entitled to my opiniona s you are to yours.

Then I'm afraid we don't have time to do more than label you what you are: an intolerant bigot.

Same for you. Bigot.

Care to explain how I am a bigot?

You're intolerant of his opinions.

While people certainly entitled to their opinions, it is possible that their opinions might just be wrong, as is the case with Albaron.

And it is possible that yours are wrong as well. Who are we to decide what is wrong and right anyway?

kinda the fact you want a large section of the populace to be denied a basic human right is well, wrong and bigoted. Further more, how is me marrying a dude harm you? It doesn't, you are just against it because you wish to push your bible's belief system on america or are childish and think because gay sex is yucky, no one should do it.

Just as you are trying to push your liberal system on America as well (I'm not American, I think I've mentioned that). It doesn't harm me, but I believe it is wrong for it to got that far.
On bolded, can I have a graph or something?

They're not pushing their system on anyone. All they ask is that individuals be free to do as they wish.

There is no cause nobler than that. I support gay marriage, If only to foil the actions of those who use authoritarian means to prevent people from doing something that in no way affects no one but the individuals in question.

You and you're ilk are the ones limiting these people's freedoms. Therefore, you're wrong, as are your beliefs.

That qualifies on pushing, I think. Can we get some conservatives here, maybe?

oh, you mean like how Abraham Lincoln, a conservative, pushed his views that slaves should be free on to the america people during the civil war? Or how Martin Luther King pushed his liberal view that just maybe, lynching blacks might be a bad thing? OR! How Gandhi pushed his liberal view that natives of India should be treated as citizens?!

America, thank you. I'm not discussing that though. I am discussing gay marriage. gay marriage is not civil rights for black people. There is a considerable amount of difference in suffering between being slave and being disliked (and of course there are extremists who will go to appalling lengths). The color of ones skin is more obvious then their sexual orientation.

its not being disliked, ever hear of matthew shepard? 11 years ago, he was mugged, beaten and left tied to a barbed wire fence till he died simply because two lovely christians suspected he might be a homo, so they did their christian duty to kill an innocent man.

[Zoharland]

I'm afraid I don't have enough time to debate my deeply held personal conviction on an internet forum with some person I don't know. I'm entitled to my opiniona s you are to yours.

Then I'm afraid we don't have time to do more than label you what you are: an intolerant bigot.

Same for you. Bigot.

Care to explain how I am a bigot?

You're intolerant of his opinions.

While people certainly entitled to their opinions, it is possible that their opinions might just be wrong, as is the case with Albaron.

And it is possible that yours are wrong as well. Who are we to decide what is wrong and right anyway?

kinda the fact you want a large section of the populace to be denied a basic human right is well, wrong and bigoted. Further more, how is me marrying a dude harm you? It doesn't, you are just against it because you wish to push your bible's belief system on america or are childish and think because gay sex is yucky, no one should do it.

Just as you are trying to push your liberal system on America as well (I'm not American, I think I've mentioned that). It doesn't harm me, but I believe it is wrong for it to got that far.
On bolded, can I have a graph or something?

They're not pushing their system on anyone. All they ask is that individuals be free to do as they wish.

There is no cause nobler than that. I support gay marriage, If only to foil the actions of those who use authoritarian means to prevent people from doing something that in no way affects no one but the individuals in question.

You and you're ilk are the ones limiting these people's freedoms. Therefore, you're wrong, as are your beliefs.

That qualifies on pushing, I think. Can we get some conservatives here, maybe?

oh, you mean like how Abraham Lincoln, a conservative, pushed his views that slaves should be free on to the america people during the civil war? Or how Martin Luther King pushed his liberal view that just maybe, lynching blacks might be a bad thing? OR! How Gandhi pushed his liberal view that natives of India should be treated as citizens?!

America, thank you. I'm not discussing that though. I am discussing gay marriage. gay marriage is not civil rights for black people. There is a considerable amount of difference in suffering between being slave and being disliked (and of course there are extremists who will go to appalling lengths). The color of ones skin is more obvious then their sexual orientation.

Actually, they're about the same. Your dislike of people doesn't give you the right to take away their freedoms.

A true conservative recognizes economic AND social freedoms. Too bad you aren't one.

[Muravyets]

Leaving aside my personal issues with this topic...
I hear a lot of asking anti-gay marriage to give reasons why they are against. I'd be interested to hear why some of you are pro-gay marriage.
(I am genuinely curious. Do not go around destroying me. Thank you)

It's called equal protection under the law. Gay Americans are Americans. They deserve all the exact same legal privileges and protections that every other American citizen gets. That includes the legal right to marry the consenting adult of their choice, plus the over 1000 privileges, rights, and powers that are attached to marriage by the states and fed. There is absolutely no way that giving them that marriage equality would cause any harm to society. Thus there is no justification for denying it to them.

[Dyakovo]

I'm afraid I don't have enough time to debate my deeply held personal conviction on an internet forum with some person I don't know. I'm entitled to my opiniona s you are to yours.

Then I'm afraid we don't have time to do more than label you what you are: an intolerant bigot.

Same for you. Bigot.

Care to explain how I am a bigot?

Because you are automatically convinced I am wrong.
Same goes for me.
Heck, we a re all bigots!

Being convinced someone is wrong is not being a bigot.

bigot
Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: \ˈbi-gət\
Function: noun
Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1660

: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

[The Tofu Islands]

Maximizing people's freedom isn't conservative?

Very often not. It’s libertarian or liberal.

I'm the conservative here. You're a social authoritarian.

Social authoritarianism is often called social conservatism or just conservatism.

edit: And really? These people having more freedoms pushes on you how? You're just like all the liberals on this forum, you think you know whats best for others.

How are the liberals on this forum anything like Albaron? Where have we been going around knowing what’s best for others?

[Dyakovo]

I'm afraid I don't have enough time to debate my deeply held personal conviction on an internet forum with some person I don't know. I'm entitled to my opiniona s you are to yours.

Then I'm afraid we don't have time to do more than label you what you are: an intolerant bigot.

Same for you. Bigot.

Care to explain how I am a bigot?

Because you are automatically convinced I am wrong.
Same goes for me.
Heck, we a re all bigots!

But you are wrong. You're on the side that say that because of my sexual orientation, I am not entitled to the same rights as a heterosexual citizen of the United States. You're on the side that restricts rights and makes me a second-class citizen of my own country.

I'm not American, first of all, and secondly, you have the same rights, but only if you are heterosexual. sorry.

Which, by definition means he doesn't have the same rights.

[Albaron]

I'm afraid I don't have enough time to debate my deeply held personal conviction on an internet forum with some person I don't know. I'm entitled to my opiniona s you are to yours.

Then I'm afraid we don't have time to do more than label you what you are: an intolerant bigot.

Same for you. Bigot.

Care to explain how I am a bigot?

You're intolerant of his opinions.

While people certainly entitled to their opinions, it is possible that their opinions might just be wrong, as is the case with Albaron.

And it is possible that yours are wrong as well. Who are we to decide what is wrong and right anyway?

kinda the fact you want a large section of the populace to be denied a basic human right is well, wrong and bigoted. Further more, how is me marrying a dude harm you? It doesn't, you are just against it because you wish to push your bible's belief system on america or are childish and think because gay sex is yucky, no one should do it.

Just as you are trying to push your liberal system on America as well (I'm not American, I think I've mentioned that). It doesn't harm me, but I believe it is wrong for it to got that far.
On bolded, can I have a graph or something?

They're not pushing their system on anyone. All they ask is that individuals be free to do as they wish.

There is no cause nobler than that. I support gay marriage, If only to foil the actions of those who use authoritarian means to prevent people from doing something that in no way affects no one but the individuals in question.

You and you're ilk are the ones limiting these people's freedoms. Therefore, you're wrong, as are your beliefs.

That qualifies on pushing, I think. Can we get some conservatives here, maybe?

oh, you mean like how Abraham Lincoln, a conservative, pushed his views that slaves should be free on to the america people during the civil war? Or how Martin Luther King pushed his liberal view that just maybe, lynching blacks might be a bad thing? OR! How Gandhi pushed his liberal view that natives of India should be treated as citizens?!

America, thank you. I'm not discussing that though. I am discussing gay marriage. gay marriage is not civil rights for black people. There is a considerable amount of difference in suffering between being slave and being disliked (and of course there are extremists who will go to appalling lengths). The color of ones skin is more obvious then their sexual orientation.

its not being disliked, ever hear of matthew shepard? 11 years ago, he was mugged, beaten and left tied to a barbed wire fence till he died simply because two lovely christians suspected he might be a homo, so they did their christian duty to kill an innocent man.

Like I said, there are extremists. Okay, I'm leaving for now, so don't expect any replies from me. Not that you care what I say anyway.

[The Tofu Islands]

A true conservative recognizes economic AND social freedoms. Too bad you aren't one.

No true Scotsman fallacy.

[Zoharland]

Maximizing people's freedom isn't conservative?

Very often not. It’s libertarian or liberal.

I'm the conservative here. You're a social authoritarian.

Social authoritarianism is often called social conservatism or just conservatism.

edit: And really? These people having more freedoms pushes on you how? You're just like all the liberals on this forum, you think you know whats best for others.

How are the liberals on this forum anything like Albaron? Where have we been going around knowing what’s best for others?

What do you call regulation of business? You act like people are sheep that can't figure things out for themselves. You think you know whats best for others, just on the economic side of the equation instead of the social one.

[Muravyets]

Nay for the usual reasons. I have nothing against homosexuals themselves. The fact that some are open, proud about it and demanding marriage is what freaks me out.

Nay for the usual reasons. I have nothing against heterosexuals themselves. The fact that some are open, proud about it and demanding marriage is what freaks me out.

See how ridiculous that sounds?

Of course it sounds ridiculous. Evolution sounds ridiculous, yet it is true. My opinion is my own.

Evolution is a fact, not an opinion. The fact that your opinion is your own is also a fact, but your opinion itself is not a fact. Here's a third fact: Your opinion is of no value to anyone but you. And a fourth fact: Your opinion runs counter to existing US law and the US Constitution. On the basis of the last two facts, your opinion is meaningless in the context of a discussion of the law.

[Dyakovo]

Nay for the usual reasons. I have nothing against homosexuals themselves. The fact that some are open, proud about it and demanding marriage is what freaks me out.

So, you have nothing against gays so long as, to all intents and purposes, they just don't exist around you? As long as they hide themselves, never do anything, and live in shame all the time? Wow, that actually sounds like you do have something against them. It sounds like you hate the sight, even the thought of them. It sounds like you're bigoted against them.

Your point, other than to criticize me, is?

That whether you admit it or not you are a bigot and a liar.

[Zoharland]

I'm afraid I don't have enough time to debate my deeply held personal conviction on an internet forum with some person I don't know. I'm entitled to my opiniona s you are to yours.

Then I'm afraid we don't have time to do more than label you what you are: an intolerant bigot.

Same for you. Bigot.

Care to explain how I am a bigot?

You're intolerant of his opinions.

While people certainly entitled to their opinions, it is possible that their opinions might just be wrong, as is the case with Albaron.

And it is possible that yours are wrong as well. Who are we to decide what is wrong and right anyway?

kinda the fact you want a large section of the populace to be denied a basic human right is well, wrong and bigoted. Further more, how is me marrying a dude harm you? It doesn't, you are just against it because you wish to push your bible's belief system on america or are childish and think because gay sex is yucky, no one should do it.

Just as you are trying to push your liberal system on America as well (I'm not American, I think I've mentioned that). It doesn't harm me, but I believe it is wrong for it to got that far.
On bolded, can I have a graph or something?

They're not pushing their system on anyone. All they ask is that individuals be free to do as they wish.

There is no cause nobler than that. I support gay marriage, If only to foil the actions of those who use authoritarian means to prevent people from doing something that in no way affects no one but the individuals in question.

You and you're ilk are the ones limiting these people's freedoms. Therefore, you're wrong, as are your beliefs.

That qualifies on pushing, I think. Can we get some conservatives here, maybe?

oh, you mean like how Abraham Lincoln, a conservative, pushed his views that slaves should be free on to the america people during the civil war? Or how Martin Luther King pushed his liberal view that just maybe, lynching blacks might be a bad thing? OR! How Gandhi pushed his liberal view that natives of India should be treated as citizens?!

America, thank you. I'm not discussing that though. I am discussing gay marriage. gay marriage is not civil rights for black people. There is a considerable amount of difference in suffering between being slave and being disliked (and of course there are extremists who will go to appalling lengths). The color of ones skin is more obvious then their sexual orientation.

its not being disliked, ever hear of matthew shepard? 11 years ago, he was mugged, beaten and left tied to a barbed wire fence till he died simply because two lovely christians suspected he might be a homo, so they did their christian duty to kill an innocent man.

Like I said, there are extremists. Okay, I'm leaving for now, so don't expect any replies from me. Not that you care what I say anyway.

If no one cared, why would we all bother replying?

Leave if you don't have a leg to stand on. Just don't pretend thats not why you're leaving.

[Dyakovo]

Yes. Simply because there are significant economic advantages to being married. Call it civil unions if you want, frankly I don't give a fuck what it is called as long as same sex couples can take advantage of those privileges as well.

While I agree that the benefits of marriage is the main thing, refusing to call it a marriage implies that homosexuality is not accepted as equal to heterosexuality.

The main reason for that is that marriage is a religious ceremony.

Except it's not.

[Zoharland]

A true conservative recognizes economic AND social freedoms. Too bad you aren't one.

No true Scotsman fallacy.

I stand by what I said. Liberalism and Conservatism are opposed on how much and where government interferes in the lives of the common man. I am a True Conservative, and thus think that it doesn't have a right to interfere at all.

[Muravyets]

Disgusting and revolting!!!!!!!

yep, my words exactly

I use those words, too. Quite often, in fact. I use them every time I see an add for Applebee's restaurants that show pictures of that greasy slop they call "food."

[The Tofu Islands]

What do you call regulation of business?

A necessity since an unregulated market means there is no incentive except profit, which can often damage people or the environment.

[Cecilia Penifader]

Leaving aside my personal issues with this topic...
I hear a lot of asking anti-gay marriage to give reasons why they are against. I'd be interested to hear why some of you are pro-gay marriage.
(I am genuinely curious. Do not go around destroying me. Thank you)

It's called equal protection under the law. Gay Americans are Americans. They deserve all the exact same legal privileges and protections that every other American citizen gets. That includes the legal right to marry the consenting adult of their choice, plus the over 1000 privileges, rights, and powers that are attached to marriage by the states and fed. There is absolutely no way that giving them that marriage equality would cause any harm to society. Thus there is no justification for denying it to them.

I agree and think this reasoning should be applied to polygamous marriages and, really, all consensual acts between adults. Ideally, the government would stay out of it. A marriage license is such a ridiculous concept. We don't need any special skills to get married, like we do to drive or operate a forklift. It's just a way to keep certain people out of the process.

Also, even if gay marriage did harm society, I wouldn't care. I don't think society should get to take a vote on whether to deprive human beings of their liberty.

Anyway, I vote a big fat YEA. Legalize gay marriage.

[Muravyets]

I SAY THANK YOU MAINE! FOR VOTING NO FOR SAME SEX MARRIAGE, I WOULD JUST EVER PERSON WHO VOTED NO, CALI WELL THATS WHY THERE ECONOMY IS UP THE HOLE! ALLOWING SAME SEX JUST PROVES TO MAKE THINGS WORSE, HAS ANYONE HEARD OF AIDS! THANK YOU GLBT FOR BRINGING AIDS TO THIS WORLD!!!

Actually it was a guy who "messed with" a monkey

Do we actually know how it originally started? Mutated strand, I think.

And it so, so, SO doesn't matter to the discussion of same-sex marriage. It's like making points about syphilis when talking about straight marriage.

Of course it doesn't matter. However...this.

Counter-arguments like “so was slavery” are unconvincing, as the occasional slights suffered by homosexual couples are microscopic by comparison with the injustice of human beings buying and selling other human beings

There really is a slippery slope here. Once marriage has been redefined to include homosexual pairings, what grounds will there be to oppose futher redefinition — to encompass people who want to marry their ponies, their sisters, or their soccer team?

In a society in which nobody had an IQ below 120, homosexual marriage might be plausible. In the actual societies we have, other considerations kick in.

There has never, anywhere, at any level of civilization, been a society that approved egalitarian (i.e. same age, same status) homosexual bonding

Think about it, I think the author makes a strong argument.

No, he doesn't. None of those assertions is anything more than his opinion masquerading as facts, without any support.