9 Trillion Dollar Debt = Compulsory Tax Burden + IncomeTax

[Kurdazistan]

So the USA is aiming to increase its foreign debt to 9 trillion dollars by 2020AD. But this means that every citizen will apparently have a high tax burden that they must pay.

What is the Solution?

Bake sale. *nod*

Remind me of my clubs.

[Ordo Mallus]

im just going to state something pretty obvious that everyone should know...

i have -$100 and i spend another -$100 to make my life easier. my life is easier, and i'm in even more debt.

National scale: im in debt 10 trillion dollars, i spend another 9 trillion dollars to make government jobs and make peoples lives easier. the nations life is easier and im in even more debt that will probably never be payed off in my life time or the next 3.

the fun part is paying them off.

[Indecline]

50% desert to Canada rather than work in compulsory labour as part of their tax payment...

ahhh canada is awesome public healthcare and education, lots of geographical change, diversity, lower guncrime rates and a managably sized millitary.

Not any more...60% of the US population just walked north across the border because they dont want to pay taxes in labour.

Im thinking I should have offered 4 months millitary service a year shooting Americans fleeing across the border to Canada.

Yeah, that option would have catered to the Canadian NSers as well as the more "patriotic" Americans in the crowd..

[Lackadaisical2]

IIRC the church owes us a couple centuries of back taxes...

whats this "the church" which one? since they're all tax exempt...

[DaWoad]

\
The state and democracy are the opposite of civilized. They are barbaric theft plain and simple. And don't give me that "I prefer 'extrotion'. The X makes it sound cool" bit. Extortion is a crime because it robs people of the product of their labor and when you take someone's labor you are forcing them to work for free. There is a word for that, slavery.

when have you ever been forced worked for free for the state? one case. . .any case at all . . .

Income tax ring a bell? I believe the US average tax freedom day, or whatever they call it (it's a day, when you would be able to keep 100% of your income, assuming prior to that you gave 100% to the state in taxes) is sometime in May. That is more than 4 months a year, a typical American works for free for the state. Sounds like slavery to me.

yah I thought someone would bring that up except you're not working for free you're working to pay for a service (governance). Saying paying taxes is working for free is like saying paying for food is working for free . . .its just silly.

[Sibirsky]

\
The state and democracy are the opposite of civilized. They are barbaric theft plain and simple. And don't give me that "I prefer 'extrotion'. The X makes it sound cool" bit. Extortion is a crime because it robs people of the product of their labor and when you take someone's labor you are forcing them to work for free. There is a word for that, slavery.

when have you ever been forced worked for free for the state? one case. . .any case at all . . .

Income tax ring a bell? I believe the US average tax freedom day, or whatever they call it (it's a day, when you would be able to keep 100% of your income, assuming prior to that you gave 100% to the state in taxes) is sometime in May. That is more than 4 months a year, a typical American works for free for the state. Sounds like slavery to me.

yah I thought someone would bring that up except you're not working for free you're working to pay for a service (governance). Saying paying taxes is working for free is like saying paying for food is working for free . . .its just silly.

Besides the military, which has a bloated budget, and should be more appropriately named the Department of Offense, my income taxes provide no service to me personally. Roads I drive on, gasoline excise tax. School I graduated from, property taxes. So on and so forth.

[DaWoad]

\
The state and democracy are the opposite of civilized. They are barbaric theft plain and simple. And don't give me that "I prefer 'extrotion'. The X makes it sound cool" bit. Extortion is a crime because it robs people of the product of their labor and when you take someone's labor you are forcing them to work for free. There is a word for that, slavery.

when have you ever been forced worked for free for the state? one case. . .any case at all . . .

Income tax ring a bell? I believe the US average tax freedom day, or whatever they call it (it's a day, when you would be able to keep 100% of your income, assuming prior to that you gave 100% to the state in taxes) is sometime in May. That is more than 4 months a year, a typical American works for free for the state. Sounds like slavery to me.

yah I thought someone would bring that up except you're not working for free you're working to pay for a service (governance). Saying paying taxes is working for free is like saying paying for food is working for free . . .its just silly.

Besides the military, which has a bloated budget, and should be more appropriately named the Department of Offense, my income taxes provide no service to me personally. Roads I drive on, gasoline excise tax. School I graduated from, property taxes. So on and so forth.

police? social security? subsidized healthcare? R&D? FDA? no no none of those things help you at all . . .in any way . . .ever.

[Sibirsky]

\
The state and democracy are the opposite of civilized. They are barbaric theft plain and simple. And don't give me that "I prefer 'extrotion'. The X makes it sound cool" bit. Extortion is a crime because it robs people of the product of their labor and when you take someone's labor you are forcing them to work for free. There is a word for that, slavery.

when have you ever been forced worked for free for the state? one case. . .any case at all . . .

Income tax ring a bell? I believe the US average tax freedom day, or whatever they call it (it's a day, when you would be able to keep 100% of your income, assuming prior to that you gave 100% to the state in taxes) is sometime in May. That is more than 4 months a year, a typical American works for free for the state. Sounds like slavery to me.

yah I thought someone would bring that up except you're not working for free you're working to pay for a service (governance). Saying paying taxes is working for free is like saying paying for food is working for free . . .its just silly.

Besides the military, which has a bloated budget, and should be more appropriately named the Department of Offense, my income taxes provide no service to me personally. Roads I drive on, gasoline excise tax. School I graduated from, property taxes. So on and so forth.

police? social security? subsidized healthcare? R&D? FDA? no no none of those things help you at all . . .in any way . . .ever.

Police - property taxes. Subsidized healthcare? I have insurance, it's not tax funded. R&D? The FDA does more harm than good.

[Bikonria]

The best I can do is keep voting for people who can solve the problem until either it's solved or it's bad enough to justify leaving the country. And I'm not going to Canada. With all these Americans claiming their going to move to Canada, I'm surprised that place hasn't just given up and become state number 51. (I joke. don't jump me.)

I'm learning conversational French, so I'll probably head out to live in the UK and do a little touring around French Europe. I'll settle down in Canada after I'm ready to stop adventuring.

[Northern Delmarva]

Overthrow the government then declare that since the last government that owed those debts no longer exists, neither does the debt. *nods*

[Northern Delmarva]

Overthrow the government then declare that since the last government that owed those debts no longer exists, neither does the debt. *nods*

[DaWoad]

\
The state and democracy are the opposite of civilized. They are barbaric theft plain and simple. And don't give me that "I prefer 'extrotion'. The X makes it sound cool" bit. Extortion is a crime because it robs people of the product of their labor and when you take someone's labor you are forcing them to work for free. There is a word for that, slavery.

when have you ever been forced worked for free for the state? one case. . .any case at all . . .

Income tax ring a bell? I believe the US average tax freedom day, or whatever they call it (it's a day, when you would be able to keep 100% of your income, assuming prior to that you gave 100% to the state in taxes) is sometime in May. That is more than 4 months a year, a typical American works for free for the state. Sounds like slavery to me.

yah I thought someone would bring that up except you're not working for free you're working to pay for a service (governance). Saying paying taxes is working for free is like saying paying for food is working for free . . .its just silly.

Besides the military, which has a bloated budget, and should be more appropriately named the Department of Offense, my income taxes provide no service to me personally. Roads I drive on, gasoline excise tax. School I graduated from, property taxes. So on and so forth.

police? social security? subsidized healthcare? R&D? FDA? no no none of those things help you at all . . .in any way . . .ever.

Police - property taxes. Subsidized healthcare? I have insurance, it's not tax funded. R&D? The FDA does more harm than good.

-are the police payed by propety tax?
-subsidized healthcare means that those people that you walk by on the street everyday (or who serve your food etc.) can afford to be healthy enough that you aren't infected by them. Diseases are not stopped by classlines and pay no attention to how much monney you have.
-reaserch and development monney has helped to develop al these nice thigns we relie on on a daily basis.
-FDA makes sure that those vitamen pills you take every morning aren't just packaged sugar, that your milk isn't full of ecoli, that your beef doesn't have a whole host of prion diseases etc. etc. etc. (but no they "do more harm than good"' . . .yah . . .right)

[Sibirsky]

\
The state and democracy are the opposite of civilized. They are barbaric theft plain and simple. And don't give me that "I prefer 'extrotion'. The X makes it sound cool" bit. Extortion is a crime because it robs people of the product of their labor and when you take someone's labor you are forcing them to work for free. There is a word for that, slavery.

when have you ever been forced worked for free for the state? one case. . .any case at all . . .

Income tax ring a bell? I believe the US average tax freedom day, or whatever they call it (it's a day, when you would be able to keep 100% of your income, assuming prior to that you gave 100% to the state in taxes) is sometime in May. That is more than 4 months a year, a typical American works for free for the state. Sounds like slavery to me.

yah I thought someone would bring that up except you're not working for free you're working to pay for a service (governance). Saying paying taxes is working for free is like saying paying for food is working for free . . .its just silly.

Besides the military, which has a bloated budget, and should be more appropriately named the Department of Offense, my income taxes provide no service to me personally. Roads I drive on, gasoline excise tax. School I graduated from, property taxes. So on and so forth.

police? social security? subsidized healthcare? R&D? FDA? no no none of those things help you at all . . .in any way . . .ever.

Police - property taxes. Subsidized healthcare? I have insurance, it's not tax funded. R&D? The FDA does more harm than good.

-are the police payed by propety tax?
-subsidized healthcare means that those people that you walk by on the street everyday (or who serve your food etc.) can afford to be healthy enough that you aren't infected by them. Diseases are not stopped by classlines and pay no attention to how much monney you have.
-reaserch and development monney has helped to develop al these nice thigns we relie on on a daily basis.
-FDA makes sure that those vitamen pills you take every morning aren't just packaged sugar, that your milk isn't full of ecoli, that your beef doesn't have a whole host of prion diseases etc. etc. etc. (but no they "do more harm than good"' . . .yah . . .right)

Yes, the local police department is funded by property taxes, both real and personal in the county.

Make healthcare cheaper, and those people will be able to afford it.

R&D is a private enterprise matter.

The FDA's incentive is to be really fucking slow. A lot of drugs are available elsewhere that are not FDA approved here. They are effective and perfectly safe, yet the FDA hasn't gotten around to testing them.

Suppose, I am some dude at the FDA that decides to approve or not medication. If I approve this drug too quickly, and it turns out to be a bad one, and a large number of people are allergic to it, with lethal consequences, and 500 people die as a result of it, shit, I am hauled in front of Congress for testimony, ridiculed by the media and probably out of a job.

On the other hand, a new experimental drug comes out in.... France. I am going to let the French be the guinea pigs. The drug turns out to be a major success. It treats a terminal disease of your choice. Unfortunately, by the time I get around to approving this drug 50,000 Americans died of this disease because they did not have access to this drug. No sweat of my back. None of this shit was reported, no congressional testimony. All we know is that we now have access to this wonderful drug. Never mind that the French have had it for 10 years.

That is more harm than good.

[The Black Forrest]

That is more harm than good.

Nahh. Regulation is a good thing. The "free market" would end up killing for more people.

[Sibirsky]

That is more harm than good.

Nahh. Regulation is a good thing. The "free market" would end up killing for more people.

What?

[The Black Forrest]

That is more harm than good.

Nahh. Regulation is a good thing. The "free market" would end up killing for more people.

What?

Eh?

This isn't one your rants for letting the markets be free?

[Sibirsky]

That is more harm than good.

Nahh. Regulation is a good thing. The "free market" would end up killing for more people.

How exactly, and why would the free market end up killing people? And I'm assuming you mean for more money.

[DaWoad]

Yes, the local police department is funded by property taxes, both real and personal in the county.

could you get me a source on that?

Make healthcare cheaper, and those people will be able to afford it.

lol and how do you propose to do that without lowering quality standards and killiing people?

R&D is a private enterprise matter.

no . . .its not. Not wholy anyway. Government subsidies make alot of reaserch possible and some of the premier R&D places out there (NASA?) are government owned.

The FDA's incentive is to be really fucking slow. A lot of drugs are available elsewhere that are not FDA approved here. They are effective and perfectly safe, yet the FDA hasn't gotten around to testing them.

. . .the FDA doesn't test things . . .the FDA reviews the tests done by companies and either approves or doesn't

Suppose, I am some dude at the FDA that decides to approve or not medication. If I approve this drug too quickly, and it turns out to be a bad one, and a large number of people are allergic to it, with lethal consequences, and 500 people die as a result of it, shit, I am hauled in front of Congress for testimony, ridiculed by the media and probably out of a job.

as it should be

On the other hand, a new experimental drug comes out in.... France. I am going to let the French be the guinea pigs. The drug turns out to be a major success. It treats a terminal disease of your choice. Unfortunately, by the time I get around to approving this drug 50,000 Americans died of this disease because they did not have access to this drug. No sweat of my back. None of this shit was reported, no congressional testimony. All we know is that we now have access to this wonderful drug. Never mind that the French have had it for 10 years.

That is more harm than good.

1-so a terminal disease which kills 5 000 people a year has only 500 people possibly taking drugs for it? You realize that never happens right?
2-Drug trials
3-French medicine is government run
4-The FDA doesn't do testing . . .it approves tests others have already done so your whole scenario makes no sense.
5-people could easily be hauled in front of congress for slowing a drug's approval but thats not possible . . .once a drug fulfills requirements there is almost no way to prevent it from coming into the market. . .

[Sibirsky]

could you get me a source on that?

Maybe tomorrow. I will look.

lol and how do you propose to do that without lowering quality standards and killiing people?

Get rid of the third party payer. Make cost matter to A) the consumer (patient) and B) the provider (doctor, hospital, big pharma)

no . . .its not. Not wholy anyway. Government subsidies make alot of reaserch possible and some of the premier R&D places out there (NASA?) are government owned.

Fair enough

. . .the FDA doesn't test things . . .the FDA reviews the tests done by companies and either approves or doesn't

Doesn't change their incentive. To be slow.

1-so a terminal disease which kills 5 000 people a year has only 500 people possibly taking drugs for it? You realize that never happens right?
2-Drug trials
3-French medicine is government run
4-The FDA doesn't do testing . . .it approves tests others have already done so your whole scenario makes no sense.
5-people could easily be hauled in front of congress for slowing a drug's approval but thats not possible . . .once a drug fulfills requirements there is almost no way to prevent it from coming into the market. . .

The numbers were just examples. The French healthcare system is much more free market than people realize. 92% of French have supplemental private insurance coverage. Not sure about the pharma, again just an example. The location of that drug's manufacturer is not the point.

[S C R U S]

So the USA is aiming to increase its foreign debt to 9 trillion dollars by 2020AD. But this means that every citizen will apparently have a high tax burden that they must pay.

This is your compulsory tax burden. You still have Income Tax to pay. Otherwise you would all be paying fifty grand a year in tax...and those who cannot pay fifty grand a year in tax are tax cheats...better to subject you all to an equal increase in service based tax payment.

What is the Solution?

I have the solution

1. Stop the pointless wars and if we are going to be somewhere, we better be makeing a profit off it! Steal the oil! Bring all unused troops home to get jobs.
2. Stop printing sooo much money
3. Get out of the U.N. the USA gives them loads of cash each year and STOP ALL government funding to private organizations and global funds.
4. Stop borrowing billions a day from china
5. No stimulus plans that drag us deeper in debt. Printing billions of dollers for a stimulus only raises inflation.
6. The government must stop buying banks and other buisnesses, U.S.A is going down a communist path
7. Build up factories over here.
8. Slowly cut our dependance on china
9. When we have our industry back we bite the bullet and tell china that we arnt paying them back.
10. After that a depression will hit USA but it wont last forever
11. SLOWLY start bringing in dollers and destroying them, this will reduce inflation but it will have to be done slowly.
12 Quickly use our militaries brute force to take all of our currency from 3rd world countries and destroythe money, this will reduce inflation.


I know its not perfect but its better than what our government is doing now. These bailouts and the massive printing of money is only delaying the depression that is to come and will make things much worse in the long run.

[Yootopia]

I have the solution...

7. Build up factories over here.

Manufacturing being one of the main industries in the West to not get annihilated by the current depression... yes...

[DaWoad]

could you get me a source on that?

Maybe tomorrow. I will look.

lol and how do you propose to do that without lowering quality standards and killiing people?

Get rid of the third party payer. Make cost matter to A) the consumer (patient) and B) the provider (doctor, hospital, big pharma)

no . . .its not. Not wholy anyway. Government subsidies make alot of reaserch possible and some of the premier R&D places out there (NASA?) are government owned.

Fair enough

. . .the FDA doesn't test things . . .the FDA reviews the tests done by companies and either approves or doesn't

Doesn't change their incentive. To be slow.

1-so a terminal disease which kills 5 000 people a year has only 500 people possibly taking drugs for it? You realize that never happens right?
2-Drug trials
3-French medicine is government run
4-The FDA doesn't do testing . . .it approves tests others have already done so your whole scenario makes no sense.
5-people could easily be hauled in front of congress for slowing a drug's approval but thats not possible . . .once a drug fulfills requirements there is almost no way to prevent it from coming into the market. . .

The numbers were just examples. The French healthcare system is much more free market than people realize. 92% of French have supplemental private insurance coverage. Not sure about the pharma, again just an example. The location of that drug's manufacturer is not the point.

By third party did you mean insurance? or something else?
I think the people who actually do the testing are drug companies who's motive is definitely to push their drug through ASAP. The FDA provides a counterwieght it does slow thigns down but . . .
The problem is that in your theoretical model you reversed the numbers. A drug, improperly regulated, would generally kill more people than the lack of the same drug. There are a whole bunch of example of this occuring.

[Sibirsky]

By third party did you mean insurance? or something else?
I think the people who actually do the testing are drug companies who's motive is definitely to push their drug through ASAP. The FDA provides a counterwieght it does slow thigns down but . . .
The problem is that in your theoretical model you reversed the numbers. A drug, improperly regulated, would generally kill more people than the lack of the same drug. There are a whole bunch of example of this occuring.

Yes insurance.

I find the claim that the numbers are reversed hard to believe. In any case, it was just an example, not scientific at all.

[DaWoad]

By third party did you mean insurance? or something else?
I think the people who actually do the testing are drug companies who's motive is definitely to push their drug through ASAP. The FDA provides a counterwieght it does slow thigns down but . . .
The problem is that in your theoretical model you reversed the numbers. A drug, improperly regulated, would generally kill more people than the lack of the same drug. There are a whole bunch of example of this occuring.

Yes insurance.

I find the claim that the numbers are reversed hard to believe. In any case, it was just an example, not scientific at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide
people who died fro m morning sickness- few
babbies born with serious defects because of thalidomide-10 000 (low estimate)

[F1-Insanity]

Plan of action

-organize militia
-march on congress
-shoot all elected folks on sight
-cut overseas spending to zero
-pass legislation forbidding bail-outs forever
-deploy army on us-mexican border
-detain and deport all those trying to cross border