The feminisation of education

[Neesika]

I originally got the idea for this topic when I came across a brochure for a local dance company that was offering funding for male dance students (50% off tuition provided by a private charity). My first instinct was 'sheesh, that's not fair', but that was followed quickly by 'yeah but how many boys go into dance? I guess they really want to encourage more males to try it'. It made me think about my first undergraduate degree (in Education) where the majority of my fellow students were female.

There was recently a protest at my old university where the following posters were plastered all over campus:

This was in reaction to comments made by the University's president (a woman btw), that she was worried about the low rate of male enrollment in post-secondary institutions. The comments were in reaction to a Statistics Canada publication projecting enrollment rates into 2031, based on three different scenarios; the status quo with 58% female enrollment, historical trends (increasing female enrollment) and a scenario where the gender gap would be closed. It's rather shocking, really, to see what would have to happen for that last scenario to play out.

So what do you think? Is this a problem? Is it really not okay for people running these post-secondary institutions to be worried about the gender gap? What do you think is fuelling lower male enrollments, and what sort of approaches do you think we may have to take if we believe the gender gap is a problem?

Also note that the people who put up the posters felt that their position was being misinterpreted:

“The biggest problem we had was just how her comments were creating this fear mongering (that the number of women enrolled in university) is increasing at a faster rate than men,” he said. “There was no mention of lower classes and women of colour, whose numbers are lower.”

Kory Mathewson, president of the University of Alberta Students’ Union, agreed that addressing barriers to education for all people is important.

“The comments that the president made really speak to a larger issue of ensuring all qualified students are able to access a quality education,” he said. “I think the growth in female enrolment is encouraging news. But there are still under-represented groups that need representation, (such as) aboriginals and low-income (earners).”

[Philosophy and Hope]

Personally I think it is because naturally women are more attracted to the position, based on a cultural assumption they are better at secretary kind of jobs and because for as long as anyone can remember the classic teacher has been some mean old lady or a sweet young woman. I personally think men are pretty good at the job though. They make funnier teachers.

[Yootopia]

What do you think is fuelling lower male enrollments?

The fact that we get 30% better wages without having to take out student loans and the like.

[Kashindahar]

Personally I think it is because naturally women are more attracted to the position, based on a cultural assumption they are better at secretary kind of jobs and because for as long as anyone can remember the classic teacher has been some mean old lady or a sweet young woman. I personally think men are pretty good at the job though. They make funnier teachers.

Name a job, and men are invariably better at it.

Pornstar is the possible exception.

[Czardas]

Personally I think it is because naturally women are more attracted to the position, based on a cultural assumption they are better at secretary kind of jobs and because for as long as anyone can remember the classic teacher has been some mean old lady or a sweet young woman. I personally think men are pretty good at the job though. They make funnier teachers.

Name a job, and men are invariably better at it.

Pornstar is the possible exception.

Men don't make very good wet-nurses.

[Kashindahar]

Personally I think it is because naturally women are more attracted to the position, based on a cultural assumption they are better at secretary kind of jobs and because for as long as anyone can remember the classic teacher has been some mean old lady or a sweet young woman. I personally think men are pretty good at the job though. They make funnier teachers.

Name a job, and men are invariably better at it.

Pornstar is the possible exception.

Men don't make very good wet-nurses.

Men can lactate. You can milk anything with nipples.

[Free Soviets]

What do you think is fuelling lower male enrollments, and what sort of approaches do you think we may have to take if we believe the gender gap is a problem?

unless your gender gap is different than ours, it isn't really lower male enrollments, but rather even more enrollment growth among females. as a percentage of the population of males, enrollment is still on the ups. or at least holding steady. its just that women have really run away with the whole 'going to college' thing, and so have come to outnumber the males by significant amounts.

i blame the feminazis.

[Neesika]

Personally I think it is because naturally women are more attracted to the position, based on a cultural assumption they are better at secretary kind of jobs and because for as long as anyone can remember the classic teacher has been some mean old lady or a sweet young woman. I personally think men are pretty good at the job though. They make funnier teachers.

We're not just talking about women getting Bachelors of Education. Across the board, there are more women in post-secondary education than men. In a 2005 study on women in Canada women were still slightly behind men in terms of post-secondary enrollment. Now they are equal to, or exceeding men in enrollment figures. In 2001, women in every province in Canada except the Maritime provinces and the Northern territories, were behind men in terms of attainment of a University degree even though in that same year, women made up 57% of students in a post-secondary institution. We have finally caught up at the Bachelor level, and now some people are starting to say that they're worried not enough men are getting their degrees. Note, women are still behind men when it comes to Master's degrees, Doctorates and Post Docs.

Considering how long it took for women to even come close to attaining equal levels of enrollment and graduation in post-secondary education, is this really an area of concern?

[Neesika]

Name a job, and men are invariably better at it.

Pornstar is the possible exception.

I'm going to give this comment the attention it deserves.

........

[Czardas]

Personally I think it is because naturally women are more attracted to the position, based on a cultural assumption they are better at secretary kind of jobs and because for as long as anyone can remember the classic teacher has been some mean old lady or a sweet young woman. I personally think men are pretty good at the job though. They make funnier teachers.

Name a job, and men are invariably better at it.

Pornstar is the possible exception.

Men don't make very good wet-nurses.

Men can lactate. You can milk anything with nipples.

They are, however, not as good at lactating as women are. QED.


Also, yeah. I agree with Free Soviets. (did I just say that out loud? o.0 first time ever!)

[Eradium]

I'm studying a Biomed course in Britain (at one of the top unis), I think the gender spit on my course is probably about 60:40 to 70:30 in favour of women. I really don't mind, the more the merrier I say.

[Kashindahar]

Personally I think it is because naturally women are more attracted to the position, based on a cultural assumption they are better at secretary kind of jobs and because for as long as anyone can remember the classic teacher has been some mean old lady or a sweet young woman. I personally think men are pretty good at the job though. They make funnier teachers.

Name a job, and men are invariably better at it.

Pornstar is the possible exception.

Men don't make very good wet-nurses.

Men can lactate. You can milk anything with nipples.

They are, however, not as good at lactating as women are. QED.

That they don't lactate as often as women do doesn't mean that they aren't better at it. Preteen girls usually don't lactate; do we extrapolate from there to saying that men are therefore superior at lactation because they lactate more?

[Free Soviets]

Also, yeah. I agree with Free Soviets. (did I just say that out loud? o.0 first time ever!)

it's ok, everyone does it eventually. and once you start, you'll find it is difficult to stop. don't fight it.

[Czardas]

That they don't lactate as often as women do doesn't mean that they aren't better at it. Preteen girls usually don't lactate; do we extrapolate from there to saying that men are therefore superior at lactation because they lactate more?

You're shifting the goalposts and also using strawman arguments. Why do you hate freedom?

[Neesika]

Oh and in the 2005 study I linked to, there's a nice breakdown of female to male enrollment rates in various faculties around page 94. In 2001/02, 78% of students in Education were female, which jives with my own experiences. In health-field related programs the percentage was 75%. 66% in Fine and Applied Arts, 60% in the social sciences, humanities and biological/agricultural sciences. The 'hard sciences' had and continue to have a much smaller representation of women. 30% in math and physical sciences, and only 24% in engineering and applied sciences.

[Neesika]

That they don't lactate as often as women do doesn't mean that they aren't better at it. Preteen girls usually don't lactate; do we extrapolate from there to saying that men are therefore superior at lactation because they lactate more?

I request you cease hijacking.

[Muravyets]

I also agree with Free Soviets, but I'm less surprised by it. I'm always either agreeing or disagreeing with him.

This is not an issue. I do not believe the cause of the enrollment statistics is clear. I suspect that in most cases the imbalance is an illusion that will sort itself out in time.

One exception to that would be the extent to which university enrollment numbers are affected by high school drop-out rate numbers, and THAT is a real concern. However, that varies widely from place to place, and it is NOT the fault of women entering college.

[Kashindahar]

That they don't lactate as often as women do doesn't mean that they aren't better at it. Preteen girls usually don't lactate; do we extrapolate from there to saying that men are therefore superior at lactation because they lactate more?

You're shifting the goalposts and also using strawman arguments. Why do you hate freedom?

I'm hoping the irony there was intentional; I was using what I believed was your logic and coming to a ridiculous conclusion in an attempt to show you why I think your logic is inapplicable to this particular situation. You say that women are better at lactation. Why? Because, apparently, they do it more. Preteen girls lactate less than grown men do, and therefore grown men are better at lactating than females. QED.

[The Macabees]

My Western Civ II class focuses on feminism during the era... it makes me a sad panda.

[Yootopia]

Oh and in the 2005 study I linked to, there's a nice breakdown of female to male enrollment rates in various faculties around page 94. In 2001/02, 78% of students in Education were female, which jives with my own experiences. In health-field related programs the percentage was 75%. 66% in Fine and Applied Arts, 60% in the social sciences, humanities and biological/agricultural sciences. The 'hard sciences' had and continue to have a much smaller representation of women. 30% in math and physical sciences, and only 24% in engineering and applied sciences.

My mum was the only female on the Electronics Engineering class at uni in her year until she changed courses due to an utter lack of peer support.

[Kashindahar]

That they don't lactate as often as women do doesn't mean that they aren't better at it. Preteen girls usually don't lactate; do we extrapolate from there to saying that men are therefore superior at lactation because they lactate more?

I request you cease hijacking.

Feel free to travel back in time and stop yourself from insulting me.

[Muravyets]

Oh and in the 2005 study I linked to, there's a nice breakdown of female to male enrollment rates in various faculties around page 94. In 2001/02, 78% of students in Education were female, which jives with my own experiences. In health-field related programs the percentage was 75%. 66% in Fine and Applied Arts, 60% in the social sciences, humanities and biological/agricultural sciences. The 'hard sciences' had and continue to have a much smaller representation of women. 30% in math and physical sciences, and only 24% in engineering and applied sciences.

That would indicate to me that there actually is not a gender gap in higher education. Rather there is still a gender bias in professional training -- a divide between "women's jobs" and "men's jobs". I wonder, if we look at total enrollment numbers, instead of school-by-school enrollment numbers, would we see the supposed gender gap get narrower?

[Pope Joan]

We tell kids they can get better jobs if they go to college.

So they get something in, let's say, IT, and guess what?

All the work has been outsourced, to Pakistan and India...who in turn outsource to Romania...

The guy goes to work as a carpenter or plumber, joins the union, and makes a decent living with no danger of outsourcing.

And he wonders why he wasted his time and money on college.

[Otagia]

My Western Civ II class focuses on feminism during the era... it makes me a sad panda.

Actually sounds like an interesting class, tbh. Shouldn't be labeled West Civ II, but still, interesting.

[Kashindahar]

We tell kids they can get better jobs if they go to college.

So they get something in, let's say, IT, and guess what?

All the work has been outsourced, to Pakistan and India...who in turn outsource to Romania...

The guy goes to work as a carpenter or plumber, joins the union, and makes a decent living with no danger of outsourcing.

And he wonders why he wasted his time and money on college.

Maybe he should have gone into law?