Who is harmed by same-sex marriage?

[Norjagen]

But... Baby Jesus has two daddies...

Two daddies and one woman. More like polygamy. Hmmm, then again, God should be both sexes.

So.. Two daddies AND two mommies?

[Condunum]

Two daddies and one woman. More like polygamy. Hmmm, then again, God should be both sexes.

So.. Two daddies AND two mommies?

Who would the second mom be?

[Norjagen]

So.. Two daddies AND two mommies?

Who would the second mom be?

Well, if god could potentially be considered to be both male and female and neither at all, God could fill both roles. That, or he fills the "T" in their whole polygamous LGBTS cluster-coitus.

[Condunum]

Who would the second mom be?

Well, if god could potentially be considered to be both male and female and neither at all, God could fill both roles. That, or he fills the "T" in their whole polygamous LGBTS cluster-coitus.

...Oh yeah, I am both male and female. I guess that works

[Anachronous Rex]

Well, if god could potentially be considered to be both male and female and neither at all, God could fill both roles. That, or he fills the "T" in their whole polygamous LGBTS cluster-coitus.

...Oh yeah, I am both male and female. I guess that works

Tiamat?

Oh fuck that... I am not going through watery armageddon. Someone get Marduk in here quick.

[Free Detroit]

Who would the second mom be?

Well, if god could potentially be considered to be both male and female and neither at all, God could fill both roles. That, or he fills the "T" in their whole polygamous LGBTS cluster-coitus.

"T" is for....

Tentacles!

[Norjagen]

Well, if god could potentially be considered to be both male and female and neither at all, God could fill both roles. That, or he fills the "T" in their whole polygamous LGBTS cluster-coitus.

"T" is for....

Tentacles!

I've watched enough questionable and/or shameful animated films to know that never ends well.

[Free Detroit]

"T" is for....

Tentacles!

(Image)

I've watched enough questionable and/or shameful animated films to know that never ends well.

It ended by making possible the redemption of your eternal soul...

... via tentacle rape.

[Trussvania]

The people getting married.

BA DUM CHINK!

[Grocery Store Music]

A conservative's sexual certitude.

[Free Detroit]

My serious response:

Same sex marriage hurts everyone - just like any other kind of state sanctioned marriage.

The LBGT activist community has, at times, betrayed the left that traditionally supports it, and I see this as one of those issues. I sympathize, deeply, with LGBT people who want to be treated "like everyone else" and live "normal" lives. But I think it's disturbing and defeatist to simply buckle toward standards of normalcy that have been designed to be exclusionary.

I feel the same way about gay Catholics - just... why? Why should I help you join a square/straight society that has oppressed you as well as many, many more people who are not like you? So you can become the oppressor?

Why would I - and I am speaking as a radical leftist, feminist, and ardent supporter of LGBT rights in general - want to help add numbers to the other side? Frankly, as an activist, I feel terribly used and devalued by people who think I should support their right to be included in an oppressive system.

It's as if, as a leftist, I am expected to support gay marriage because any demands that the LGBT community has are automatically in sync with other oppressed groups. They are not. I would not march in support of the "African-American radical-right libertarians" because they identify - in part, at least - with an oppressed minority, why the hell would I march in support of conservative gays?

Somebody explain the reasoning to me, please. I am regularly troubled by this and unsure how to resolve it...

[Tlaceceyaya]

My serious response:

Same sex marriage hurts everyone - just like any other kind of state sanctioned marriage.

The LBGT activist community has, at times, betrayed the left that traditionally supports it, and I see this as one of those issues. I sympathize, deeply, with LGBT people who want to be treated "like everyone else" and live "normal" lives. But I think it's disturbing and defeatist to simply buckle toward standards of normalcy that have been designed to be exclusionary.

I feel the same way about gay Catholics - just... why? Why should I help you join a square/straight society that has oppressed you as well as many, many more people who are not like you? So you can become the oppressor?

Why would I - and I am speaking as a radical leftist, feminist, and ardent supporter of LGBT rights in general - want to help add numbers to the other side? Frankly, as an activist, I feel terribly used and devalued by people who think I should support their right to be included in an oppressive system.

It's as if, as a leftist, I am expected to support gay marriage because any demands that the LGBT community has are automatically in sync with other oppressed groups. They are not. I would not march in support of the "African-American radical-right libertarians" because they identify - in part, at least - with an oppressed minority, why the hell would I march in support of conservative gays?

Somebody explain the reasoning to me, please. I am regularly troubled by this and unsure how to resolve it...

Somebody explain to me what the fuck you're saying in that. I am troubled by this and unsure how to figure out what you're saying.

[Free Detroit]

Somebody explain to me what the fuck you're saying in that. I am troubled by this and unsure how to figure out what you're saying.

tl;dr

Gay marriage supports an inherently conservative, outmoded type of social structure under the guise of progressivism, and it irritates me.

[Tlaceceyaya]

Somebody explain to me what the fuck you're saying in that. I am troubled by this and unsure how to figure out what you're saying.

tl;dr

Gay marriage supports an inherently conservative, outmoded type of social structure under the guise of progressivism, and it irritates me.

Marriage?

[Frisivisia]

Somebody explain to me what the fuck you're saying in that. I am troubled by this and unsure how to figure out what you're saying.

tl;dr

Gay marriage supports an inherently conservative, outmoded type of social structure under the guise of progressivism, and it irritates me.

Would you like some lenseless horn-rimmed glasses to go with that Hipsterism?

[Free Detroit]

Marriage?

Yes, marriage.

If the argument is that the left should support efforts toward gay marriage, I think it's bullshit. The main reasons centering on the fact that the institution of state-sponsored marriage stands against other, more important issues for broad social equality and freedom from oppression for all people.

I equate it with the outrage over gay people being denied communion in Catholic churches - the institution is inherently exclusionary, discriminatory, and socially backward... so you want help joining them from all the other people that said institution would continue to discriminate against, exclude, and oppress even if your own group's goals were met? the fuck?

[Anachronous Rex]

Somebody explain to me what the fuck you're saying in that. I am troubled by this and unsure how to figure out what you're saying.

tl;dr

Gay marriage supports an inherently conservative, outmoded type of social structure under the guise of progressivism, and it irritates me.

Don't let the best be the enemy of the good.

[Frisivisia]

Marriage?

Yes, marriage.

If the argument is that the left should support efforts toward gay marriage, I think it's bullshit. The main reasons centering on the fact that the institution of state-sponsored marriage stands against other, more important issues for broad social equality and freedom from oppression for all people.

I equate it with the outrage over gay people being denied communion in Catholic churches - the institution is inherently exclusionary, discriminatory, and socially backward... so you want help joining them from all the other people that said institution would continue to discriminate against, exclude, and oppress even if your own group's goals were met? the fuck?

Marriage helps society. It's a stable environment in which children can grow and be cared for. It's not perfect, it doesn't always work out, but it helps.

[Free Detroit]

tl;dr

Gay marriage supports an inherently conservative, outmoded type of social structure under the guise of progressivism, and it irritates me.

Don't let the best be the enemy of the good.

That's fair, but in this case I'm not sure it applies. The LGBT activist community has a history of being only dubiously committed to the other principles of leftism (and, thus, to the main groups that have consistently supported them for at least a century or so).

[Frisivisia]

tl;dr

Gay marriage supports an inherently conservative, outmoded type of social structure under the guise of progressivism, and it irritates me.

Don't let the best be the enemy of the good.

But that's what anarcho-communists do. They support pipe-dreams.

[Free Detroit]

Marriage helps society. It's a stable environment in which children can grow and be cared for. It's not perfect, it doesn't always work out, but it helps.

I'm not sure it does, any more than any other committed monogamous partnership between parents.

I certainly don't think it requires state intervention.

[Free Detroit]

But that's what anarcho-communists do. They support pipe-dreams.

I do have a thing for lost causes, it's true... and, it's not like I would vote against gay marriage.

But, still, I'd like to see some laundry aired one of these days.

[Frisivisia]

Marriage helps society. It's a stable environment in which children can grow and be cared for. It's not perfect, it doesn't always work out, but it helps.

I'm not sure it does, any more than any other committed monogamous partnership between parents.

I certainly don't think it requires state intervention.

State intervention encourages marriage and staying in marriage, and marriage helps society.

[Free Detroit]

State intervention encourages marriage and staying in marriage, and marriage helps society.

Maybe it's just pathological then, but my experience says otherwise. I tend to see state intervention encouraging marriage and staying in marriage - including troubled and abusive marriages that negatively affect children.

While I agree that state policy can encourage marriage and discourage divorce, I'm not so sure there's a real net positive effect for society.

[Anachronous Rex]

But that's what anarcho-communists do. They support pipe-dreams.

I do have a thing for lost causes, it's true... and, it's not like I would vote against gay marriage.

But, still, I'd like to see some laundry aired one of these days.

I'm already regretting saying this, but if you want to win these big social battles, you sort of have to "Jew" them a little bit.

"Compromise" every time your opponents give ground, but never be satisfied. Take them apart piecemeal.