Who is harmed by same-sex marriage?

[Lamaredia]

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit and in this case you're just digging your own grave for credibility.

Wait a second? I have credibility?

Are you trying to destroy yourself?

[Thafoo]

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit and in this case you're just digging your own grave for credibility.

Wait a second? I have credibility?

So apparently you acknowledge that your debate skills are as good as a chimpanzee trying to write Hamlet in one hour?

[Anachronous Rex]

(Image)

Looks something like that.

Ostriches don't actually do that. Just saying.

Well, they do, but they're looking for things.

[Quovis Celestis]

Ostriches don't actually do that. Just saying.

Well, they do, but they're looking for things.

And stuff.

[Ovisterra]

Ostriches don't actually do that. Just saying.

Says you.

It's a set-up!

[Anachronous Rex]

Wait a second? I have credibility?

Are you trying to destroy yourself?

Actually yes.

I've run into this before with, mostly, creationists, but also other fundies. It's the death-spiral martyr routine.

He's allowing himself to pretend that we're the ones with the problem, and that the reason he can't give compelling argument is that we wouldn't listen to him anyway. Perhaps he hopes he will get banned, that would be the ultimate confirmation of our oppression.

[Ovisterra]

Are you trying to destroy yourself?

Actually yes.

I've run into this before with, mostly, creationists, but also other fundies. It's the death-spiral martyr routine.

He's allowing himself to pretend that we're the ones with the problem, and that the reason he can't give compelling argument is that we wouldn't listen to him anyway. Perhaps he hopes he will get banned, that would be the ultimate confirmation of our oppression.

I've seen it before too. When they realise any of their "arguments" can be refuted easily, they claim they're being "hated", "oppressed", "silenced", or "ganged up on".

[Lamaredia]

Are you trying to destroy yourself?

Actually yes.

I've run into this before with, mostly, creationists, but also other fundies. It's the death-spiral martyr routine.

He's allowing himself to pretend that we're the ones with the problem, and that the reason he can't give compelling argument is that we wouldn't listen to him anyway. Perhaps he hopes he will get banned, that would be the ultimate confirmation of our oppression.

I will never understand the thought patterns of some of these people.

[Divair]

For all those interested in keeping up to date with same sex marriage news, check this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o ... x_marriage

[Individuality-ness]

Actually yes.

I've run into this before with, mostly, creationists, but also other fundies. It's the death-spiral martyr routine.

He's allowing himself to pretend that we're the ones with the problem, and that the reason he can't give compelling argument is that we wouldn't listen to him anyway. Perhaps he hopes he will get banned, that would be the ultimate confirmation of our oppression.

I've seen it before too. When they realise any of their "arguments" can be refuted easily, they claim they're being "hated", "oppressed", "silenced", or "ganged up on".

It's like they WANT to think themselves as the oppressed martyrs of society.

[Ifreann]

I've seen it before too. When they realise any of their "arguments" can be refuted easily, they claim they're being "hated", "oppressed", "silenced", or "ganged up on".

It's like they WANT to think themselves as the oppressed martyrs of society.

Well yeah. They're Christians. They want to be like Christ. He was fucking put to death, and here we sit, not killing Christians, not locking them up, not denying them the right to their religion, not oppressing them at all. Can you blame those who resort to inventing their own oppression?

[Regnum Dominae]

For all those interested in keeping up to date with same sex marriage news, check this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o ... x_marriage

I love Wikipedia. It's also how I keep up with news of new scientific discoveries.

[Individuality-ness]

It's like they WANT to think themselves as the oppressed martyrs of society.

Well yeah. They're Christians. They want to be like Christ. He was fucking put to death, and here we sit, not killing Christians, not locking them up, not denying them the right to their religion, not oppressing them at all. Can you blame those who resort to inventing their own oppression?

Whatever gets them off I guess.

[Lamaredia]

Guessing that i will never have an answer, i better get to bed. The time is 4 in the morning

[Thafoo]

Guessing that i will never have an answer, i better get to bed. The time is 4 in the morning

The guy knows he has no answer to us. We're too good

[Herador]

It's like they WANT to think themselves as the oppressed martyrs of society.

Well yeah. They're Christians. They want to be like Christ. He was fucking put to death, and here we sit, not killing Christians, not locking them up, not denying them the right to their religion, not oppressing them at all. Can you blame those who resort to inventing their own oppression?

Hey, don't lump us all in with him.

[Divair]

Guessing that i will never have an answer, i better get to bed. The time is 4 in the morning

The guy knows he has no answer to us. We're too good

[Anachronous Rex]

Actually yes.

I've run into this before with, mostly, creationists, but also other fundies. It's the death-spiral martyr routine.

He's allowing himself to pretend that we're the ones with the problem, and that the reason he can't give compelling argument is that we wouldn't listen to him anyway. Perhaps he hopes he will get banned, that would be the ultimate confirmation of our oppression.

I will never understand the thought patterns of some of these people.

It used to baffle me to, but then a while back I was in a room with a bunch of Paleontologists. I had always been something of an amateur enthusiast, and so I thought I could discuss the topic with them. One of them said something I disagreed with (it was about Tyrannosaurs, and the degree to which the scavenged), and I thought I would argue the point.

Now, in the past, I had always been able to bully people on the spot with my familiarity with the technical aspects of the argument (basically, I would make points they wouldn't have the knowledge to refute, and offer rebuttals they couldn't quite understand), but with a room full of experts...

An ass had never been rhetorically kicked so thoroughly as mine.

I resolved at that point that, as my position was clearly wrong, I should correct it. But I will never forget the temptation to think that they were the ones with the problem. That they were just jerks, or they were picking on me because I was an undergrad, or something.

It is the path that leads to the Dark Side.

[Manahakatouki]

I will never understand the thought patterns of some of these people.

It used to baffle me to, but then a while back I was in a room with a bunch of Paleontologists. I had always been something of an amateur enthusiast, and so I thought I could discuss the topic with them. One of them said something I disagreed with (it was about Tyrannosaurs, and the degree to which the scavenged), and I thought I would argue the point.

Now, in the past, I had always been able to bully people on the spot with my familiarity with the technical aspects of the argument (basically, I would make points they wouldn't have the knowledge to refute, and offer rebuttals they couldn't quite understand), but with a room full of experts...

An ass had never been rhetorically kicked so thoroughly as mine.

I resolved at that point that, as my position was clearly wrong, I should correct it. But I will never forget the temptation to think that they were the ones with the problem. That they were just jerks, or they were picking on me because I was an undergrad, or something.

It is the path that leads to the Dark Side.

I find understanding the other side helps with debates personally...

Leaves more light if you haphazardly walk along the Darker Side of the Room...

[Tekania]

I have a hard time picking sides because I don't have respect for either side. Both sides are very self-centric. Pro-gay groups don't try to understand the moral commitments of traditional Christians who feel as if their way of life is at risk. Traditional Christians don't attempt to walk in the shoes of a homosexual couple who can't be married. Traditional Christians also don't offer lenience toward practitioners of homosexuality, which being a sin can be forgiven by god like any other sin.

That's not an accurate portrayal of "both sides", well at least it's not accurate to one of them..... The "Pro-gay" side is not made up of people who don't understand the moral commitments of traditional Christians.... the pro-gay side is made up a multitude of different people who believe that same-sex partners should (in the context of the civil law) have marriage available to them. We're not all gay, and many of us are in fact practicing Christians. I perfectly understand the moral commitments of traditional Christians..... I just don't give a rats ass about what their moral commitments may be in the context of civil law. The civil law is not there for the purpose of enforcing their moral commitments. Their personal moral commitments are only relevant between themselves and their church.

[Augarundus]

I've heard there's some kind of fabric of Society's that it would hurt. That doesn't seem to be the case, given how good gays are with fabric, but conservatives are afraid their textiles will be wiped out, for some reason.

(IMAGE)

Lol, I thought it was pretty smart...

[Ifreann]

Well yeah. They're Christians. They want to be like Christ. He was fucking put to death, and here we sit, not killing Christians, not locking them up, not denying them the right to their religion, not oppressing them at all. Can you blame those who resort to inventing their own oppression?

Hey, don't lump us all in with him.

I did specify "those who resort to inventing their own oppression".

[Herador]

Hey, don't lump us all in with him.

I did specify "those who resort to inventing their own oppression".

Fair point, sorry.

[Tekania]

A good idea. But I doubt anyone could keep government from forcing churches to marry homosexual couples. If the government can force churches to pay contraception against their beliefs who knows what else they can do involving forcing churches to do things.

Churches now aren't forced to marry previously divorced people, interracial couples, non-members and all sort of other people who can legally wed within the context of the civil law.... There's nothing to indicate this would be any different. No one is interested in your crazy unfounded conspiracy theories.

[Tekania]

They're about as relevant as creationists debating evolution, or racists debating segregation. Religious beliefs have no place in the government, especially when they discriminate against entire sections of the population.

The point is this is a law that many feel pertains to their religious beliefs.

I'm not concerned with their personal opinion that they have the right to trample upon the religious liberties of others. I would suggest they learn Christian forbearance and stop giving us Christians a bad name.