Who is harmed by same-sex marriage?

[Neutraligon]

Your church doesn't own the word marriage sweetie. Unless you're saying that atheists aren't really married?

It's not "my church" i believe in god but i don't attend a church. I would say my argument is centrist, Christians are relevant in this argument because they make up a very large proportion of the USA (the country i have been referring to) and the legalization of gay marriage goes against their religious convictions, homosexuals are arguably more closely involved because this impacts whether they can be married. My personal belief as previously stated is that this should remain a state decision due to different concentrations of conservative Christians in different areas of the USA. Also I have no problem with atheists. I never said I think that atheists aren't married.

Except the only marriage being discussed is marriage in terms of the the civil rights that are part of the secular institution. Since we are talking about a secular institution, religion should have no part in it. If the religious institution does not want to perform a ceremony in front of god, more power to them, but a religious institution should not prevent people from being treated equally before the law.

[Anachronous Rex]

Looks like I'm part of the 14%.

RUN, RUN! RUN WHILE YOU STILL CAN!

Or else we'll... tell you you're wrong.

Oh no.

[Divair]

RUN, RUN! RUN WHILE YOU STILL CAN!

Or else we'll... tell you you're wrong.

Oh no.

Reminds me of people whining about "militant atheists".

[Cosara]

It's not "my church" i believe in god but i don't attend a church. I would say my argument is centrist, Christians are relevant in this argument because they make up a very large proportion of the USA (the country i have been referring to) and the legalization of gay marriage goes against their religious convictions, homosexuals are arguably more closely involved because this impacts whether they can be married. My personal belief as previously stated is that this should remain a state decision due to different concentrations of conservative Christians in different areas of the USA. Also I have no problem with atheists. I never said I think that atheists aren't married.

Except the only marriage being discussed is marriage in terms of the the civil rights that are part of the secular institution. Since we are talking about a secular institution, religion should have no part in it. If the religious institution does not want to perform a ceremony in front of god, more power to them, but a religious institution should not prevent people from being treated equally before the law.

I don't want the Federal Government ruling either way. I think Gay Marriage should be left to the states.

[Myrensis]

No, the point of my analogy was the absence of a major faction in a major decision involving them. Whether you disagree or not marriage is a major part of Christianity, and not including a major faction in an argument is anti-democratic and ignorant. Christian opposition has a right to argue and be heard, homosexuals also have a right to argue and be heard. I can't believe that people on this forum would be so prejudiced against one side or another as to not even acknowledge it.

No, prejudice and ignorance is thinking that your personal feelings on a subject are just as important as someone else's right to be treated equally under the law.

Do you plan on marrying someone of the same gender? No? Congratulations, gay marriage does not affect you, AT ALL. The fact that someone, somewhere, is doing something you don't like does not make you a 'major faction' whose voice needs to be heard.

[Divair]

Except the only marriage being discussed is marriage in terms of the the civil rights that are part of the secular institution. Since we are talking about a secular institution, religion should have no part in it. If the religious institution does not want to perform a ceremony in front of god, more power to them, but a religious institution should not prevent people from being treated equally before the law.

I don't want the Federal Government ruling either way. I think Gay Marriage should be left to the states.

I'm assuming you believe the same about voting rights for women & slavery, right?

[Augarundus]

I've heard there's some kind of fabric of Society's that it would hurt. That doesn't seem to be the case, given how good gays are with fabric, but conservatives are afraid their textiles will be wiped out, for some reason.

[Thafoo]

I'm going to guess someone in this room is Hoosiers...

[Divair]

I've heard there's some kind of fabric of Society's that it would hurt. That doesn't seem to be the case, given how good gays are with fabric, but conservatives are afraid their textiles will be wiped out, for some reason.

[Northern Dominus]

Except the only marriage being discussed is marriage in terms of the the civil rights that are part of the secular institution. Since we are talking about a secular institution, religion should have no part in it. If the religious institution does not want to perform a ceremony in front of god, more power to them, but a religious institution should not prevent people from being treated equally before the law.

I don't want the Federal Government ruling either way. I think Gay Marriage should be left to the states.

We've seen what the states do with fundamental rights. They attack them with legislation and marginalization, and then when people protest it some states attack those protestors with fire hoses billy clubs and attack dogs.

Fundamental rights should not be put to a vote. They're fundamental for a reason, they apply to all human beings without favor or exclusion. The supreme court said as much in the landmark case Loving v. Virginia, from which I quote Chief Justice Earl Warren:

Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival...

[Neutraligon]

Except the only marriage being discussed is marriage in terms of the the civil rights that are part of the secular institution. Since we are talking about a secular institution, religion should have no part in it. If the religious institution does not want to perform a ceremony in front of god, more power to them, but a religious institution should not prevent people from being treated equally before the law.

I don't want the Federal Government ruling either way. I think Gay Marriage should be left to the states.

No. If I were a member of the military, and married in the state in which I was stationed, and then told I had to move to a state where my marriage wasn't recognized, this would cause a serious problem. There are to many issues created if some states recognize the marriage and others don't.

[Enadail]

It's not "my church" i believe in god but i don't attend a church. I would say my argument is centrist, Christians are relevant in this argument because they make up a very large proportion of the USA (the country i have been referring to)

The number of Christians doesn't matter to the argument, any more then the number of people that must be in a minority religion for it to receive equal protection of the law. In fact, US law is designed to protect AGAINST tyranny from the majority.

and the legalization of gay marriage goes against their religious convictions,

Which doesn't matter, because the law doesn't care about religion. Religious beliefs do not play into what laws should be passed.

homosexuals are arguably more closely involved because this impacts whether they can be married.

Which is also irrelevant. Kinda like saying women are involved in gender equality or that non-whites are involved in racial equality. Whats your point?

My personal belief as previously stated is that this should remain a state decision due to different concentrations of conservative Christians in different areas of the USA.

And its a bullshit argument, because it essentially violates the free movement of business between states. It is an interstate matter, thus it is a national matter. Until we become a confederation of states, this whole "each state should decide everything on their own" argument is just crap.

Also I have no problem with atheists. I never said I think that atheists aren't married.

[/quote]

But as far as the Christian majority is concerned, if their religion is what guides marriage, then non-Christians aren't married. Nor are non-virgins, because they should already all be stoned to death. Unless they were raped... raped girls are ok to marry, as long as the rapist pays the girls family.

[Cosara]

My stances:

ANTI Gay Marriage

ANTI Gay Adoption

PRO Civil Unions


Let the hate continue...

[The Steel Magnolia]

Or else we'll... tell you you're wrong.

Oh no.

Reminds me of people whining about "militant atheists".

image

In fairness militant atheists are assholes.

And they're always libertarian though really, the two traits go hand in hand.

[The Steel Magnolia]

My stances:

ANTI Gay Marriage

ANTI Gay Adoption

PRO Civil Unions


Let the hate continue...

You know, this is the sort of junior high sophistry I've come to expect on here. "Not tolerating intolerance is intolerance! You're no better than we are! Nyahhh!"

Yeah fuck that.

[Divair]

My stances:

ANTI Gay Marriage

ANTI Gay Adoption

PRO Civil Unions


Let the hate continue...

Yes, we know you hate freedom and America. You really don't need to tell us every other post.

Reminds me of people whining about "militant atheists".

[url=http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/extremists/3.png]image

In fairness militant atheists are assholes.

And they're always libertarian though really, the two traits go hand in hand.

Well duh, I just find it hilarious that certain people whine about them continuously.

[Cosara]

Reminds me of people whining about "militant atheists".

[url=http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/extremists/3.png]image

In fairness militant atheists are assholes.

And they're always libertarian though really, the two traits go hand in hand.

Militant Atheists who want to destroy religion = Liberators


Seems legit...

[Anachronous Rex]

My stances:

ANTI Gay Marriage

ANTI Gay Adoption

PRO Civil Unions


Let the hate continue...

Palpatine?

[The Steel Magnolia]

In fairness militant atheists are assholes.

And they're always libertarian though really, the two traits go hand in hand.

Militant Atheists who want to destroy religion = Liberators


Seems legit...

Asshole atheists tend towards the libertarian.

[Thafoo]

My stances:

ANTI Gay Marriage

ANTI Gay Adoption

PRO Civil Unions


Let the hate continue...

I'm sorry, but your views are invalid. Please try again.

[Menassa]

My stances:

ANTI Gay Marriage

ANTI Gay Adoption

PRO Civil Unions


Let the hate continue...

Why are you anti-gay marriage... you should be anti-marriage in general.

[Cosara]

Militant Atheists who want to destroy religion = Liberators


Seems legit...

Asshole atheists tend towards the libertarian.

Whoops, misread your post.

[Divair]

Militant Atheists who want to destroy religion = Liberators


Seems legit...

Asshole atheists tend towards the libertarian.

Or objectivism. *cough* Ayn Rand *cough*

[Cosara]

My stances:

ANTI Gay Marriage

ANTI Gay Adoption

PRO Civil Unions


Let the hate continue...

I'm sorry, but your views are invalid. Please try again.

They are my views, therefor are valid.

[Thafoo]

I'm sorry, but your views are invalid. Please try again.

They are my views, therefor are valid.

..and gay marriage is wrong how