All Abortion Illegal in North Dakota

[Salandriagado]

Driving drunk is a crime. Getting pregnant accidentally isn't, or at least, shouldn't be. I do get the impression that some people here think it is, morally, anyway.

Getting pregnant isn't a crime. Killing the baby is. Its called First Degree Murder. Maybe its not the mother's fault for getting pregnant, but its not the child's either.

It's not murder. It's ceasing to provide sustenance.

[Farnhamia]

Well, if I'm ungrateful, then you have no idea what its like working your back off from the age of 12 to satisfy your mother's heroin addiction, which is why she got pregnant in the first place, cuz, you know. Hard to remember about condoms when you're high on dope.

Not forgiving my mother for wanting to deal with an emotional time? How about not forgiving my mother for trying to kill me and causing a truckload of health issues to me, with which I now have to live for my entire life.

leaving your particular circumstances out of it...WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO FORCE A HEROIN ADDICT TO HAVE A BABY? (yes I was shouting)

I admit I missed the heroin addict part. I can only do as Sibirsky and ...

[Atnae]

Getting pregnant isn't a crime. Killing the baby is. Its called First Degree Murder. Maybe its not the mother's fault for getting pregnant, but its not the child's either.

It's not murder. It's ceasing to provide sustenance.

Technically that can be classed as wilful negligence.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The problem with your logic is that you are saying that the fetus should have the right to say "I get to use your body!" to the mother. Generally that is something that parasites say. Pregnancy... can have a lot of harmful side effects, even with modern medicine. If the mother is not one hundred percent willing to experience them, these side effects become torture. By equating fetuses with personhood, you are saying that you support forcing women to endure nine months of torture inflicted by another human being. Imprisonment and torture for nine months is generally considered a pretty major crime.

Additionally, the adoption system (in the United States, I can give no observations from other countries) is horribly broken. It is easier to adopt a child from another country than it is to adopt a baby here. The system is weighted heavily in favor of heterosexual white Christian couples being able to adopt, and all others being rejected. A fraction of all babies put up for adoption (1-3%) are adopted each year. The rest get to be in foster homes, which have a high probability of being abusive. There is a high rate of suicide and drug overdose death among children who grow up in the adoption system.

Yes, a woman who does not want to be pregnant could have the baby and give it up for adoption. She would, however, be playing Russian roulette with her health and mental well-being, and with the baby's health and mental well-being. Choosing to humanely abort a fetus is choosing to not risk the fetus's health. Additionally, according to the texts that many pro lifers consider sacred, aborting a fetus is equivalent to giving it an express ticket to paradise. I personally do not believe this, but... it is another argument, from text that they consider important.

Lol, I am a Christian but yet I am pro-choice.

[Lunalia]

The problem with your logic is that you are saying that the fetus should have the right to say "I get to use your body!" to the mother. Generally that is something that parasites say. Pregnancy... can have a lot of harmful side effects, even with modern medicine. If the mother is not one hundred percent willing to experience them, these side effects become torture. By equating fetuses with personhood, you are saying that you support forcing women to endure nine months of torture inflicted by another human being. Imprisonment and torture for nine months is generally considered a pretty major crime.

Additionally, the adoption system (in the United States, I can give no observations from other countries) is horribly broken. It is easier to adopt a child from another country than it is to adopt a baby here. The system is weighted heavily in favor of heterosexual white Christian couples being able to adopt, and all others being rejected. A fraction of all babies put up for adoption (1-3%) are adopted each year. The rest get to be in foster homes, which have a high probability of being abusive. There is a high rate of suicide and drug overdose death among children who grow up in the adoption system.

Yes, a woman who does not want to be pregnant could have the baby and give it up for adoption. She would, however, be playing Russian roulette with her health and mental well-being, and with the baby's health and mental well-being. Choosing to humanely abort a fetus is choosing to not risk the fetus's health. Additionally, according to the texts that many pro lifers consider sacred, aborting a fetus is equivalent to giving it an express ticket to paradise. I personally do not believe this, but... it is another argument, from text that they consider important.

Lol, I am a Christian but yet I am pro-choice.

Hey, then you can confirm that the aborted fetuses get an express ticket to paradise!

[Salandriagado]

Which abortion isn't.

Abortion is the killing of a human being.

And murder is "when a man of sound memory and of the age of discretion, unlawfully killeth within any county of the realm any reasonable creature in rerum natura under the King's peace, with malice aforthought, either expressed by the party or implied by law, so as the party wounded, or hurt, etc. die of the wound or hurt, etc.".

Abortion lacks "unlawfully", "reasonable", "in rerum natura", and "malice aforthought".

[Atnae]

Additionally, the adoption system (in the United States, I can give no observations from other countries) is horribly broken. It is easier to adopt a child from another country than it is to adopt a baby here. The system is weighted heavily in favor of heterosexual white Christian couples being able to adopt, and all others being rejected. A fraction of all babies put up for adoption (1-3%) are adopted each year. The rest get to be in foster homes, which have a high probability of being abusive. There is a high rate of suicide and drug overdose death among children who grow up in the adoption system.

Yes, a woman who does not want to be pregnant could have the baby and give it up for adoption. She would, however, be playing Russian roulette with her health and mental well-being, and with the baby's health and mental well-being. Choosing to humanely abort a fetus is choosing to not risk the fetus's health. Additionally, according to the texts that many pro lifers consider sacred, aborting a fetus is equivalent to giving it an express ticket to paradise. I personally do not believe this, but... it is another argument, from text that they consider important.

Don't get me wrong, it would be wonderful if it was possible to remove a first trimester fetus from a woman's body and grow it in a lab until it is at the end of its third trimester, and then give it directly into the arms of a loving family with no risk of it ending up in a foster system. But modern technology is not yet at that point, and until that scenario is possible, abortion is the only solution that does not end in thousands of unwanted babies trapped in the adoption system each year.

.... Which it would be nice if they were all donated to the Vatican, but that would be using them as punishments, and I don't believe in using children as punishments.

Your sarcasm falls upon deaf ears. It is impossible for any couple that isn't heterosexual, white and christian to possibly be compus menti in any way, else they would choose to be heterosexual, white and christian.

[Lunalia]

Abortion is the killing of a human being.

And murder is "when a man of sound memory and of the age of discretion, unlawfully killeth within any county of the realm any reasonable creature in rerum natura under the King's peace, with malice aforthought, either expressed by the party or implied by law, so as the party wounded, or hurt, etc. die of the wound or hurt, etc.".

Abortion lacks "unlawfully", "reasonable", "in rerum natura", and "malice aforthought".

you forgot sound memory and age.

[Neo Art]

It's not murder. It's ceasing to provide sustenance.

Technically that can be classed as wilful negligence.

.....holy shit.

I love you so so much right now.

[Atnae]

Technically that can be classed as wilful negligence.

.....holy shit.

I love you so so much right now.

aw shucks

[Ceannairceach]

Technically that can be classed as wilful negligence.

.....holy shit.

I love you so so much right now.

Did you just have a lawyergasm, Neo?

[Neo Art]

.....holy shit.

I love you so so much right now.

Did you just have a lawyergasm, Neo?

That was amazing.

[Cosara]

EXACTLY! That's the message that I've preached throughout this thread! Finally, someone gets it!

YOU zip it! Just because I commend his mother doesn't mean I am pro-life! I am very much against any and all abortion bans you people may think because women are going to abort anyways, and if they can't find a legal way they are going to do it clandestinely at the risk of their health.

Then you are not a sensible person. Anyone who is Pro-Choice disregards the life of the fetus and instead gives the mother the god-like authority to decide if the child lives or dies.

[Atnae]

Did you just have a lawyergasm, Neo?

That was amazing.

This might just be paranoia but I have the feeling I'm missing something...

[Neo Art]

.....holy shit.

I love you so so much right now.

aw shucks

You have no idea how nonsensical that was, do you?

[Ashmoria]

YOU zip it! Just because I commend his mother doesn't mean I am pro-life! I am very much against any and all abortion bans you people may think because women are going to abort anyways, and if they can't find a legal way they are going to do it clandestinely at the risk of their health.

Then you are not a sensible person. Anyone who is Pro-Choice disregards the life of the fetus and instead gives the mother the god-like authority to decide if the child lives or dies.

not god like.

[Fintanland]

Then you are not a sensible person. Anyone who is Pro-Choice disregards the life of the fetus and instead gives the mother the god-like authority to decide if the child lives or dies.

By that same token, you disregard the rights of the mother.

[Neo Art]

That was amazing.

This might just be paranoia but I have the feeling I'm missing something...

"wilful negligence" is a legal oxymoron. One, by definition, can never "willfully" do something negligently. It's definitionally impossible.

[Farnhamia]

Then you are not a sensible person. Anyone who is Pro-Choice disregards the life of the fetus and instead gives the mother the god-like authority to decide if the child lives or dies.

By that same token, you disregard the rights of the mother.

That's okay, women, you know, next thing they'll want to vote and wear pants and have orgasms.

[Lunalia]

YOU zip it! Just because I commend his mother doesn't mean I am pro-life! I am very much against any and all abortion bans you people may think because women are going to abort anyways, and if they can't find a legal way they are going to do it clandestinely at the risk of their health.

Then you are not a sensible person. Anyone who is Pro-Choice disregards the life of the fetus and instead gives the mother the god-like authority to decide if the child lives or dies.

Whereas pro lifers give the fetus the god-like authority to decide if the mother lives or is tortured or dies. I see you chose to avoid my long, well written reply to your post on the previous page in favor of repeating that over and over again.

[Atnae]

This might just be paranoia but I have the feeling I'm missing something...

"wilful negligence" is a legal oxymoron. One, by definition, can never "willfully" do something negligently. It's definitionally impossible.

can I blame it on being tired?

[Neo Art]

YOU zip it! Just because I commend his mother doesn't mean I am pro-life! I am very much against any and all abortion bans you people may think because women are going to abort anyways, and if they can't find a legal way they are going to do it clandestinely at the risk of their health.

Then you are not a sensible person. Anyone who is Pro-Choice disregards the life of the fetus and instead gives the mother the god-like authority to decide if the child lives or dies.

We give the farmer the god-like authority to decide if the cow lives or dies.

So the fuck what?

[Farnhamia]

"wilful negligence" is a legal oxymoron. One, by definition, can never "willfully" do something negligently. It's definitionally impossible.

can I blame it on being tired?

No. *summons Guards* Take him away.

[Zweite Alaje]

Not in a situation like this. This pro-"choice" business must be dealt with harshly.

Don't like an opinion? BRING OUT THE FASCISM, MOTHERFUCKERS!

If it takes Fascism, so be it. The liberal death culture must be destroyed.

[Cosara]

Then you are not a sensible person. Anyone who is Pro-Choice disregards the life of the fetus and instead gives the mother the god-like authority to decide if the child lives or dies.

By that same token, you disregard the rights of the mother.

The mother doesn't have the right to decide if someone has the right to live. The right to live is universal.