All Abortion Illegal in North Dakota

[Benuty]

The woman made the mistake, so she should have to suffer the consequences.

You realise that you literally just said that women are at fault for being raped, right?

He must be a Saudi Arabia legalist.

[Farnhamia]

I'm absolutely against abortion and I will speak against in all cases.

Though, as I'm neither a woman nor a conservative, I realize that what I belive to be right or wrong has no value on the decisions of another person. I think abortion should be decriminalized on the grounds that it will happen regardless of its legal status, and the best thing is to make it legal and that people should be allowed to do what they want with their bodies.

No matter what anybody says though, unless in case of rape, a phoetus that will be born severely handicapped or incapable of living long, or risk to the mother's life, I don't find any argument that can justify the fact that you're killing a human being and justifying the killing to be reasonable because not only it cannot defend itself, it can't even sustain itself biologically. A foetus is the single most fragile form of human life and killing it for the sole reason that the pregnancy is unwanted is something incredibly unethical and cruel; sentience does not change the right of life of someone, a person is a coma is still entitles to its rights regardless of the fact it's also incapable of sustaining itself, a person that has suffered a severe accident and lost most of its ability to function is also incapable of sustaining itself. All of those people require someone's care, and to me, an abortion is like if a nurse taking care of a senile old person decided to strangle him just because caring for him is an annoyance.

It's none of your business, sorry. Government intrusion in an incredibly intimate aspect of women's lives.

[Kengburg]

I'm absolutely against abortion and I will speak against in all cases.

Though, as I'm neither a woman nor a conservative, I realize that what I belive to be right or wrong has no value on the decisions of another person. I think abortion should be decriminalized on the grounds that it will happen regardless of its legal status, and the best thing is to make it legal and that people should be allowed to do what they want with their bodies.

No matter what anybody says though, unless in case of rape, a phoetus that will be born severely handicapped or incapable of living long, or risk to the mother's life, I don't find any argument that can justify the fact that you're killing a human being and justifying the killing to be reasonable because not only it cannot defend itself, it can't even sustain itself biologically. A foetus is the single most fragile form of human life and killing it for the sole reason that the pregnancy is unwanted is something incredibly unethical and cruel; sentience does not change the right of life of someone, a person is a coma is still entitles to its rights regardless of the fact it's also incapable of sustaining itself, a person that has suffered a severe accident and lost most of its ability to function is also incapable of sustaining itself. All of those people require someone's care, and to me, an abortion is like if a nurse taking care of a senile old person decided to strangle him just because caring for him is an annoyance.

You just practically ignored the last 30+ pages, a fetus is not a developed human being. Get educated, or read the past ten pages.

[Farnhamia]

You realise that you literally just said that women are at fault for being raped, right?

He must be a Saudi Arabia legalist.

I put that in my signature, it was so absurd.

[Benuty]

It's funny, I can't remember having all those constitutional rights when I was a fetus. Right, that's because I wasn't sapient.

You mean sentient?

Well even if you were, you wouldn't be able to see outside of your mother so its clearly redundant.

[Fintanland]

No matter what anybody says though, unless in case of rape, a phoetus that will be born severely handicapped or incapable of living long, or risk to the mother's life, I don't find any argument that can justify the fact that you're killing a human being and justifying the killing to be reasonable because not only it cannot defend itself, it can't even sustain itself biologically. A foetus is the single most fragile form of human life and killing it for the sole reason that the pregnancy is unwanted is something incredibly unethical and cruel; sentience does not change the right of life of someone, a person is a coma is still entitles to its rights regardless of the fact it's also incapable of sustaining itself, a person that has suffered a severe accident and lost most of its ability to function is also incapable of sustaining itself. All of those people require someone's care, and to me, an abortion is like if a nurse taking care of a senile old person decided to strangle him just because caring for him is an annoyance.

Fetuses do not "require some care". They are literally unable to live without the mother. And that is a huge difference, since it means one person will be forced to provide for them for months, apparently without right to renounce that obligation.

[Ujh Uhj]

..........he was implying that the Nazi salute is appropriate given the authoritarian-ness of the situation

There's nothing wrong with authoritarianism.

There is plenty wrong with authoritarianism.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

EXACTLY! That's the message that I've preached throughout this thread! Finally, someone gets it!

YOU zip it! Just because I commend his mother doesn't mean I am pro-life! I am very much against any and all abortion bans you people may think because women are going to abort anyways, and if they can't find a legal way they are going to do it clandestinely at the risk of their health.

[Carpathia and Moldova]

Children aren't involved in abortions, so the rights of children are irrelevant.

I'd like to note that, if you were aborted, you would not ever have cared. Because you couldn't. You wouldn't have ever had feelings, or opinions, or anything, because you were not a person yet. And not forgiving your own mother for trying to deal with an emotional time in her life by considering all the possible avenues she might take? What a horrible, ungrateful person you are. You should feel bad.

Well, if I'm ungrateful, then you have no idea what its like working your back off from the age of 12 to satisfy your mother's heroin addiction, which is why she got pregnant in the first place, cuz, you know. Hard to remember about condoms when you're high on dope.

Not forgiving my mother for wanting to deal with an emotional time? How about not forgiving my mother for trying to kill me and causing a truckload of health issues to me, with which I now have to live for my entire life.

[Ashmoria]

(Image)
So True

Abortion. Men don't understand the impact that abortion makes on a woman's life. Just because the baby daddy doesn't want the outcome of a broken condom or sheer stupidity, then they shouldn't have done it. The fetus is still a baby. You can't deny that. I mean, sure, if you know the baby is going to be brain-dead or you're going to die from having it, that's good. Saving yourself from death and heartbreak. But if you're just stupid, suck it up. The baby will teach you to grow up.

that is an unfair generalization. many men understand the pain involved because they are involved with a woman who has to make the decision.

[Farnhamia]

Children aren't involved in abortions, so the rights of children are irrelevant.

I'd like to note that, if you were aborted, you would not ever have cared. Because you couldn't. You wouldn't have ever had feelings, or opinions, or anything, because you were not a person yet. And not forgiving your own mother for trying to deal with an emotional time in her life by considering all the possible avenues she might take? What a horrible, ungrateful person you are. You should feel bad.

Well, if I'm ungrateful, then you have no idea what its like working your back off from the age of 12 to satisfy your mother's heroin addiction, which is why she got pregnant in the first place, cuz, you know. Hard to remember about condoms when you're high on dope.

Not forgiving my mother for wanting to deal with an emotional time? How about not forgiving my mother for trying to kill me and causing a truckload of health issues to me, with which I now have to live for my entire life.

Your mother wanting an abortion caused you health issues? You're really bad at this.

[Asperia]

I'm absolutely against abortion and I will speak against in all cases.

Though, as I'm neither a woman nor a conservative, I realize that what I belive to be right or wrong has no value on the decisions of another person. I think abortion should be decriminalized on the grounds that it will happen regardless of its legal status, and the best thing is to make it legal and that people should be allowed to do what they want with their bodies.

No matter what anybody says though, unless in case of rape, a phoetus that will be born severely handicapped or incapable of living long, or risk to the mother's life, I don't find any argument that can justify the fact that you're killing a human being and justifying the killing to be reasonable because not only it cannot defend itself, it can't even sustain itself biologically. A foetus is the single most fragile form of human life and killing it for the sole reason that the pregnancy is unwanted is something incredibly unethical and cruel; sentience does not change the right of life of someone, a person is a coma is still entitles to its rights regardless of the fact it's also incapable of sustaining itself, a person that has suffered a severe accident and lost most of its ability to function is also incapable of sustaining itself. All of those people require someone's care, and to me, an abortion is like if a nurse taking care of a senile old person decided to strangle him just because caring for him is an annoyance.

Non-sapience and non-sentience of the fetus.

As for comas, there is usually a chance of waking up (even if they're diagnosed as permanent), so I disagree with DNR in those cases without the consent and/or obvious pain of the unconscious/dying.

[Salandriagado]

Except that's not a choice.
Here in the real world most of us (at least in the US) have to own a vehicle in order to get to work on time, in order to make money, in order to eat.
Perhaps you'd like to join the rest of us in reality?

In reality, driving is not a choice?

For most people, no, it isn't. I'm an exception, in that I live within walking distance of where I work, but I am very much a rarity.

[Ujh Uhj]

It's funny, I can't remember having all those constitutional rights when I was a fetus. Right, that's because I wasn't sapient.

You mean sentient?

Well even if you were, you wouldn't be able to see outside of your mother so its clearly redundant.

No. Well, both apply.

[Lunalia]

Except nobody is saying that. "worthless"? "sack"? "should"? "brutally"? "murdered"? Those are all your own words.

You have repeatedly said that fetuses are just sack of cell parasites and the mothers should have the right to play god and decide if they want the child growing inside of them to have a life, or if she should just say "No life for you." and take the fetus's life before it even begins.

The problem with your logic is that you are saying that the fetus should have the right to say "I get to use your body!" to the mother. Generally that is something that parasites say. Pregnancy... can have a lot of harmful side effects, even with modern medicine. If the mother is not one hundred percent willing to experience them, these side effects become torture. By equating fetuses with personhood, you are saying that you support forcing women to endure nine months of torture inflicted by another human being. Imprisonment and torture for nine months is generally considered a pretty major crime.

Additionally, the adoption system (in the United States, I can give no observations from other countries) is horribly broken. It is easier to adopt a child from another country than it is to adopt a baby here. The system is weighted heavily in favor of heterosexual white Christian couples being able to adopt, and all others being rejected. A fraction of all babies put up for adoption (1-3%) are adopted each year. The rest get to be in foster homes, which have a high probability of being abusive. There is a high rate of suicide and drug overdose death among children who grow up in the adoption system.

Yes, a woman who does not want to be pregnant could have the baby and give it up for adoption. She would, however, be playing Russian roulette with her health and mental well-being, and with the baby's health and mental well-being. Choosing to humanely abort a fetus is choosing to not risk the fetus's health. Additionally, according to the texts that many pro lifers consider sacred, aborting a fetus is equivalent to giving it an express ticket to paradise. I personally do not believe this, but... it is another argument, from text that they consider important.

Don't get me wrong, it would be wonderful if it was possible to remove a first trimester fetus from a woman's body and grow it in a lab until it is at the end of its third trimester, and then give it directly into the arms of a loving family with no risk of it ending up in a foster system. But modern technology is not yet at that point, and until that scenario is possible, abortion is the only solution that does not end in thousands of unwanted babies trapped in the adoption system each year.

.... Which it would be nice if they were all donated to the Vatican, but that would be using them as punishments, and I don't believe in using children as punishments.

[Ceannairceach]

Children aren't involved in abortions, so the rights of children are irrelevant.

I'd like to note that, if you were aborted, you would not ever have cared. Because you couldn't. You wouldn't have ever had feelings, or opinions, or anything, because you were not a person yet. And not forgiving your own mother for trying to deal with an emotional time in her life by considering all the possible avenues she might take? What a horrible, ungrateful person you are. You should feel bad.

Well, if I'm ungrateful, then you have no idea what its like working your back off from the age of 12 to satisfy your mother's heroin addiction, which is why she got pregnant in the first place, cuz, you know. Hard to remember about condoms when you're high on dope.

Not forgiving my mother for wanting to deal with an emotional time? How about not forgiving my mother for trying to kill me and causing a truckload of health issues to me, with which I now have to live for my entire life.

Well, why don't we just have a pity party for you, then. That's obviously what you want. But why don't we actually get on topic, rather than dive into your obviously interesting past?

[Atnae]

the keys required to ask What about rape? are on the verge of giving out.

I view aborting a rape child as wrong, because a rape child is no less prescious than a child that happened through consensually.

Don't get me wrong, it's a shitty situation for all involved except the rapist. And the most important part IMO is that through abortion, the mother's entire life may not be utterly derailed through medical care, maternity leave and then all the related cost and effort of maintaining a child which reminds her every time she looks at the child of that one godawful night where everything went to shit. I'm not saying abortion is a happy solution, I'm saying it is a better solution than forcing her to continue with the pregnancy and child for almost 20 years.

[Munrova]

..........he was implying that the Nazi salute is appropriate given the authoritarian-ness of the situation

There's nothing wrong with authoritarianism.

Yep. All those authoritarian regimes throughout history ended with rainbows and happiness, am I right?

Right?

[Zweite Alaje]

There's nothing wrong with authoritarianism.

There is plenty wrong with authoritarianism.

Not in a situation like this. This pro-"choice" business must be dealt with harshly.

[Salandriagado]

Vazzy, Christ doesn't like slavery.

Its not slavery. It gives person-hood to embryos!

And thereby implicitly legalises on-demand abortion.

[Ashmoria]

Children aren't involved in abortions, so the rights of children are irrelevant.

I'd like to note that, if you were aborted, you would not ever have cared. Because you couldn't. You wouldn't have ever had feelings, or opinions, or anything, because you were not a person yet. And not forgiving your own mother for trying to deal with an emotional time in her life by considering all the possible avenues she might take? What a horrible, ungrateful person you are. You should feel bad.

Well, if I'm ungrateful, then you have no idea what its like working your back off from the age of 12 to satisfy your mother's heroin addiction, which is why she got pregnant in the first place, cuz, you know. Hard to remember about condoms when you're high on dope.

Not forgiving my mother for wanting to deal with an emotional time? How about not forgiving my mother for trying to kill me and causing a truckload of health issues to me, with which I now have to live for my entire life.

leaving your particular circumstances out of it...WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO FORCE A HEROIN ADDICT TO HAVE A BABY? (yes I was shouting)

[Ujh Uhj]

There is plenty wrong with authoritarianism.

Not in a situation like this. This pro-"choice" business must be dealt with harshly.

Mmmkay then say that. Authoritarianism in general is a bad thing. Giving rights to a fetus that trump the rights of a fully sapient, sentient, and productive human being is also a bad thing.

[Wisconsin9]

There is plenty wrong with authoritarianism.

Not in a situation like this. This pro-"choice" business must be dealt with harshly.

Don't like an opinion? BRING OUT THE FASCISM, MOTHERFUCKERS!

[Neo Art]

There is plenty wrong with authoritarianism.

Not in a situation like this. This pro-"choice" business must be dealt with harshly.

You're adoreable.

[Farnhamia]

Not in a situation like this. This pro-"choice" business must be dealt with harshly.

Don't like an opinion? BRING OUT THE FASCISM, MOTHERFUCKERS!

Well, FEMA has to do something with those camps.