Healthcare: Right or Privilege?

[Esternial]

Ok. Well we might as well ditch markets completely due to that logic.

I guess a guy who finds the cure to cancer, according to you, wanted to spend years of his life and tons of money on a cure and then keep it to himself.

Oh, and apparently he got no external funds. Financed it himself.

Give me a break

Interestingly, I believe Esternial had the opposite idea: that someone would do good with no profit motive.

But I like your slippery slope response.

Interestingly, you argue for public healthcare with your statement: we're all interconnected, and healthy people grow market, sick people do not (for the most part). By keeping people healthy, we grow the economy.

Oh right, I was trying to point it out by stating to opposite, which was completely ridiculous. Now I remember!

[Maurepas]

I would let the great Lewis Black sum up my feelings on the subject:

"I'm just not sure that healthcare is a profit making institution. I'm just not sure, and you know why? Because it's what stands between you AND DROPPING FUCKIN DEAD! It's not cellphones, it's not bottled water, it's not that Time Warner shit! It's YOUR FUCKIN HEALTH!" - Lewis Black

And I think you could really say that's my view on most of what should be private and what should be public.

[Enadail]

I would let the great Lewis Black sum up my feelings on the subject:

"I'm just not sure that healthcare is a profit making institution. I'm just not sure, and you know why? Because it's what stands between you AND DROPPING FUCKIN DEAD! It's not cellphones, it's not bottled water, it's not that Time Warner shit! It's YOUR FUCKIN HEALTH!" - Lewis Black

And I think you could really say that's my view on most of what should be private and what should be public.

Forgetting ethics for a second, health care CANNOT operate under free market principles in any way, there's no sensible reason for it to remain completely private.

[Liriena]

A right under many human rights conventions, recognized by my own government, and I recognize it as such, as well as believe that it is a state's duty to ensure that it is provided to all citizens, regardless of age, gender or income.

[Abdelkicker]

In its most crude sense it's a privilege, a privilege a human being has to earn.

But...

given the many rights we have right now such as freedom of speech, freedom of act, those factors can affect our health in terms of food consumption, daily work and et cetera. So, therefore, to be taken care of possible disasters from these everyday events is also a right.

[Saiwania]

I used to think that healthcare should be something that the free market provides, but I can understand how a government funded health care system with universal access could be cheaper and more efficient than what the US has currently, especially if the focus is on preventative care. I wouldn't mind an NHS type system established in the US, but in exchange, I'd like for mandatory health insurance to be done away with.

[Sociobiology]

I used to think that healthcare should be something that the free market provides, but I can understand how a government funded health care system with universal access could be cheaper and more efficient than what the US has currently, especially if the focus is on preventative care. I wouldn't mind an NHS type system established in the US, but in exchange, I'd like for mandatory health insurance to be done away with.

well it wouldn't really be needed with an NHS.

oh and free markets generally suck at healthcare, because a large majority of demand is inflexible, high geographically dependent, and unaffected by supply.

[Regnum Dominae]

Interesting, we discussed this in Spanish II yesterday.

For emergency care, fine.

For cosmetic stuff like plastic surgery, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

[The New Sea Territory]

Absolute Privilege. It started as a private sector invention, and should stay as such.

So did roads.

Thankfully, over time, things change.

Well, things change over time-

The Soviet Union collapsed and the strength of Communism was gone.

Countries that supply healthcare to too many people (anybody) are wasting money that could be spent on USEful stuff.

[Enadail]

So did roads.

Thankfully, over time, things change.

Well, things change over time-

The Soviet Union collapsed and the strength of Communism was gone.

Countries that supply healthcare to too many people (anybody) are wasting money that could be spent on USEful stuff.

There's something more useful then the security and well being of the citizens for a state?

[Neutraligon]

Interesting, we discussed this in Spanish II yesterday.

For emergency care, fine.

For cosmetic stuff like plastic surgery, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

What do you consider plastic surgery? What about people who are in severe accidents who do not want to walk around and have people stare at them. The problem with cosmetic/plastic surgery is that it is not always "trivial".

[Oneracon]

So did roads.

Thankfully, over time, things change.

Well, things change over time-

The Soviet Union collapsed and the strength of Communism was gone.

Countries that supply healthcare to too many people (anybody) are wasting money that could be spent on USEful stuff.

Take a gander at OECD and WHO statistics on health care spending. The US spends the most per capita on health care, about $8000 USD per capita or 17.6% of GDP, out of all developed nations... far more than countries that have universal health care and lower populations (higher costs and lower number of citizens to split the cost).

So please tell me again who's wasting money?

[Kilobugya]

Definitely a right.

First of all for humanitarian reasons, we shouldn't let our brethren die when we can prevent it.

Then, since people aren't responsible of being sick (most of the time), it's only fairness to have society share the cost/consequences. That's a fundamental part of what the whole "civilization" thing is about : shielding individuals from natural risks, be it weather, starvation or sickness.

And finally for efficiency reasons. People work better when in good health, treating diseases early and vaccinating everyone is the most efficient way of preventing/controlling epidemics, and attacking conditions as early as possible means higher rate of survival and less total spending, so people should be encouraged to consult doctors frequently, not discouraged to do so with having to pay when they do.

[Hippostania]

It's a privilege. Claiming that it is a right basically violates other people's right to economic self-determination and their property rights. Until you can come up with a magic healthcare machine that dispenses health without using any money, healthcare is a privilege that everyone are not entitled to.

[Ashmoria]

Absolute Privilege. It started as a private sector invention, and should stay as such.

You are right.

Medicine had to be discovered. People seem to forget that poverty and disease was the norm for all of human history.

That is as ridiculous as saying "I am having my right to a spaceship violated because no one made one yet".

no its more like saying "I am having my rights violated because I live under the overpass and eat out of dumpsters"

[Divair]

It's a right. Thankfully, the majority of countries understand this.

[Dakini]

It's totally a right and it make society better when it is treated that way.

[Samuraikoku]

It's an universal right and a State obligation.

[Fraternity]

It is a right and universal healthcare should be implemented in the USA, if not the whole world

[Gadgetron Corporation]

It's a right. And if it was a privilege, what about babies and the mentally challenged?

[Morganutopia]

For emergency care, ABSOLUTELY NOT

For cosmetic stuff like plastic surgery, .fine.

I will pay in my tax to make the poor look good .
BUT THAY CAN GET A JOB IF THAY GET SICK.

[Songhia]

If I cannot get health-care, I will die. Thus, any obstacle preventing me from getting health-care is a legitimate subject to my self-defense. That means that I will kill to get it. If the alternative is that I will die, can you blame me? Am I simply to die quietly, due to my bad luck? Never!

Question for those who think it is a privilege. If you are hungry - I mean starvation-level hungry, like you know for a fact that if you lay down tonight and sleep without eating, you will die before you wake - and you know that I have food, and you are reasonably sure, for whatever reason, that you can take it from me by force, will you do it? If not, why not?

[Hansoplis]

Currently the United states is the only nation in the modern world that does not have universal healthcare.
The system is highly privatized and people get healthcare when it would be profitable for the provider.
See the Documentary "Sicko" to get an idea of what the U.S. healthcare system is like.
The U.S. system is very similar to China's "pay or die" policy.
We should stop fighting over who pays for it and nstead ask why the F*ck it costs so much

[West Macedonia]

its right man how can u say that some people are working hard but small salaries and cant afford to go at doctor

[Oneracon]

It is a right and universal healthcare should be implemented in the USA, if not the whole world

I had to chuckle when conservative commentators like Glen Beck said they would move out of the US if "Obamacare" passed. Since every other developed nation in the world has a larger welfare state and universal health care system one wonders where they would move to. Zaire, perhaps?