Ethics of standarized test and medication.

[Greed and Death]

*first* I am not advocating/suggesting anyone do anything illegal. Adderall and other ADD medication is an illegal drug when taken improperly can cause serious damage to your heart and risk you life.


That being said on a purely hypothetical level lets say by taking adderall, someone not prescribed adderall, was able to give 5 more points on the LSAT.
Is it moral for them to take the drug and score a higher score and get into a better school ?
Or should they only get into the school their unassisted results help them get?

[SaintB]

I don't think that 5 points on an SAT is going to really big a big help.

[Barringtonia]

Is this the concentration drug, in that it helps you concentrate to some degree?

I wouldn't mind it for use now and again. I can sometimes find it very hard to motivate myself to start a project, it can seem as though anything is more interesting that something I have to actually do.

I'm lucky in that I can go at my own pace at work so it's not too much of a problem but sometimes I find the clock ticking and my brain is just totally uninterested in getting going.

So, for those moments, I'd quite like a jumpstart of sorts - the problem I suspect comes in terms of abuse. For the failings of a few, the many are denied what I suspect would be a useful addition to their lives.

[Greed and Death]

I don't think that 5 points on an SAT is going to really big a big help.

just more curious about the moral ramifications of it. Hanging out with some people taking the test last week and they were all talking about it.

[Soratsin]

If the concentration drug was available to everyone or cheap enough so that any student could afford it then I don't see much of a problem, but more likely it would be expensive, thus allowing better off kids to get better scores on tests simply for having wealthy parents.

[Greed and Death]

If the concentration drug was available to everyone or cheap enough so that any student could afford it then I don't see much of a problem, but more likely it would be expensive, thus allowing better off kids to get better scores on tests simply for having wealthy parents.

When I was in college it was offered for 5 dollars a pill.

I personally will not take it at all. But that has more to do with my family having a history of addiction to stimulants and not wanting to risk being yet another member of the family to be sent to rehab.

[Greed and Death]

I don't think that 5 points on an SAT is going to really big a big help.

The LSAT not the SAT.
SAT is on a 600 to 2400 scale. 1800 total range. 5 points is like scoring .3% better.
the LSAT is on a 120 to 180 scale. 60 total range. 5 points is like scoring 8.3% higher.

[Ryadn]

It's unlikely to help anyone who doesn't have attentional problems. The only way I can see an advantage is if the test was nine hours long and involved intricate, obsessive work.

Adderall doesn't make you smarter, it just makes you focused. If your standardized test scores significantly improve with its use, you probably need it.

[Tubbsalot]

It defeats the whole purpose of the tests, and subverts the schooling system. It is certainly not moral, unless you're one of the crazies who think selfishness is a virtue.

That said, I'd probably take it.

[Sdaeriji]

This feels like a transfer of the "is taking steroids cheating" question from an athletic arena to an academic one. It is hard to see how gaining an unfair competitive advantage in any sort of arena is ethical.

[Parthenon]

Most schools don't like to see applicants take the LSAT more than one time without a valid excuse. If an applicant is only taking the test once I don't see how you would be able to measure any benefit from drug usage...

[Ryadn]

If the concentration drug was available to everyone or cheap enough so that any student could afford it then I don't see much of a problem, but more likely it would be expensive, thus allowing better off kids to get better scores on tests simply for having wealthy parents.

When I was in college it was offered for 5 dollars a pill.

I personally will not take it at all. But that has more to do with my family having a history of addiction to stimulants and not wanting to risk being yet another member of the family to be sent to rehab.

Man. If it wasn't illegal, I'd totally supplement my income by selling my adderall. It's only $5 a bottle.

[RightLeaningChristians]

Bullshit.


Last time someone gave me a pill to take that he said was Adderall (I call bullshit on this), I lied in his bed shaking and twitching so bad I couldn't even fap.





If it works for you though, go for it.

[Barringtonia]

It defeats the whole purpose of the tests, and subverts the schooling system. It is certainly not moral, unless you're one of the crazies who think selfishness is a virtue.

This would imply that everyone is of equal ability in regards to application and intelligence and that the difference is solely the choice in terms of the amount of work one might put into study.

Grades can have a large effect on one's life and I've seen plenty of very intelligent people who, for one reason or another, found learning according to the syllabus and teaching method very difficult.

Personally, I find the value of education rests mostly in 'following a prescribed system', though that's a reflection on society as a whole.

The ability to concentrate varies widely, I'm not sure medication that resolves it when faced with a particular task by which you'll likely be judged for life is so immoral.

[Parthenon]

Bullshit.


Last time someone gave me a pill to take that he said was Adderall (I call bullshit on this), I lied in his bed shaking and twitching so bad I couldn't even fap.





If it works for you though, go for it.

If you don't have ADD/ADHD it operates in a similar capacity to speed...

[Ryadn]

This feels like a transfer of the "is taking steroids cheating" question from an athletic arena to an academic one. It is hard to see how gaining an unfair competitive advantage in any sort of arena is ethical.

If it made you smarter or more knowledgeable, I'd agree. But it only makes you more focused. Most people probably won't show much of a difference. For those that do, they probably should have had it prescribed.

[Ryadn]

Bullshit.


Last time someone gave me a pill to take that he said was Adderall (I call bullshit on this), I lied in his bed shaking and twitching so bad I couldn't even fap.





If it works for you though, go for it.

Depending on the dosage, that sounds pretty normal. If I go off of my medication for more than a week, I get a pretty huge rush the first few times I take it again. After a few days you adjust and stop getting high.

[Soyut]

It's unlikely to help anyone who doesn't have attentional problems. The only way I can see an advantage is if the test was nine hours long and involved intricate, obsessive work.

Adderall doesn't make you smarter, it just makes you focused. If your standardized test scores significantly improve with its use, you probably need it.

Actually, people without ADD do score higher on tests when they take Adderall. We had a discussion about this in psychology class.

[RightLeaningChristians]

Bullshit.


Last time someone gave me a pill to take that he said was Adderall (I call bullshit on this), I lied in his bed shaking and twitching so bad I couldn't even fap.





If it works for you though, go for it.

If you don't have ADD/ADHD it operates in a similar capacity to speed...

Interesting.

The night was pretty epic, so it doesn't matter I guess.



Using steroids sucks, but if someone wants to, I won't stop them. I will laugh at them when their sports career goes down the shitter when they are found out.

[Barringtonia]

This feels like a transfer of the "is taking steroids cheating" question from an athletic arena to an academic one. It is hard to see how gaining an unfair competitive advantage in any sort of arena is ethical.

If it made you smarter or more knowledgeable, I'd agree. But it only makes you more focused. Most people probably won't show much of a difference. For those that do, they probably should have had it prescribed.

Indeed, if one could run extremely fast yet had a balance problem that caused one to continuously veer to the left, would a drug that resolved that issue be considered cheating?

[Tubbsalot]

This would imply that everyone is of equal ability in regards to application and intelligence and that the difference is solely the choice in terms of the amount of work one might put into study.

Grades can have a large effect on one's life and I've seen plenty of very intelligent people who, for one reason or another, found learning according to the syllabus and teaching method very difficult.

Personally, I find the value of education rests mostly in 'following a prescribed system', though that's a reflection on society as a whole.

The ability to concentrate varies widely, I'm not sure medication that resolves it when faced with a particular task by which you'll likely be judged for life is so immoral.

These are good points. For the record, I was operating off the assumption that these are magic intellipills, the equivalent of steroids for the mind. For concentration alone, my thoughts aren't so clear-cut. I suppose it's acceptable, but I'd be worried that people would overdose on it before tests, resulting in even worse scores (or death).

[Ryadn]

Bullshit.


Last time someone gave me a pill to take that he said was Adderall (I call bullshit on this), I lied in his bed shaking and twitching so bad I couldn't even fap.





If it works for you though, go for it.

If you don't have ADD/ADHD it operates in a similar capacity to speed...

It actually operates in a similar capacity even if you DO have ADD. It's just that those of us with ADD have below-normal activity in certain areas of the brain, particularly ones that control concentration and time management, so adderall and other stimulants bring us up to baseline. For people with normal activity, stimulants make you hyperfocused, borderline obsessive.

[Ryadn]

It's unlikely to help anyone who doesn't have attentional problems. The only way I can see an advantage is if the test was nine hours long and involved intricate, obsessive work.

Adderall doesn't make you smarter, it just makes you focused. If your standardized test scores significantly improve with its use, you probably need it.

Actually, people without ADD do score higher on tests when they take Adderall. We had a discussion about this in psychology class.

How much higher, and how is it determined that they don't have ADD?

[Sdaeriji]

This feels like a transfer of the "is taking steroids cheating" question from an athletic arena to an academic one. It is hard to see how gaining an unfair competitive advantage in any sort of arena is ethical.

If it made you smarter or more knowledgeable, I'd agree. But it only makes you more focused. Most people probably won't show much of a difference. For those that do, they probably should have had it prescribed.

I don't see the difference. If you are diagnosed and it is determined you do NOT need it, and you take it anyway for the purposes of being more focused for a test, how is that not a performance-enhancement? You can hardly argue that being more focused for a test than everyone else due to a drug is not an advantage. Does it matter if the improvement is only marginal? It is still a competitive advantage.

[Ryadn]

This would imply that everyone is of equal ability in regards to application and intelligence and that the difference is solely the choice in terms of the amount of work one might put into study.

Grades can have a large effect on one's life and I've seen plenty of very intelligent people who, for one reason or another, found learning according to the syllabus and teaching method very difficult.

Personally, I find the value of education rests mostly in 'following a prescribed system', though that's a reflection on society as a whole.

The ability to concentrate varies widely, I'm not sure medication that resolves it when faced with a particular task by which you'll likely be judged for life is so immoral.

These are good points. For the record, I was operating off the assumption that these are magic intellipills, the equivalent of steroids for the mind. For concentration alone, my thoughts aren't so clear-cut. I suppose it's acceptable, but I'd be worried that people would overdose on it before tests, resulting in even worse scores (or death).

Very astute concern. One effect of adderall that recreational users often report is a feeling that they are incredibly intelligent, eloquent and creative while on the high---only to discover once they crash that they were babbling about nonsense. People with ADD generally have difficulty tuning out background noise---every stimulus is given equal attention, and it's hard to sort out the important things. But you can become SO narrowly focused that it has almost the same effect. For instance, someone on too high a dose could spend the entirety of the test writing and rewriting a single essay response, trying to make it absolutely perfect, and fail to complete the rest of the test.