Same-Sex Marriage: Point of View

[Liriena]

The Bible is wrong about a lot of things, discrimination based upon Biblical understandings or misunderstandings is also wrong.

So what about the beastiality and pedophilia? Are you saying they're normal too?

Faulty and irrelevant analogy.
Zoophilia and pedophilia don't involve two human adults.
Zoophilia and pedophilia are sexual fixations, not sexual orientations.

[Essos]

The Bible is wrong about a lot of things, discrimination based upon Biblical understandings or misunderstandings is also wrong.

So what about the beastiality and pedophilia? Are you saying they're normal too?

Ah, the old beastiality and pedophilia defense. Brilliant ploy which no one here has ever seen before.

Oh, wait. Yes we have. The long and short of it is that they are normal, for versions of normal. In that they are biologically programmed to have those desires. Now, the problem here is that pedophiles, unlike homosexuals, de facto and de jure commit rape whenever they engage in sexual activity with their chosen demographic. Children are not able to give consent to sexual activity. Two male adults are able to do so, and as such no crime is committed.

Do not confuse the facts here, any mroe than you have already.

[Transhuman Proteus]

The Bible is wrong about a lot of things, discrimination based upon Biblical understandings or misunderstandings is also wrong.

So what about the beastiality and pedophilia? Are you saying they're normal too?

And how are you connecting them to homosexuality?

[Liriena]

Are you Christian? If so, please quote to me chapter and verse where Jesus says that it homosexuals are Bad People(TM).

Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death." 1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals" 1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers" Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

You just proved Essos right. None of those passages are things that Jesus himself said.
In fact, our resident Jew, Menassa, can compellingly explain to you why both verses from the Book of Leviticus don't apply to Christians, let alone any other non-Jewish sector of society.
And I myself can, and may, if compelled to do so, explain, in my typical condescending and pedantic fashion, why 1 Tim 1:9-10, Rom 1:26-27 and 1 Cor 6:9 don't actually ban homosexuality in general as we know it today...and they are also legally irrelevant in the eyes of American law.

Then again...you have proven yourself to be rather obtuse, so I don't know if it's worth the effort.

[Heltonia]

Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death." 1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals" 1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers" Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

You just proved Essos right. None of those passages are things that Jesus himself said.
In fact, our resident Jew, Menassa, can compellingly explain to you why both verses from the Book of Leviticus don't apply to Christians, let alone any other non-Jewish sector of society.
And I myself can, and may, if compelled to do so, explain, in my typical condescending and pedantic fashion, why 1 Tim 1:9-10, Rom 1:26-27 and 1 Cor 6:9 don't actually ban homosexuality in general as we know it today...and they are also legally irrelevant in the eyes of American law.

Then again...you have proven yourself to be rather obtuse, so I don't know if it's worth the effort.

Ignore Liriena. Shes been trolling me since the Rape thread.

[Heltonia]

So what about the beastiality and pedophilia? Are you saying they're normal too?

Ah, the old beastiality and pedophilia defense. Brilliant ploy which no one here has ever seen before.

Oh, wait. Yes we have. The long and short of it is that they are normal, for versions of normal. In that they are biologically programmed to have those desires. Now, the problem here is that pedophiles, unlike homosexuals, de facto and de jure commit rape whenever they engage in sexual activity with their chosen demographic. Children are not able to give consent to sexual activity. Two male adults are able to do so, and as such no crime is committed.

Do not confuse the facts here, any mroe than you have already.

so people are biologically programmed to be sexually attracted to animals and children the same way they are programmed to be sexually attracted to the same sex? Arent you contradicting yourself?

[Transhuman Proteus]

You just proved Essos right. None of those passages are things that Jesus himself said.
In fact, our resident Jew, Menassa, can compellingly explain to you why both verses from the Book of Leviticus don't apply to Christians, let alone any other non-Jewish sector of society.
And I myself can, and may, if compelled to do so, explain, in my typical condescending and pedantic fashion, why 1 Tim 1:9-10, Rom 1:26-27 and 1 Cor 6:9 don't actually ban homosexuality in general as we know it today...and they are also legally irrelevant in the eyes of American law.

Then again...you have proven yourself to be rather obtuse, so I don't know if it's worth the effort.

Ignore Liriena. Shes been trolling me since the Rape thread.

First - nothing troll like there.
Second - is she incorrect?
Third - if she is incorrect can you explain how?

[Hathradic States]

Government should just stay out of marriage. This works both ways. For one, it means same-sex marriage can happen. For two, if a pastor wasn't want to do any gay marriages, then he doesn't have. Everybody's rights are good, and no one should bitch.

Except, of course, they would. Because humans bitch. A lot.

[Liriena]

You just proved Essos right. None of those passages are things that Jesus himself said.
In fact, our resident Jew, Menassa, can compellingly explain to you why both verses from the Book of Leviticus don't apply to Christians, let alone any other non-Jewish sector of society.
And I myself can, and may, if compelled to do so, explain, in my typical condescending and pedantic fashion, why 1 Tim 1:9-10, Rom 1:26-27 and 1 Cor 6:9 don't actually ban homosexuality in general as we know it today...and they are also legally irrelevant in the eyes of American law.

Then again...you have proven yourself to be rather obtuse, so I don't know if it's worth the effort.

Ignore Liriena. Shes been trolling me since the Rape thread.

Yeah, see...calling anyone a "troll" without any actual basis is a dangerous thing to do in NSG.
And you really can't pull such smear tactics on me, of all people, because, unlike you, I have been here for a long time, and a certain number of people here know me well enough to distrust such slander.

Now, will you address my actual post, rather than my character? And don't try to pull a tu quoque on me. I might have attacked your character, but my ad hominems against you were hardly the meat of my arguments.

[Heltonia]

Ignore Liriena. Shes been trolling me since the Rape thread.

First - nothing troll like there.
Second - is she incorrect?
Third - if she is incorrect can you explain how?

Bible is word of God. God is infallible. You can argue semantics all you want, but the word is The Word.

[Essos]

Are you Christian? If so, please quote to me chapter and verse where Jesus says that it homosexuals are Bad People(TM).

Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death." 1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals" 1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers" Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

So... Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus, son of God and the guy the religion was named after, say anything on the subject of homosexuals. Cool. Good to know.

Now, we have a bit from the Old Testament that looks pretty solid against it, but unless you suffer not witches to live, and follow all the other rather nitpicky and complex laws in that particular book, you're not winning yourself any points.

For the rest, I believe most of those statements are the opinions(and they were his personal opinions) of Paul, not a divine entity. Opinions are like assholes, even people in the Bible had them, and no one else wants to hear about them.

[Heltonia]

Ignore Liriena. Shes been trolling me since the Rape thread.

Yeah, see...calling anyone a "troll" without any actual basis is a dangerous thing to do in NSG.
And you really can't pull such smear tactics on me, of all people, because, unlike you, I have been here for a long time, and a certain number of people here know me well enough to distrust such slander.

Now, will you address my actual post, rather than my character? And don't try to pull a tu quoque on me. I might have attacked your character, but my ad hominems against you were hardly the meat of my arguments.

go to bed kid.

[Liriena]

Ah, the old beastiality and pedophilia defense. Brilliant ploy which no one here has ever seen before.

Oh, wait. Yes we have. The long and short of it is that they are normal, for versions of normal. In that they are biologically programmed to have those desires. Now, the problem here is that pedophiles, unlike homosexuals, de facto and de jure commit rape whenever they engage in sexual activity with their chosen demographic. Children are not able to give consent to sexual activity. Two male adults are able to do so, and as such no crime is committed.

Do not confuse the facts here, any mroe than you have already.

so people are biologically programmed to be sexually attracted to animals and children the same way they are programmed to be sexually attracted to the same sex? Arent you contradicting yourself?

You really don't get it, do you?
They are not programmed the same way. A paraphilia, like pedophilia, is not even remotely the same, on neurological terms, as a sexual orientation, like homosexuality. Their origins and nature are different.
And child molestation involves committing a crime against a minor.
Homosexual intercourse, in principle does NOT.

Homosexuality is not a crime. Pedophilia is a crime.

[Liriena]

Government should just stay out of marriage. This works both ways. For one, it means same-sex marriage can happen. For two, if a pastor wasn't want to do any gay marriages, then he doesn't have. Everybody's rights are good, and no one should bitch.

Except, of course, they would. Because humans bitch. A lot.

Nobody is asking for pastors to forcefully marry gay couples. We are asking the state to provide civil marriage, not religious marriage, to same-sex couples.

Gosh...

[Transhuman Proteus]

First - nothing troll like there.
Second - is she incorrect?
Third - if she is incorrect can you explain how?

Bible is word of God. God is infallible. You can argue semantics all you want, but the word is The Word.

So -

First - you're not saying what she said is wrong.
Second - you're not proving what she said is wrong.

Jesus said nothing about homosexuals or how one should feel about them (he certainly never delved into incorrect psychology or science as you did). The section you quoted doesn't apply to all people, or even Christians for that matter. The section you quoted says nothing in regards to anything of any psychological or scientific relevance.

So you remain wrong in pretty much everything you have said.

[Heltonia]

so people are biologically programmed to be sexually attracted to animals and children the same way they are programmed to be sexually attracted to the same sex? Arent you contradicting yourself?

You really don't get it, do you?
They are not programmed the same way. A paraphilia, like pedophilia, is not even remotely the same, on neurological terms, as a sexual orientation, like homosexuality. Their origins and nature are different.
And child molestation involves committing a crime against a minor.
Homosexual intercourse, in principle does NOT.

Homosexuality is not a crime. Pedophilia is a crime.

pedophilia is a philia. Child molestation is a crime. Get your facts straight.

[Liriena]

First - nothing troll like there.
Second - is she incorrect?
Third - if she is incorrect can you explain how?

Bible is word of God. God is infallible. You can argue semantics all you want, but the word is The Word.

The Vedas are the words of Brahma. Brahma is infallible. You can argue semantics all you want, but the word is The Word.

Time to install a Hindu theocracy, I guess.

Protip: the Bible is not a valid scientific, historical or legal source. It's not even good literature.

[Hathradic States]

Government should just stay out of marriage. This works both ways. For one, it means same-sex marriage can happen. For two, if a pastor wasn't want to do any gay marriages, then he doesn't have. Everybody's rights are good, and no one should bitch.

Except, of course, they would. Because humans bitch. A lot.

Nobody is asking for pastors to forcefully marry gay couples. We are asking the state to provide civil marriage, not religious marriage, to same-sex couples.

Gosh...

I never said anybody was. I just stated the simplest solution, with an comical addition of how people would still bitch, because, let's be honest here, it's what humans do best.

[Heltonia]

Bible is word of God. God is infallible. You can argue semantics all you want, but the word is The Word.

So -

First - you're not saying what she said is wrong.
Second - you're not proving what she said is wrong.

Jesus said nothing about homosexuals or how one should feel about them (he certainly never delved into incorrect psychology or science as you did). The section you quoted doesn't apply to all people, or even Christians for that matter. The section you quoted says nothing in regards to anything of any psychological or scientific relevance.

So you remain wrong in pretty much everything you have said.

so what you're saying is God's word is wrong?

[Liriena]

Yeah, see...calling anyone a "troll" without any actual basis is a dangerous thing to do in NSG.
And you really can't pull such smear tactics on me, of all people, because, unlike you, I have been here for a long time, and a certain number of people here know me well enough to distrust such slander.

Now, will you address my actual post, rather than my character? And don't try to pull a tu quoque on me. I might have attacked your character, but my ad hominems against you were hardly the meat of my arguments.

go to bed kid.

As soon as you actually start being intellectually honest.

[Essos]

First - nothing troll like there.
Second - is she incorrect?
Third - if she is incorrect can you explain how?

Bible is word of God. God is infallible. You can argue semantics all you want, but the word is The Word.

Is that so. Who was it that wrote Paul's Letter to the Romans? Was that written by God, or Paul? How about those other letters, to those other churches, were those written by God, or Paul? How about the book of Timothy, was that written by Timothy, or by God?

Well, the correct answer is none of them were written by either of the possibilities given, but by scribes a few centuries later. That however, is neither here nor there, since the full names of the books reveal the author of each book, if you pay close enough attention.

[Heltonia]

go to bed kid.

As soon as you actually start being intellectually honest.

Go to bed.

[Liriena]

You really don't get it, do you?
They are not programmed the same way. A paraphilia, like pedophilia, is not even remotely the same, on neurological terms, as a sexual orientation, like homosexuality. Their origins and nature are different.
And child molestation involves committing a crime against a minor.
Homosexual intercourse, in principle does NOT.

Homosexuality is not a crime. Pedophilia is a crime.

pedophilia is a philia. Child molestation is a crime. Get your facts straight.

Well, thanks for proving yourself to be openly dishonest, buddy.
Pedophilia is a paraphilia. Look it up.
Child molestation is a crime. I never claimed otherwise.
Don't tell me to get my facts straight when nothing you've said so far have been even remotely close to factual.

[Liriena]

So -

First - you're not saying what she said is wrong.
Second - you're not proving what she said is wrong.

Jesus said nothing about homosexuals or how one should feel about them (he certainly never delved into incorrect psychology or science as you did). The section you quoted doesn't apply to all people, or even Christians for that matter. The section you quoted says nothing in regards to anything of any psychological or scientific relevance.

So you remain wrong in pretty much everything you have said.

so what you're saying is God's word is wrong?

No. He's saying that you yourself have been lying, unwittingly perhaps, about God's word.

[Fnordgasm 5]

Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death." 1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals" 1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers" Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

You know, I was thinking about getting married but who wants to go though all that trouble of meeting girls and dating right? Do you suggest I go down the biblical route of raping a girl and then paying off her father so that she is forced to marry me?