Your transition from liberalism to conservatism

[Meryuma]

Well, I also believe in God. Now, if God is all-knowing then he will know what happens in the future, right? Therefore, after he made the Big Bang (yes, I'm that type of Christian), he let evolution take its course knowing that Elizabeth would end up as Queen. I believe that the fact that God knew what would happen from the start, and did nothing to change it, means that he has given his seal of approval to the monarchy.

By that logic, God approved of the holocaust.

ninja'd you

[Machtergreifung]

Then God is responsible for all the exceptionally bad monarchs that made everyday life pretty crap? Queen Mary, who enjoyed burning non-Catholics at the stake? King John of England, famed for taxing everyone into dirt? What about Charles the Second of Spain, did God decide that a inbred simpleton should rule a great empire? Did God aprove all of that?

God does everything for a reason, and I'm sure that all those who did suffer at the hands of such people went to Heaven.

So, what is the reasoning behind natural disasters? Or, seeing as you hold creationist views, the reasoning behind God creating diseases? What are his reasons for making people suffer?

Also, how exactly are you sure they would go to heaven? Assuming you proscribe to common Christian theology, don't they have to belive in God first?

[Grenartia]

I went from conservative to liberal. Mainly because personal experiences and reality showed me that conservativism doesn't solve problems, it makes them worse.

[Ayreonia]

Then God is responsible for all the exceptionally bad monarchs that made everyday life pretty crap? Queen Mary, who enjoyed burning non-Catholics at the stake? King John of England, famed for taxing everyone into dirt? What about Charles the Second of Spain, did God decide that a inbred simpleton should rule a great empire? Did God aprove all of that?

God does everything for a reason, and I'm sure that all those who did suffer at the hands of such people went to Heaven.

By your logic, the downfall of monarchies was God's doing. Why support something he has condemned?

Monarchy doesn't mean strong leaders. I'd dare say the opposite is more common.

[Wikkiwallana]

Hurricane Katrina: I saw how many poor people acted like wild animals instead of being good neighbors. This made me realize many urban poor don't know how to be civilized and are less deserving of govt. help (I would rather help out nice people than mean people).

Then, I went to college in Indiana as a business major. Accounting teacher made good points regarding minimum wage and price of gas (price is fair because people still buy it).

Then, co-worker (anarchist) made very great points regarding why government is wrong.

Also, Obama resigned the Patriot Act, increased national debt (despite criticizing Bush for wasteful spending), kept us in Iraq longer than needed (as well as Afghanistan) which made me realize democrats are also anti-freedom.

Reading Atlas Shrugged (and checking out ayn rand institute website) also helped.

Libertarians Unite!

Who is John Galt?

A massive prick.

[Grenartia]

Libertarians Unite!

Who is John Galt?

A massive prick.

More accurately, the asshole author avatar of a hypocritical, equally assholish bitch who claimed that altruism was a mental illness.

[Trotskylvania]

I would disagree with that. But that's for another thread. Many Republicans are just religious neo-libs though. Very few of them are true capitalists.

Oh god.

I fucking blame Bioshock. Although, frankly, I don't think ANYBODY could have predicted the hordes of teenage boys who looked at Rapture and went "got to get me some of that'

Weren't we not supposed to like Rapture anyway?

[Ayreonia]

Oh god.

I fucking blame Bioshock. Although, frankly, I don't think ANYBODY could have predicted the hordes of teenage boys who looked at Rapture and went "got to get me some of that'

Weren't we not supposed to like Rapture anyway?

Pretty much, yeah. My impression, at least, was like "hell, this would be a pretty shitty place to live."

[Freiheit Reich]

So you would be OK if a drone attacked your home for sending an anti-government message on the internet (to include a message that reads as simply 'Obama sucks, he made a bad decision about Blah Blah Blah issue')?

I must have missed the part of your laws that give the government the power to kill you with a drone, or a CIA agent or a sniper for sending an email that says "Obama sucks"

Sorry, I mean Ayn Rand Institute website. My mistake. The link below has articles by educated professionals to include economists. Be prepared to be enlightened:

Aynrand.org

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand_Institute

Haven't been there of late, do they talk about how by the last years of her life she had failed to realize any of the things she advocated, and was "sucking away at the government teat" like the people who are despised by the current Rand worshipers?

Drones: not yet but a slippery slope, drones allowed to kill Americans in Yemen today (Americans that only asked other people to kill but did not kill anybody themselves-just like Charles Manson only a religiously devout man). Tomorrow, drones will be allowed to kill civil disobedient types (an anti-leader message will be considered an act of inciting a govt. takeover and an act of terrorism).

Ayn Rand: She was getting her money back, she paid into the system and just got her money back. She was following 'the virtue of selfishness' in this way. If she turned down the money and let the govt. waste it this would violate her rules.

I was against the Iraq War but still worked there and profitted off it, similar situation. We must look out for our interests as long as it does not hurt those we care about.

Ayn Rand Institute discusses modern news stories and how the govt. is hurting us with new or present legislation. Give it a try, you will be enlightened.

[Jamzmania]

Always been an American conservative myself, though I've hardened my beliefs. I believe the big reasons a lot of young people are liberal are

A) Teachers and professors tend to be liberal, passing that on to students.

B) Young people want free stuff (AKA welfare).

[Ayreonia]

Always been an American conservative myself, though I've hardened my beliefs. I believe the big reasons a lot of young people are liberal are

A) Teachers and professors tend to be liberal, passing that on to students.

B) Young people want free stuff (AKA welfare).

Must be a fucked-up place where you are from. If anything, young people want solid, respected, well-paid jobs. They don't want "free stuff". Plus welfare is pretty fucking far away from "free stuff".

Hell, I'm from Finland, the stereotypical Scandinavian liberal welfare paradise. Like any good Finn, I did my time in the Army, joining half a year after graduating from high school. Now there's this really nifty welfare, or as you call it, "free stuff" system in place: in order to get unemployment benefits, you have had to work at least six months during the past two years. Now I did not get that much before my time in the military, and after getting discharged, I went to my local "free stuff" office to ask if I'd get any subsidies before finding a job after my service. Answer was nah, you don't get shit, because it has to bee six months of work, and apparently serving in the military as a conscripted soldier does not count as work. I, being a free stuff-wanting youth, decided to fuck the system and got a job that wasn't very good, but was better than living off welfare, AKA free stuff.

I'd suggest toning that down. Someone might get offended.

[Calenhardon]

Always been an American conservative myself, though I've hardened my beliefs. I believe the big reasons a lot of young people are liberal are

A) Teachers and professors tend to be liberal, passing that on to students.

B) Young people want free stuff (AKA welfare).

B) is absolutely correct. I was just on my way to join an AYRP march demanding no cuts to our social security and medicare.

Lolno. Sorry, but the vast majority of entitlement spending goes to the elderly. Interestingly, a largely republican demographic group.

[Napkiraly]

I've moved from the centre-right to to the left (border between left and centre-left really) as I've gotten older. :/ Does this make me a mutant?

[Free Soviets]

I've moved from the centre-right to to the left (border between left and centre-left really) as I've gotten older. :/ Does this make me a mutant?

no, normal. in america, at least, people have been getting more leftish as they age for the last century. just not quite keeping up with the progressiveness of younger folks, so they are always seeming pretty rightwing. but when our old people were young, they used to overwhelmingly believe that interracial marriage was an abomination. they've been getting better.

[The Black Forrest]

How about a conservative who became a liberal?

Was actually heading for the Priesthood at one time

[Cosara]

I drifted from the Center-Right to the Right.

[Grave_n_idle]

Always been an American conservative myself, though I've hardened my beliefs. I believe the big reasons a lot of young people are liberal are

A) Teachers and professors tend to be liberal, passing that on to students.

B) Young people want free stuff (AKA welfare).

It's no surprise that teachers and professors might tend towards liberal politics (if that's even true) - given the anti-intellectual agenda of the political right.

For example, I was listening to Herman Cain's radio show today and there was a caller bitching about how his wife can't find employment as a teacher (he blames protectionism)... and he then explained how teachers are really just babysitters. My first thought (after 'wow, bet she's glad she married someone who makes her feel so validated) was that it's horrifying how little value rightwing voters attach to the position of 'educator'.

If teachers tend towards the left - if they do - it's no surprise.

[Grenartia]

Always been an American conservative myself, though I've hardened my beliefs. I believe the big reasons a lot of young people are liberal are

A) Teachers and professors tend to be liberal, passing that on to students.

B) Young people want free stuff (AKA welfare).

OR, people's life experiences teach them that conservatism causes more problems in society than it creates, and that the working poor shouldn't starve, and they've realized that the 'lazy welfare bum' stereotype is a myth.

[Free Detroit]

I've moved from the centre-right to to the left (border between left and centre-left really) as I've gotten older. :/ Does this make me a mutant?

no, normal. in america, at least, people have been getting more leftish as they age for the last century. just not quite keeping up with the progressiveness of younger folks, so they are always seeming pretty rightwing. but when our old people were young, they used to overwhelmingly believe that interracial marriage was an abomination. they've been getting better.

Er, no. I don' know your age, but if you grew up post-Cold War, I suspect this is a common misconception. American have shifted dramatically to the right since the late 1970s, even amongst the younger generations. There was a large wave of left-leaning politics that came in the 60s and 70s, but that was partly coopted and partly suppressed by the right. The only real permanent gains for the left were in the areas of race and sex equality - but those were concessions given so that we could start moving non-Whites and women to the right (I shudder to think of what the civil rights leaders of the 60s would say about the right-wing politics of our "black" president).

Since the mid-1990s, there has been a waffling of this rightward shift in American politics - it appears to be reaching some sort of temporary stasis - so that might appear as "moving left" to younger folks...

[Hitlerobamanation]

A massive prick.

More accurately, the asshole author avatar of a hypocritical, equally assholish bitch who claimed that altruism was a mental illness.

Care to elaborate a little, also what kind of conservative were you, out of curiousity.

[Free Soviets]

no, normal. in america, at least, people have been getting more leftish as they age for the last century. just not quite keeping up with the progressiveness of younger folks, so they are always seeming pretty rightwing. but when our old people were young, they used to overwhelmingly believe that interracial marriage was an abomination. they've been getting better.

Er, no. I don' know your age, but if you grew up post-Cold War, I suspect this is a common misconception. American have shifted dramatically to the right since the late 1970s, even amongst the younger generations. There was a large wave of left-leaning politics that came in the 60s and 70s, but that was partly coopted and partly suppressed by the right. The only real permanent gains for the left were in the areas of race and sex equality - but those were concessions given so that we could start moving non-Whites and women to the right (I shudder to think of what the civil rights leaders of the 60s would say about the right-wing politics of our "black" president).

Since the mid-1990s, there has been a waffling of this rightward shift in American politics - it appears to be reaching some sort of temporary stasis - so that might appear as "moving left" to younger folks...

nah. the thing to remember is that the hippies of the 60s and 70s were a tiny minority of their generation. boomers were always conservatives.

[Free Detroit]

nah. the thing to remember is that the hippies of the 60s and 70s were a tiny minority of their generation. boomers were always conservatives.

I suspect it's a definition thing. If we're talking economics, Americans have made a wild right-turn for the past 30 years, this includes the boomers. It's really the post-boomer generation that made greed fashionable. If we're talking about the hot-button social issues that tend to act as superficial divides between our two right-wing parties... sure, we're more liberal.

[Hitlerobamanation]

nah. the thing to remember is that the hippies of the 60s and 70s were a tiny minority of their generation. boomers were always conservatives.

I suspect it's a definition thing. If we're talking economics, Americans have made a wild right-turn for the past 30 years, this includes the boomers. It's really the post-boomer generation that made greed fashionable. If we're talking about the hot-button social issues that tend to act as superficial divides between our two right-wing parties... sure, we're more liberal.

It's not about greed, and there is nothing wrong checked greed, but it is wrong that as someone who definitely leans right economically, that both mainstream parties are further right than I am. I think that the pressing issue is the military spending, we could afford all these things (that we need) if we cut down dramatically on the insane military spending, and both parties are pretty guilty of this. It's not about greed, its about getting our priorities straight. The freer the market the better the economy TO A POINT.

[Grenartia]

More accurately, the asshole author avatar of a hypocritical, equally assholish bitch who claimed that altruism was a mental illness.

Care to elaborate a little, also what kind of conservative were you, out of curiousity.

Ayn Rand, the author of Atlas Shrugged (of which John Galt is a character), is well known to have said that altruism is a mental illness, that selfishness is a good thing, among other things. She also implicitly (if not explicitly) said that government assistance programs are a bad idea, but when she died, she was getting a check from Uncle Sam.

When I was a conservative, I was a social conservative. Extremely so. Anti-LGBT equality, anti-abortion (to the point of feeling that women who got them should've been tried for murder, with possibility of capital punishment), etc.

[Hitlerobamanation]

Care to elaborate a little, also what kind of conservative were you, out of curiousity.

Ayn Rand, the author of Atlas Shrugged (of which John Galt is a character), is well known to have said that altruism is a mental illness, that selfishness is a good thing, among other things. She also implicitly (if not explicitly) said that government assistance programs are a bad idea, but when she died, she was getting a check from Uncle Sam.

When I was a conservative, I was a social conservative. Extremely so. Anti-LGBT equality, anti-abortion (to the point of feeling that women who got them should've been tried for murder, with possibility of capital punishment), etc.

As a conservative Ayn Rand had a point, but she took it a little far, that doesn't mean conservative economic principles are all shit though.

What informed your transition socially, if I may ask? I really dislike the narrow minded moral values of social conservatives, perhaps they have a point but it is heavily informed by personal bias which causes them to miss how they are wrong when one looks at the bigger picture.