Conservative Discussion Thread.

[Old Tyrannia]

This^

you must put that you are the founder of the Party in your sig!!!

How about we stop derailing this thread?

Well, we are discussing conservatism, and this is the conservative discussion thread...

[Regnum Dominae]

Free bump.

[Trotskylvania]

Social liberalism has always been a part of the liberal tradition though. You can't divorce it from the liberal tradition, because there have always been many liberal intellectuals, going back to the start of the enlightenment, who believed in the necessity of welfarism to prevent the entrenchment of elite interests, or on utilitarian grounds. Thomas Paine and John Stuart Mill are just as much classic liberals, and just as important to the tradition, as John Locke is.

Interesting, John Stuart Mill defined Social Liberty as ' "the nature and limits of the power which can be legitimately exercised by society over the individual." So we still see, present, the enlightenment concept of popular sovereignty, people choose the limits of social freedom that they impose on each other, through the legal process and through societal prejudice. In 'On Liberty' Mill argues that the way to achieve social liberty, is to use constitutional checks and by passing of political liberties, which he hoped would expand civil rights and it is here that we find Mill's social liberalism, Mill defined liberty as the ability to do as one wants without harming others.

Interestingly, Mill coins the term Tyranny of the Majority which is formed when 'society issues the wrong mandates' (wrong according to his principal of harm) in which society decides to oppress a certain demographic by populer mandate.

Anyway I like John Stuart Mill and his contribution to liberal theory and social feminism and I broadly agree with his conception of liberty, however since I have only read 'On Liberty' and 'On the Subjection of Women' please enlighten me as to were he advocates a strong welfare state, I assumed he would be in favour of a free market unless having a utilitarian reason not to (abusive employers etc)?

John Stuart Mill was also a socialist of the Owenite school. Mill detailed his changed opinion in later editions of Principles of Political Economy as well as On Social Freedom.

[Diopolis]

Do you consider fascism a form of conservatism? I do not because it has elements in common with both the left and the right, but I want to know what you think.

[Old Tyrannia]

Do you consider fascism a form of conservatism? I do not because it has elements in common with both the left and the right, but I want to know what you think.

No. Fascism is an inherently revolutionary, and therefore anti-conservative, ideology.

[Zweite Alaje]

Do you consider fascism a form of conservatism? I do not because it has elements in common with both the left and the right, but I want to know what you think.

No, Fascism is revolutionary, like Tyrannia said. It is traditionalist, but not conservative in the sense that it aims to reform society base on a percieved cultural essence of the host nation.

For example, for Italy this esence was the Roman spirit, for the quasi-fascist Japanese Empire it was the Bushido code and Shinto.

[Irredento]

Do you consider fascism a form of conservatism? I do not because it has elements in common with both the left and the right, but I want to know what you think.

Fascism is a populist ideology that merely uses grand images of the past to bring the people under its spell but is in fact anti-traditional in practice.

Just like Julius Evola, I feel it is important for all radical traditionalists and conservatives to look at and evaluate fascism from the right rather than the left.

[Disserbia]

Do you consider fascism a form of conservatism? I do not because it has elements in common with both the left and the right, but I want to know what you think.

Fascism is authoritarian conservatism.

[Diopolis]

Do you consider fascism a form of conservatism? I do not because it has elements in common with both the left and the right, but I want to know what you think.

Fascism is authoritarian conservatism.

No it isn't. Fascism is totalitarian, which is not authoritarian. It is also not conservative as much as jingoistic.

[Caninope]

Do you consider fascism a form of conservatism? I do not because it has elements in common with both the left and the right, but I want to know what you think.

Fascism is authoritarian conservatism.

How in the world is it conservative?

[Christian Democrats]

Fascism is authoritarian conservatism.

Not really. Fascism is modernistic or postmodernistic, unlike conservatism. Fascists want to transcend the traditional societal structures and classical schools of thought so that national unity and class cooperation (hopefully) can be achieved. To quote the Wikipedia article on "Fascism and ideology":

Unlike conservatism, fascism specifically presents itself as a modern ideology that is willing to break free from moral and political constraints of traditional society. The conservative authoritarian right is distinguished from fascism in that such conservatives utilized traditional religion as the basis for their views while fascists . . . based their views on more complex issues such as vitalism, nonrationalism, or secular neo-idealism.

The fascist ideology promotes revolution, whereas conservatives favor reform.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

I don't have an issue with Conservatism in general, really- I do think that society should pause for a moment before making an informed and intelligent choice with regards to changing the status quo or trying to maintain the best of the old while accepting the best of the new.

But I do dislike the staunch refusal of any change that a lot of American and Indian conservatives have been doing lately, or even trying (seemingly) to push back progress.

[Frisivisia]

Conservatism isn't bad. Thinking about change before making it is good. However, reactionaryism is liek, uberbad mang.

[Disserbia]

Fascism is authoritarian conservatism.

No it isn't. Fascism is totalitarian, which is not authoritarian. It is also not conservative as much as jingoistic.

Yeah totalitarian is a better word, you're right.

[The Steel Magnolia]

As I've grown vaguely older (an admittedly flawed statement when one is still in her teens, but I digress), I've also grown rather more respect for conservatism. Change for the sake of change and progress for progress' sake is not always beneficial, to say the least. And conservatism is certainly needed to restrain otherwise mercurial policy.

[Caninope]

As I've grown vaguely older (an admittedly flawed statement when one is still in her teens, but I digress), I've also grown rather more respect for conservatism. Change for the sake of change and progress for progress' sake is not always beneficial, to say the least. And conservatism is certainly needed to restrain otherwise mercurial policy.

It's OK to say that I've brought you to the dark side.

[The Steel Magnolia]

As I've grown vaguely older (an admittedly flawed statement when one is still in her teens, but I digress), I've also grown rather more respect for conservatism. Change for the sake of change and progress for progress' sake is not always beneficial, to say the least. And conservatism is certainly needed to restrain otherwise mercurial policy.

It's OK to say that I've brought you to the dark side.

oh absolutely.

You corrupter of innocents you.

Still not quite right wing enough to label myself a progressive conservative mind. Close though.

[Diopolis]

It's OK to say that I've brought you to the dark side.

oh absolutely.

You corrupter of innocents you.

Still not quite right wing enough to label myself a progressive conservative mind. Close though.

Progressive conservative? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

[Farnhamia]

oh absolutely.

You corrupter of innocents you.

Still not quite right wing enough to label myself a progressive conservative mind. Close though.

Progressive conservative? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

Like "Liberal Republican"?

[Mintu]

Progressive conservative? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

Like "Liberal Republican"?

I think that's different, because a Republican is a member of an organization, but necessarily a follower of a particular ideology, as a progressive conservative would be.

[Gallup]

I would say I'm a Jon Huntsman Conservative. Huntsman 2016!

[The Realm of God]

oh absolutely.

You corrupter of innocents you.

Still not quite right wing enough to label myself a progressive conservative mind. Close though.

Progressive conservative? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

No, not at all.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_conservatism

[Cosara]

oh absolutely.

You corrupter of innocents you.

Still not quite right wing enough to label myself a progressive conservative mind. Close though.

Progressive conservative? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

Not at all. Someone's already beaten me to posting the link. Refer to that post.

[Irredento]

Progressive conservative? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

No, not at all.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_conservatism

I find it kind of amusing that I'm a "progressive conservative" according to this article, specifically with the mention of Rerum Novarum, which had a pretty huge influence on me and my distributist views. I suppose we both chose a "centre" of sorts over capitalism and communism but I chose a radical alternative while you chose more of a compromise between existing ideologies.

[Diopolis]

Progressive conservative? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

No, not at all.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_conservatism

Fascinating