Why should cultures be kept 'pure'?

[Zohai]

Don't you think cultures that are intellectually, technologically, scientifically and morally superior have the right (and maybe even responsibility) to annihilate and replace inferior cultures?

Only by example and voluntary abandonment of inferior traits by the members of the inferior culture.

But there are some aspects of our culture we regard as universal, for example the right to human dignity and property rights. So we are defending people against elements within their own society.

define superior
define inferior

In the sense that something is better and something is worse. The PS3 is better than the PS2.

[Ruridova]

Only by example and voluntary abandonment of inferior traits by the members of the inferior culture.

But there are some aspects of our culture we regard as universal, for example the right to human dignity and property rights. So we are defend people against elements within their own society.

define superior
define inferior

In the sense that something is better and something is worse. The PS3 is better than the PS2.

Superiority and inferiority are subjective. No doubt Cortez found the Aztecs highly inferior to Spanish culture. No doubt a lot of Aztecs were disgusted with several Spanish cultural traits.

[Arglorand]

In the sense that something is better and something is worse. The PS3 is better than the PS2.

Subjective. So that definition dooms you to eternal subjectiveness.

(Mind you, I've never used either.)

[Puah-Puah Kepulauan]

It depends on the culture. The culture that is savage and entails things such as sexism, racism, bigotry, homophobia, love for violence, and the like should be either heavily changed or replaced with a superior culture.

But although I don't want to live in a society characterized by such a culture as well as you probably don't want to, isn't it very 'eurocentric' (I just don't know the English expression including Northern America, too) to think that such cultures should be abolished? And again, what is a 'superior' culture? Is it a culture that pays regard to Western values?

[Screensaver]

It depends on the culture. The culture that is savage and entails things such as sexism, racism, bigotry, homophobia, love for violence, and the like should be either heavily changed or replaced with a superior culture.

But although I don't want to live in a society characterized by such a culture as well as you probably don't want to, isn't it very 'eurocentric' (I just don't know the English expression including Northern America, too) to think that such cultures should be abolished? And again, what is a 'superior' culture? Is it a culture that pays regard to Western values?

A superior culture is a culture that doesn't entail the elements of sexism, racism, bigotry, homophobia, or a love for violence. While no culture truly meets those requirements there are some cultures that come much closer to these ideals than others. All races are equal. Cultures are NOT equal. European culture for example is superior to cultures that treat women as second class citizens, execute homosexuals, rape infants to cure HIV/AIDS, and kill albinos for witchcraft rituals.

[Arglorand]

But although I don't want to live in a society characterized by such a culture as well as you probably don't want to, isn't it very 'eurocentric' (I just don't know the English expression including Northern America, too) to think that such cultures should be abolished? And again, what is a 'superior' culture? Is it a culture that pays regard to Western values?

A superior culture is a culture that doesn't entail the elements of sexism, racism, bigotry, homophobia, or a love for violence. While no culture truly meets those requirements there are some cultures that come much closer to these ideals than others. All races are equal. Cultures are NOT equal. European culture for example is superior to cultures that treat women as second class citizens, execute homosexuals, rape infants to cure HIV/AIDS, and kill albinos for witchcraft rituals.

European culture is not superior. Those particular areas of European culture - yes, they might be, from our (eurocentric) perspective, superior. But the cultures you mentioned are not composed entirely of hating others and being violent, contrary to popular belief. There are most definitely areas in those cultures that are at the very least decent.

[Screensaver]

A superior culture is a culture that doesn't entail the elements of sexism, racism, bigotry, homophobia, or a love for violence. While no culture truly meets those requirements there are some cultures that come much closer to these ideals than others. All races are equal. Cultures are NOT equal. European culture for example is superior to cultures that treat women as second class citizens, execute homosexuals, rape infants to cure HIV/AIDS, and kill albinos for witchcraft rituals.

European culture is not superior. Those particular areas of European culture - yes, they might be, from our (eurocentric) perspective, superior. But the cultures you mentioned are not composed entirely of hating others and being violent, contrary to popular belief.

Source that.

[Arglorand]

European culture is not superior. Those particular areas of European culture - yes, they might be, from our (eurocentric) perspective, superior. But the cultures you mentioned are not composed entirely of hating others and being violent, contrary to popular belief.

Source that.

Give me a culture you would consider entirely violent and hateful. For now, since your definition sounds like nearing it, I will provide examples from Tanzania.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ving_1.jpg
^Tanzanian carvings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJiHDmyhE1A
^Tanzanian music.

[Ashlak]

Having a "pure" culture is simply impossible. Cultures change and mix, and there really isn't anything that anyone can do about it.

[Screensaver]

Source that.

Give me a culture you would consider entirely violent and hateful. For now, since your definition sounds like nearing it, I will provide examples from Tanzania.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ving_1.jpg
^Tanzanian carvings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJiHDmyhE1A
^Tanzanian music.

The first link is just a picture of carvings. The second link is a music video. What you fail to recognize is that Tanzania is a multicultural country. There is some civilization these but there are other areas that are uncivilized.

[Zohai]

So what about this Ayn Rand quote:

"[The Native Americans] didn't have any rights to the land and there was no reason for anyone to grant them rights which they had not conceived and were not using.... What was it they were fighting for, if they opposed white men on this continent? For their wish to continue a primitive existence, their "right" to keep part of the earth untouched, unused and not even as property, just keep everybody out so that you will live practically like an animal, or maybe a few caves above it. Any white person who brought the element of civilization had the right to take over this continent."

Isn't she right? Maybe not in justifing the killing of native americans, but in the sense that native american culture was outdated and doomed to fail. It has no place in a modern world.

[Arglorand]

Give me a culture you would consider entirely violent and hateful. For now, since your definition sounds like nearing it, I will provide examples from Tanzania.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ving_1.jpg
^Tanzanian carvings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJiHDmyhE1A
^Tanzanian music.

The first link is just a picture of carvings. The second link is a music video. What you fail to recognize is that Tanzania is a multicultural country. There is some civilization these but there are other areas that are uncivilized.

What you fail to recognize is that these are examples of Tanzanian culture, which is a syncretism of ancient traditions and modern, Europeanesque morality. You are suggesting that we go in, start a new age of global colonialism where we once again (because that worked so well last time) attempt forcing our culture on others, instead of tackling ISSUES with various cultures. While we're at that, we have ISSUES in our own culture, so please, before you suggest annihilating these cultures entirely, try to actually look at their bright sides.

[Arglorand]

So what about this Ayn Rand quote:

"[The Native Americans] didn't have any rights to the land and there was no reason for anyone to grant them rights which they had not conceived and were not using.... What was it they were fighting for, if they opposed white men on this continent? For their wish to continue a primitive existence, their "right" to keep part of the earth untouched, unused and not even as property, just keep everybody out so that you will live practically like an animal, or maybe a few caves above it. Any white person who brought the element of civilization had the right to take over this continent."

Isn't she right? Maybe not in justifing the killing of native americans, but in the sense that native american culture was outdated and doomed to fail. It has no place in a modern world.

So imagine an advanced alien race invades the Earth.

Would you surrender just because of their 'civilizational superiority'?

[Puah-Puah Kepulauan]

But although I don't want to live in a society characterized by such a culture as well as you probably don't want to, isn't it very 'eurocentric' (I just don't know the English expression including Northern America, too) to think that such cultures should be abolished? And again, what is a 'superior' culture? Is it a culture that pays regard to Western values?

A superior culture is a culture that doesn't entail the elements of sexism, racism, bigotry, homophobia, or a love for violence. While no culture truly meets those requirements there are some cultures that come much closer to these ideals than others. All races are equal. Cultures are NOT equal. European culture for example is superior to cultures that treat women as second class citizens, execute homosexuals, rape infants to cure HIV/AIDS, and kill albinos for witchcraft rituals.

But that's subjective. Some people might think a culture is superior when women are treated according to the traditions, homosexuality is a crime against nature etc.

As a member of a human rights organization, I agitate against such cultures by organizing lectures about discrimination of women and similar things. But the more I think about that in a reflexive way, the more I feel that I represent an eurocentric, dogmatic attitude myself.

[Ruridova]

So what about this Ayn Rand quote:

"[The Native Americans] didn't have any rights to the land and there was no reason for anyone to grant them rights which they had not conceived and were not using.... What was it they were fighting for, if they opposed white men on this continent? For their wish to continue a primitive existence, their "right" to keep part of the earth untouched, unused and not even as property, just keep everybody out so that you will live practically like an animal, or maybe a few caves above it. Any white person who brought the element of civilization had the right to take over this continent."

Isn't she right? Maybe not in justifing the killing of native americans, but in the sense that native american culture was outdated and doomed to fail. It has no place in a modern world.

It has every place in the world; they have just as much right to practice their culture as you do yours. We could probably learn a few things about not fucking up the environment from them.
Also, another Ayn Rand quote, while we're at it:

"Any man using the words of another is an unthinking parasite worthy of contempt and death."

[Arglorand]

So what about this Ayn Rand quote:

Isn't she right? Maybe not in justifing the killing of native americans, but in the sense that native american culture was outdated and doomed to fail. It has no place in a modern world.

It has every place in the world; they have just as much right to practice their culture as you do yours. We could probably learn a few things about not fucking up the environment from them.
Also, another Ayn Rand quote, while we're at it:

"Any man using the words of another is an unthinking parasite worthy of contempt and death."

Just a passing thought: that sort of man should feel proud, because he got into the worthy category of all the glorious people who Rand wished death upon.

[Screensaver]

The first link is just a picture of carvings. The second link is a music video. What you fail to recognize is that Tanzania is a multicultural country. There is some civilization these but there are other areas that are uncivilized.

What you fail to recognize is that these are examples of Tanzanian culture, which is a syncretism of ancient traditions and modern, Europeanesque morality. You are suggesting that we go in, start a new age of global colonialism where we once again (because that worked so well last time) attempt forcing our culture on others, instead of tackling ISSUES with various cultures. While we're at that, we have ISSUES in our own culture, so please, before you suggest annihilating these cultures entirely, try to actually look at their bright sides.

Where did I say that we should colonize them again? To me I think the best way to change them is to actively engage them in peaceful dialogue so that they may see the errors of their ways. Sure European culture isn't perfect but it is better than savage cultures that entail sexism. bigotry, homophobia, love for violence, etc. I would never advocate violent means to change a culture. We should leave that to the savage cultures.

[Luxembourgish Federal Republic]

Multiculturalism is everything and nothing. I think it destroys a lot, espacially in small countries like Luxembourg. For Luxembourg for instance, it would be very important to focus on our culture, because we have 1/2 of the population foreigners (mostly french-speaking) and the other half natives, assimilated Luxembourgians. Most foreigners tend to speak French and not Luxembourgish, it's not only their fault but also our governments fault (we still have French as administrative language, although I consider it as imposed language, because it has not the same roots as Luxembourgish and was imposed by Napoleon through his conquests). I think the right thing that could have been done, would be to abolish together with German, after the Second World War, French too as administrative language and to make Luxembourgish as the only administrative language. On top of that, I'd have introduced English as international language, because I agree that a country can't be closed or isolated, especially when it is a small tiny country like Luxembourg. I prefer integration, a Leitkultur, mixed with English lessons (+any other language) at school, praising multiculturalism is like praising anarchism. In multiculturalism one tries to mix all different cultures, but look at the colours, when we mix all of them we ahve something brownish. The same goes for multiculturalism, it becomes boring and sometimes it even bothers me. Multiculturalism doesn't embellish the world, it makes it boring!

[Mexicanada]

They shouldn't be.


/thread

Lol

[Ruridova]

It has every place in the world; they have just as much right to practice their culture as you do yours. We could probably learn a few things about not fucking up the environment from them.
Also, another Ayn Rand quote, while we're at it:

Just a passing thought: that sort of man should feel proud, because he got into the worthy category of all the glorious people who Rand wished death upon.

Rand wasn't exactly the kind of person who agreed to disagree.

[Zohai]

So what about this Ayn Rand quote:

Isn't she right? Maybe not in justifing the killing of native americans, but in the sense that native american culture was outdated and doomed to fail. It has no place in a modern world.

So imagine an advanced alien race invades the Earth.

Would you surrender just because of their 'civilizational superiority'?

Well, there's no reason to fight it. We should embrace it instead of fighting for a lost cause.

[Arglorand]

What you fail to recognize is that these are examples of Tanzanian culture, which is a syncretism of ancient traditions and modern, Europeanesque morality. You are suggesting that we go in, start a new age of global colonialism where we once again (because that worked so well last time) attempt forcing our culture on others, instead of tackling ISSUES with various cultures. While we're at that, we have ISSUES in our own culture, so please, before you suggest annihilating these cultures entirely, try to actually look at their bright sides.

Where did I say that we should colonize them again? To me I think the best way to change them is to actively engage them in peaceful dialogue so that they may see the errors of their ways. Sure European culture isn't perfect but it is better than savage cultures that entail sexism. bigotry, homophobia, love for violence, etc. I would never advocate violent means to change a culture. We should leave that to the savage cultures.

I'm not sure you understand me. What I'm trying to say is that your 'savage cultures' have noteworthy, decent values mixed in among the bullshit that are worth keeping. Indeed, we should engage them in dialogue - but not in neo-colonialism, which doesn't even really need to be political. We don't need to impose European culture upon them diplomatically any more than we needed to impose it militarily; we need to advocate human, humanist values that have nothing to do with being European besides being somewhat occasionally popular here.

[Luxembourgish Federal Republic]

There is no superior or inferior culture, I think every culture should be protected and every people should have their indigenous rights!

[Arglorand]

So imagine an advanced alien race invades the Earth.

Would you surrender just because of their 'civilizational superiority'?

Well, there's no reason to fight it. We should embrace it instead of fighting for a lost cause.

Well you can go collaborate, then.

I will fight for humanity's right not to be stuck into a reservation for a 'backward people who are outdated and doomed to fail'.

[Ruridova]

So imagine an advanced alien race invades the Earth.

Would you surrender just because of their 'civilizational superiority'?

Well, there's no reason to fight it. We should embrace it instead of fighting for a lost cause.

Methinks that you're saying this far more easily than you would actually do it.