NATION

PASSWORD

Why should cultures be kept 'pure'?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Puah-Puah Kepulauan
Secretary
 
Posts: 31
Founded: Mar 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Why should cultures be kept 'pure'?

Postby Puah-Puah Kepulauan » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:49 am

So, there are some questions I'd like to discuss with you. I will ask you them right away:

1. Are cultures something static that stays the same for a specific period of time or are they in a constant condition of irritation, negotiation and restructuring?

2. Are cultures characterized by hybridity, meaning that they are the products of intercultural debates between two different cultures?

3. If so, isn't it dubious to protect the culture you got accustomed to against the (peacefully advanced) influences of other, minority cultures, as every culture will eventually be influenced and transformed?


These questions have bothered me for some time now. I grew up in a city with the children and children's children of immigrants from foreign countries. Although the immigrants and their descendants make up a large part of that city's population, there is still mourning and protesting among the 'natives' when the 'others' want to express their respective cultures in the same free way as the 'natives', starting with barroom chlichés like „In the Alps, a minaret mustn't be higher than a church spire!“ and concluding with the city's mayor acting in an openly discriminant way. Of course, further barroom chlichés like „Those foreigners don't want to integrate!“ are to follow.
And I never understood the reasons for such protective behavior, nor could I follow explanations like „This land has been 'Alextopian' for some centuries now and because of that it has to stay 'Alextopian'!“

In the last few weeks, I had to read some texts by Homi K. Bhabha that made me thinking very hard about it again and finally, the three questions above are those that I would like to ask people that want to protect 'their' land against foreign cultures.
Unfortunately, in my real life I only have contact to people who have more or less the same oppinion as me or who can't really discuss. So I decided to ask them here, hoping that some of you will disagree and bring real arguments.
History is herstory too.
Student of History and German. Feminist. Social democrat. Human rights activist.
For the legalization of cannabis and equal LGBT rights.
Ethnicities are arbitrary constructs formed by the concept of cultures as something static.
Cultures are formed by hybridity, a state of permanent irritation and rearrangement.
Political test

User avatar
Divair
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63434
Founded: May 06, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Divair » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:49 am

They shouldn't be.


/thread

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57898
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:50 am

Divair wrote:They shouldn't be.


/thread


Goddammit, I was prepared to make an argument but this pretty much does it. :p
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8111
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:52 am

Multiculturalism has caused plenty of problems, but cultural purism would be even more destructive. I couldn't live in a 100% Finnish neighbourhood, because most Finns are just too damn irritating.

Cultures shouldn't be kept pure, but letting it all roam around won't work either.
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American.

User avatar
Ruridova
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15860
Founded: Jun 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Ruridova » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:52 am

Divair wrote:They shouldn't be.


/thread
This, essentially.
Республіка Рюрідова - Королівство Вілкія
"For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink; I was a stranger and you invited me in; I needed clothes and you clothed me; I was sick and you looked after me; I was in prison and you came to visit me... Truly, whatever you did for one of the least of my brothers and sisters, you did for me."
- the Gospel of Matthew, 25:35-40

User avatar
7 Deadly Sins
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 120
Founded: Mar 06, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby 7 Deadly Sins » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:54 am

I think it shouldn't however it isn't a bad thing to know about ones past. But of course that can be debaitable

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 159079
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:56 am

No culture is pure, thus they cannot be kept pure, thus there cannot be a reason for them to be kept pure.

User avatar
Arglorand
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12597
Founded: Jan 08, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Arglorand » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:56 am

Divair wrote:They shouldn't be.


/thread

Dammit, Divair, you ninja.
Kosovo is Morrowind. N'wah.
Impeach Dagoth Ur, legalise Daedra worship, the Empire is theft. Nerevarine 3E 427.

Pros: Dunmeri independence, abolition of the Empire, the Daedra, Morag Tong, House Redoran, Ashlander interests, abolitionism, Dissident Priests, canonisation of St. Jiub the Cliff Racer Slayer.
Cons: Imperials, the Empire, the False Tribunal, Dagoth Ur, House Hlaalu, Imperials, the Eight Divines, "Talos", "Nords", Imperial unionism, Imperials.

I am a: Social Democrat | Bright green | Republican | Intersectional feminist | Civic nationalist | Multiculturalist
(and i blatantly stole this from Old Tyrannia)

User avatar
Tsuntion
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1939
Founded: Nov 10, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Tsuntion » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:10 am

Cultures change. I expect that people who complain about this are probably people losing out because of it.
I'm not a roleplayer, but check these out: The United Defenders League and The Versutian Federation.

The Emerald Dawn wrote:Jumpin' on the SOURCE-TRAIN!

CHOO CHOO MUFUKA! We be ridin' the rails, checkin' the trails, you get nothin' and your argument fails!

User avatar
Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65248
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:11 am

"Pure culture" is an oxymoron.
Also bland and boring.
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

User avatar
Wikkiwallana
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22500
Founded: Mar 21, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Wikkiwallana » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:12 am

Yes, if you get a contaminated culture, all your test results are going to be completely worthless, and then whoops, that's your 10 million dollar grant squandered.

Oh, wait, we're talking about that other kind of culture? Throw them all in a blender and pour me out some of that delicious multi-ethnic smoothie.
Proud Scalawag and Statist!

Please don't confuse my country for my politics; my country is being run as a parody, my posts aren't.
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Halt!
Just because these people are stupid, wrong and highly dangerous does not mean you have the right to make them feel sad.
Xenohumanity wrote:
Nulono wrote:Snip
I'm a pro-lifer who runs a nation of dragon-men...
And even I think that's stupid.
Avenio wrote:Just so you know, the use of the term 'sheep' 'sheeple' or any other herd animal-based terminology in conjunction with an exhortation to 'think outside the box' or stop going along with groupthink generally indicates that the speaker is actually more closed-minded on the subject than the people that he/she is addressing. At least, in my experience at least.

User avatar
Wikkiwallana
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22500
Founded: Mar 21, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Wikkiwallana » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:13 am

Kvatchdom wrote:letting it all roam around won't work either.


Why not?
Proud Scalawag and Statist!

Please don't confuse my country for my politics; my country is being run as a parody, my posts aren't.
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Halt!
Just because these people are stupid, wrong and highly dangerous does not mean you have the right to make them feel sad.
Xenohumanity wrote:
Nulono wrote:Snip
I'm a pro-lifer who runs a nation of dragon-men...
And even I think that's stupid.
Avenio wrote:Just so you know, the use of the term 'sheep' 'sheeple' or any other herd animal-based terminology in conjunction with an exhortation to 'think outside the box' or stop going along with groupthink generally indicates that the speaker is actually more closed-minded on the subject than the people that he/she is addressing. At least, in my experience at least.

User avatar
Arglorand
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12597
Founded: Jan 08, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Arglorand » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 am

Immoren wrote:"Pure culture" is an oxymoron.
Also bland and boring.

Also impossible. What racists often tend to forget is that if you browse really good in their family trees, their ancestors had nothing to do at all with the culture they're in, so they're not just idiots, not just boring, but also hypocrites.
Kosovo is Morrowind. N'wah.
Impeach Dagoth Ur, legalise Daedra worship, the Empire is theft. Nerevarine 3E 427.

Pros: Dunmeri independence, abolition of the Empire, the Daedra, Morag Tong, House Redoran, Ashlander interests, abolitionism, Dissident Priests, canonisation of St. Jiub the Cliff Racer Slayer.
Cons: Imperials, the Empire, the False Tribunal, Dagoth Ur, House Hlaalu, Imperials, the Eight Divines, "Talos", "Nords", Imperial unionism, Imperials.

I am a: Social Democrat | Bright green | Republican | Intersectional feminist | Civic nationalist | Multiculturalist
(and i blatantly stole this from Old Tyrannia)

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57898
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:16 am

Arglorand wrote:
Immoren wrote:"Pure culture" is an oxymoron.
Also bland and boring.

Also impossible. What racists often tend to forget is that if you browse really good in their family trees, their ancestors had nothing to do at all with the culture they're in, so they're not just idiots, not just boring, but also hypocrites.


There is a primary branch of humans in africa that could potentially claim to be the purest cultured humans on the planet.
Everything else is basically a mutation of them or of their forebears.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

User avatar
Arglorand
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12597
Founded: Jan 08, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Arglorand » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:17 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Arglorand wrote:Also impossible. What racists often tend to forget is that if you browse really good in their family trees, their ancestors had nothing to do at all with the culture they're in, so they're not just idiots, not just boring, but also hypocrites.


There is a primary branch of humans in africa that could potentially claim to be the purest cultured humans on the planet.
Everything else is basically a mutation of them or of their forebears.

Said branch is also likely to have mixed with mutations, no?
Kosovo is Morrowind. N'wah.
Impeach Dagoth Ur, legalise Daedra worship, the Empire is theft. Nerevarine 3E 427.

Pros: Dunmeri independence, abolition of the Empire, the Daedra, Morag Tong, House Redoran, Ashlander interests, abolitionism, Dissident Priests, canonisation of St. Jiub the Cliff Racer Slayer.
Cons: Imperials, the Empire, the False Tribunal, Dagoth Ur, House Hlaalu, Imperials, the Eight Divines, "Talos", "Nords", Imperial unionism, Imperials.

I am a: Social Democrat | Bright green | Republican | Intersectional feminist | Civic nationalist | Multiculturalist
(and i blatantly stole this from Old Tyrannia)

User avatar
Zohai
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 118
Founded: Nov 19, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Zohai » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:17 am

Don't you think cultures that are intellectually, technologically, scientifically and morally superior have the right (and maybe even responsibility) to annihilate and replace inferior cultures?

User avatar
Arglorand
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12597
Founded: Jan 08, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Arglorand » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:17 am

Zohai wrote:Don't you think cultures that are intellectually, technologically, scientifically and morally superior have the right (and maybe even responsibility) to annihilate and replace inferior cultures?

No.
Kosovo is Morrowind. N'wah.
Impeach Dagoth Ur, legalise Daedra worship, the Empire is theft. Nerevarine 3E 427.

Pros: Dunmeri independence, abolition of the Empire, the Daedra, Morag Tong, House Redoran, Ashlander interests, abolitionism, Dissident Priests, canonisation of St. Jiub the Cliff Racer Slayer.
Cons: Imperials, the Empire, the False Tribunal, Dagoth Ur, House Hlaalu, Imperials, the Eight Divines, "Talos", "Nords", Imperial unionism, Imperials.

I am a: Social Democrat | Bright green | Republican | Intersectional feminist | Civic nationalist | Multiculturalist
(and i blatantly stole this from Old Tyrannia)

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57898
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:18 am

Arglorand wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
There is a primary branch of humans in africa that could potentially claim to be the purest cultured humans on the planet.
Everything else is basically a mutation of them or of their forebears.

Said branch is also likely to have mixed with mutations, no?


Sure, probably. But it's the only claim that isn't IMMEDIATELY dismissable as inherently stupid and self-contradicting.

Zohai wrote:Don't you think cultures that are intellectually, technologically, scientifically and morally superior have the right (and maybe even responsibility) to annihilate and replace inferior cultures?


Only by example and voluntary abandonment of inferior traits by the members of the inferior culture.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

User avatar
Ruridova
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15860
Founded: Jun 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Ruridova » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:18 am

Zohai wrote:Don't you think cultures that are intellectually, technologically, scientifically and morally superior have the right (and maybe even responsibility) to annihilate and replace inferior cultures?

I'd doubt that there are cultuers that are superior or inferior to others. So, no, I don't.
Республіка Рюрідова - Королівство Вілкія
"For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink; I was a stranger and you invited me in; I needed clothes and you clothed me; I was sick and you looked after me; I was in prison and you came to visit me... Truly, whatever you did for one of the least of my brothers and sisters, you did for me."
- the Gospel of Matthew, 25:35-40

User avatar
Wikkiwallana
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22500
Founded: Mar 21, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Wikkiwallana » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:21 am

Zohai wrote:Don't you think cultures that are intellectually, technologically, scientifically and morally superior have the right (and maybe even responsibility) to annihilate and replace inferior cultures?

Morally superior people generally don't engage in genocide.
Proud Scalawag and Statist!

Please don't confuse my country for my politics; my country is being run as a parody, my posts aren't.
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Halt!
Just because these people are stupid, wrong and highly dangerous does not mean you have the right to make them feel sad.
Xenohumanity wrote:
Nulono wrote:Snip
I'm a pro-lifer who runs a nation of dragon-men...
And even I think that's stupid.
Avenio wrote:Just so you know, the use of the term 'sheep' 'sheeple' or any other herd animal-based terminology in conjunction with an exhortation to 'think outside the box' or stop going along with groupthink generally indicates that the speaker is actually more closed-minded on the subject than the people that he/she is addressing. At least, in my experience at least.

User avatar
Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65248
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:22 am

Zohai wrote:Don't you think cultures that are intellectually, technologically, scientifically and morally superior have the right (and maybe even responsibility) to annihilate and replace inferior cultures?

define superior
define inferior
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

User avatar
Arglorand
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12597
Founded: Jan 08, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Arglorand » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:23 am

Wikkiwallana wrote:
Zohai wrote:Don't you think cultures that are intellectually, technologically, scientifically and morally superior have the right (and maybe even responsibility) to annihilate and replace inferior cultures?

Morally superior people generally don't engage in genocide.

Thank you.

That was just so right I had to thank you.
Kosovo is Morrowind. N'wah.
Impeach Dagoth Ur, legalise Daedra worship, the Empire is theft. Nerevarine 3E 427.

Pros: Dunmeri independence, abolition of the Empire, the Daedra, Morag Tong, House Redoran, Ashlander interests, abolitionism, Dissident Priests, canonisation of St. Jiub the Cliff Racer Slayer.
Cons: Imperials, the Empire, the False Tribunal, Dagoth Ur, House Hlaalu, Imperials, the Eight Divines, "Talos", "Nords", Imperial unionism, Imperials.

I am a: Social Democrat | Bright green | Republican | Intersectional feminist | Civic nationalist | Multiculturalist
(and i blatantly stole this from Old Tyrannia)

User avatar
Screensaver
Diplomat
 
Posts: 529
Founded: Mar 04, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Screensaver » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:23 am

It depends on the culture. The culture that is savage and entails things such as sexism, racism, bigotry, homophobia, love for violence, and the like should be either heavily changed or replaced with a superior culture.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 159079
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:29 am

Zohai wrote:Don't you think cultures that are intellectually, technologically, scientifically and morally superior have the right (and maybe even responsibility) to annihilate and replace inferior cultures?

States Cultures don't have rights. People have rights.

User avatar
Elmo Logic
Envoy
 
Posts: 220
Founded: Nov 27, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Elmo Logic » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:29 am

All cultures should be taken back to how people think they probably were 150 years ago and kept like that.

Because that's better for some reason.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Allah Birds, American Legionaries, Ameriganastan, Des-Bal, Elwher, Forsher, Fractalnavel, Galloism, Greater Miami Shores 3, Kaku, Nilokeras, Senkaku, Shidei, South Africa3, Tarsonis, The Rio Grande River Basin, The Selkie, Uiiop, Umeria, Wrekstaat

Advertisement

Remove ads