The Mod-Sanctioned Israel/Palestine thread

[DogDoo 7]

I was just curious about this, and I can't find any news about it since 2011. I wonder if the fields haven't panned out.

We could probably ask Dogdoo, I think he works at an oil field or a refinery. I'm unsure.

Yeah, I do. Anyway, shale oil is bad. It's a real great way to ruin the environment (of which there isn't so much of here). They're starting experimental drilling and some of my friends are quite active (Hebrew) against it.

The giant gas field is a much better option. It has enough gas to power Israel for 100 years or so. And, may even require Israel and Lebanon to cooperate on finally demarcating their maritime border (Lebanon has gas fields as well, so both sides have a strong economic interest to work together).

The only problem is that Israel has 0 infrastructure equipped to deal with offshore gas drilling, receiving, and transporting. And the only companies willing to finance the construction of all this expensive infrastructure expect the gas to be sold off very quickly on the foreign market so they can make a quick buck. Of course, all that short term profit will go into the coffers of the well-connected here and we'll be left without gas.

[DogDoo 7]

Ah, but it doesn't prove your point, because you said that the muslim countries kicked them out. Instead, the zionists convinced them to leave.

To be entirely fair about it, the Vichy (French) regime in Morocco during WWII passed a number of discriminatory laws towards the Jewish populace, however King Muhammed V stated his complete distaste and displeasure towards said laws, and said he would never bring harm to any Jewish person within Morocco. Prior to, and directly after, Morocco's independence Jewish people did hold a number of cabinet and parliament positions, and they were generally well treated by the highest officials. That said, the lower officials were not exactly as kind, and there were anti-Jewish riots on a few ocassions.

That said, they were not expelled by Morocco, nor were they officially ill-treated by the government in any way. Popular opinion, coupled with low-ranking officials taking things in their own hands, and fears by the Jewish community led to a slow, but steady, trickle of the Jewish population out of Morocco. They actually left of their own accord, and the government tried its damndest to treat them well officially. Just that things did sour a bit among some of the Arab population. After the 1967 war, tensions once again rose and a good deal of Jews left again, although most not for Israel but instead for various European countries.

Still, they do have a relatively large population of Jewish folk, and they never actually expelled them at any time much like the rest of the Arab world.

Interestingly, the King currently maintains a Jewish advisor even though the population is a very minor group.

Morocco is an odd duck on this, as the leaders of the country have historically been much kinder and sympathetic to the Jewish population than surrounding nations, at some times running at odds with the popular opinion. Further, the "exodus" of Jews from Morocco since independence has little to do with official policy, and more to do with uncertainty about things to come than anything else. The country has, at least at its highest levels, been trying its damndest to be an actually decent Arab country.

Many Moroccan Israelis that I know say the Moroccan government confiscated their valuables when they left. I haven't been able to confirm this.

[Seangoli]

Many Moroccan Israelis that I know say the Moroccan government confiscated their valuables when they left. I haven't been able to confirm this.

I don't know about that, as I haven't been able to find much on it. It's possible that certain elements were acting of their own accord, as can happen with immigration. In many countries in the world, particularly if there isn't much oversight, immigration officers can pretty much act as they please claiming official policy. Certain areas have immigration officials demanding "entry fees" and the like from those who enter or leave the country, particularly if the person is relatively wealthy. So it may very well have happened, but it may have had little to do with government policy and more to do with dickish individuals abusing their power in a system without as much oversight as there could be.

An interesting note is that those laws I spoke of that were passed by the Vichy government (Controlled by the Nazis at the time) is that Mohammed V refused to enforce them, and in open defiance of the Nazis actually invited the country's Rabbis to the throne ceremony in 1941. Basically, he gave the middle finger to the Nazis and told them, rather openly and clearly, to shove it. And it also seems that many of the Jewish population left largely for economic reasons, as Morocco's economy has been shaky since independence, going from decent to shit and back again.

Interesting history behind this country, really.

[DogDoo 7]

Where the fuck do you get your information from? Settlements started pretty much as soon as the dust settled from the 67 War and mainly consisted of a few people bringing caravans and sitting around until the state was kind enough to hook them up with electricity and water. Guess when the state is going to hook up Iqrit to the grid? And this is despite a SUPREME COURT ORDER giving them the right to be there.

Maybe the arabs/palestinians shouldn't have massed for invasion in the first place........ then they wouldn't have gotten their asses kicked and we wouldn't be having this discussion. And yes, Gaza is now Israeli and will remain so.

I'm not opposed to annexation of Gaza, as soon as you add the 1.5 million people to the citizenship rolls.

[Yehuddah]

Maybe the arabs/palestinians shouldn't have massed for invasion in the first place........ then they wouldn't have gotten their asses kicked and we wouldn't be having this discussion. And yes, Gaza is now Israeli and will remain so.

I'm not opposed to annexation of Gaza, as soon as you add the 1.5 million people to the citizenship rolls.

That would cause a serious demographic threat?
It seems like you always try to find a way to make us a minority?
Yes, we want to annex Judea and Samaria and the Gaza strip, but only after we move them out!

[Wamitoria]

I'm not opposed to annexation of Gaza, as soon as you add the 1.5 million people to the citizenship rolls.

That would cause a serious demographic threat?
It seems like you always try to find a way to make us a minority?
Yes, we want to annex Judea and Samaria and the Gaza strip, but only after we move them out!

You're making your side appear so reasonable right now.

[DogDoo 7]

I'm not opposed to annexation of Gaza, as soon as you add the 1.5 million people to the citizenship rolls.

That would cause a serious demographic threat?
It seems like you always try to find a way to make us a minority?
Yes, we want to annex Judea and Samaria and the Gaza strip, but only after we move them out!

I'm not the one who said "Gaza is now Israeli and will remain so." I'm officially agnostic regarding one-state or two-states, but will fight with all my might to prevent Israel from expelling people or selectively annexing territory.

[DogDoo 7]

That would cause a serious demographic threat?
It seems like you always try to find a way to make us a minority?
Yes, we want to annex Judea and Samaria and the Gaza strip, but only after we move them out!

You're making your side appear so reasonable right now.

It's basically in the equivalent part of the Overton Window as the people who want to deport all the illegal immigrants in the US. His whole Atheist Ashkenazi-supremacist shtick is a new one, but kicking out the Arabs has the same cachet as rounding up all brown people in the US and deporting them. There's no chance in hell the Supreme Court will allow it barring some massive court-packing.

[Yorkopolis]

I'm not opposed to annexation of Gaza, as soon as you add the 1.5 million people to the citizenship rolls.

That would cause a serious demographic threat?
It seems like you always try to find a way to make us a minority?
Yes, we want to annex Judea and Samaria and the Gaza strip, but only after we move them out!

Why do you care? In the whole world you're a supersmall minority, and besides, stop being so racist/supremacist. I'm ok with being nationalist, but seriously this kind of racism to me is incompatible with nationalism.

So you propose ethnic cleansing? Well then, you just again put yourself on par with a Hitlerite.

[Ralkovia]

That would cause a serious demographic threat?
It seems like you always try to find a way to make us a minority?
Yes, we want to annex Judea and Samaria and the Gaza strip, but only after we move them out!

Why do you care? In the whole world you're a supersmall minority, and besides, stop being so racist/supremacist. I'm ok with being nationalist, but seriously this kind of racism to me is incompatible with nationalism.

So you propose ethnic cleansing? Well then, you just again put yourself on par with a Hitlerite.

How has being a super small minority worked out for us before Israel?

I think you'll find generally "not well."

14 Million Jews. We're a religion whose earliest independent documentation dates back to around 1457 BCE.

Even by standard exponential growth at a rate of quarter that of the World's Population growth rate there should be a simple "Shit ton o' Jews."

http://www.endmemo.com/algebra/populationgrowth.php

I'll pull up a source later. If the Holocaust never happened, there would have been about 30 million more Jews running around on our Earth.

If it's us or them. I'm interested in us and not them.

I don't even think Dogdoo is stupid enough to honestly think that if the Arabs attained a majority in Israel that Israel wouldn't be transformed into just another Egypt or Lebanon¹ where minority rights extend to "not being purged on that day of the week." People keep saying that the Palestinians are Arab by culture. Everyone seems to forget that all the "Arab Nations" are hostile, racist countries that heavily persecute minorities.

So it might be common sense to block a minority that has historically when taking majority role persecute the former majority into nothingness.

Of course, the slogan of the hopeful is "This time it'll be different" works directly opposite to "Never again."

[Wamitoria]

-snip-

Then all is lost.

[DogDoo 7]

Why do you care? In the whole world you're a supersmall minority, and besides, stop being so racist/supremacist. I'm ok with being nationalist, but seriously this kind of racism to me is incompatible with nationalism.

So you propose ethnic cleansing? Well then, you just again put yourself on par with a Hitlerite.

I don't even think Dogdoo is stupid enough to honestly think that if the Arabs attained a majority in Israel that Israel wouldn't be transformed into just another Egypt or Lebanon¹ where minority rights extend to "not being purged on that day of the week." People keep saying that the Palestinians are Arab by culture. Everyone seems to forget that all the "Arab Nations" are hostile, racist countries that heavily persecute minorities.

Being a small minority worked out shitty before we had countries that respected the rights of all of its citizens as equals. No one's going to be purging the Jews of the Western World anymore. And maybe if we actually wrote a damn constitution that protected these rights of minorities, we wouldn't have to worry about this sort of shit. Israel/Palestine isn't Egypt (education and income is MUCH better, both of which lead to less purging) and we're not Lebanon (our society is much more integrated). In Lebanon, different sects literally don't even interact with each other. Here, even settlers and Palestinians buy groceries from (and work in) the same Rami Levy in Gush Etzion. Plus, there's a strong ideal of equality here (even if people don't always necessarily support it in practice, very few people openly say discrimination is good).

If people really feel that a Jewish State here is necessary, and that the Palestinians are too dangerous to give freedoms to, then we have to withdraw all Jewish civilian infrastructure behind the 67 line and only allow military presence in the OPT. Which would suck, but would also give everyone impetus to solve this shit. I am far too comfortable right now. Why should I care if Ahmed has rights? I can go to the beach and play next to Abraham's tomb in the same day!

[Wamitoria]

I don't even think Dogdoo is stupid enough to honestly think that if the Arabs attained a majority in Israel that Israel wouldn't be transformed into just another Egypt or Lebanon¹ where minority rights extend to "not being purged on that day of the week." People keep saying that the Palestinians are Arab by culture. Everyone seems to forget that all the "Arab Nations" are hostile, racist countries that heavily persecute minorities.

Being a small minority worked out shitty before we had countries that respected the rights of all of its citizens as equals. No one's going to be purging the Jews of the Western World anymore. And maybe if we actually wrote a damn constitution that protected these rights of minorities, we wouldn't have to worry about this sort of shit. Israel/Palestine isn't Egypt (education and income is MUCH better, both of which lead to less purging) and we're not Lebanon (our society is much more integrated). In Lebanon, different sects literally don't even interact with each other. Here, even settlers and Palestinians buy groceries from (and work in) the same Rami Levy in Gush Etzion. Plus, there's a strong ideal of equality here (even if people don't always necessarily support it in practice, very few people openly say discrimination is good).

Except, you know, people on this thread.

[DogDoo 7]

Being a small minority worked out shitty before we had countries that respected the rights of all of its citizens as equals. No one's going to be purging the Jews of the Western World anymore. And maybe if we actually wrote a damn constitution that protected these rights of minorities, we wouldn't have to worry about this sort of shit. Israel/Palestine isn't Egypt (education and income is MUCH better, both of which lead to less purging) and we're not Lebanon (our society is much more integrated). In Lebanon, different sects literally don't even interact with each other. Here, even settlers and Palestinians buy groceries from (and work in) the same Rami Levy in Gush Etzion. Plus, there's a strong ideal of equality here (even if people don't always necessarily support it in practice, very few people openly say discrimination is good).

Except, you know, people on this thread.

There's only one on here who's actually in Israel. All the other Israelis/ex-Israelis on this thread have some room to find a space for compromise. And again, with a constitution and a respectable judiciary, we wouldn't have to worry about this sort of discriminatory crap any more than the xenophobic European countries.

[DogDoo 7]

The comments are a trip to read.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

That proves my point. 5,000 isn't a reasonably large population.

Ah, but it doesn't prove your point, because you said that the muslim countries kicked them out. Instead, the zionists convinced them to leave.

Egypt, Yemen, Algeria, Tunisia, Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Libya kicked them out.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

I don't even think Dogdoo is stupid enough to honestly think that if the Arabs attained a majority in Israel that Israel wouldn't be transformed into just another Egypt or Lebanon¹ where minority rights extend to "not being purged on that day of the week." People keep saying that the Palestinians are Arab by culture. Everyone seems to forget that all the "Arab Nations" are hostile, racist countries that heavily persecute minorities.

Being a small minority worked out shitty before we had countries that respected the rights of all of its citizens as equals. No one's going to be purging the Jews of the Western World anymore.

You could have made the exact same argument in 1931 Germany.

[Priory Academy USSR]

Being a small minority worked out shitty before we had countries that respected the rights of all of its citizens as equals. No one's going to be purging the Jews of the Western World anymore.

You could have made the exact same argument in 1931 Germany.

Please, inform me of any political party with obvious 'we hate Jews' viewpoints in the Western World today.

I'll give you Golden Dawn. That doesn't rule out the rest of the West, only one country in very deep shit.

[Yorkopolis]

Everyone seems to forget that all the "Arab Nations" are hostile, racist countries that heavily persecute minorities.

Source this bullshit right now.

[Yorkopolis]

Ah, but it doesn't prove your point, because you said that the muslim countries kicked them out. Instead, the zionists convinced them to leave.

Egypt, Yemen, Algeria, Tunisia, Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Libya kicked them out.

Because they're Palestinians and not Egyptians/Yemenis/Algerians/Tunisians/Iraqis/Jordanians/Syrians/Lebanese/Libyans, perhaps? They also speak their own dialect of Arab.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

Egypt, Yemen, Algeria, Tunisia, Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Libya kicked them out.

Because they're Palestinians and not Egyptians/Yemenis/Algerians/Tunisians/Iraqis/Jordanians/Syrians/Lebanese/Libyans, perhaps? They also speak their own dialect of Arab.

I was talking about the 850,000 Jews who were kicked out of the Arab countries in 1947. Communites that pre-dated Islam.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

You could have made the exact same argument in 1931 Germany.

Please, inform me of any political party with obvious 'we hate Jews' viewpoints in the Western World today.

I'll give you Golden Dawn. That doesn't rule out the rest of the West, only one country in very deep shit.

Don't forget Hungary. If the civilized Greeks could have Golden Dawn as a major party then you really think the American Nazi Party or the British Nazi Party could NEVER acheive small success. Though I can't see any CURRENT chance of that happening.

[Yehuddah]

Everyone seems to forget that all the "Arab Nations" are hostile, racist countries that heavily persecute minorities.

Source this bullshit right now.

Why are you calling the truth bullshit?

[Souseiseki]

Source this bullshit right now.

Why are you calling the truth bullshit?

Why are you responding to a post asking for a source to say "well it's true lol!!!" with no attempt to provide a source?

[Souseiseki]

Please, inform me of any political party with obvious 'we hate Jews' viewpoints in the Western World today.

I'll give you Golden Dawn. That doesn't rule out the rest of the West, only one country in very deep shit.

Don't forget Hungary. If the civilized Greeks could have Golden Dawn as a major party then you really think the American Nazi Party or the British Nazi Party could NEVER acheive small success. Though I can't see any CURRENT chance of that happening.

thanks for bringing up golden dawn so i could get an excuse to post this, they are "ready to open the ovens"

http://www.channel4.com/news/racist-ant ... olden-dawn
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20958353