The Mod-Sanctioned Israel/Palestine thread

[Leningrad Union]

That's why you report it. Let the mods determine that.

But I like trolls

[Harkback Union]

But I like trolls

What is it?

[Charlotte Ryberg]

BBC Source: Israel's ex-PM Ariel Sharon dies
Reuters Source: Former Israeli PM and military commander Ariel Sharon dead at 85

I have been informed that Ariel Sharon has died at the age of 85. He was in my opinion a controversial figure, but he had a lot of strategy in politics, albeit with mixed results in which I can't say one way or another given the tensions between the Israelis and Palestinians, maybe because I am myself trying to my way to bring peace there. Either way, he remains a notable figure in the modern history of Israel and the Palestine, but I find it appropriate to seek other opinions as well.

Important: as a reminder from my Mandela thread, Moderators set out requirements for discussion of a death of a major figure: in this case, Ariel Sharon is a major figure that cannot be ignored:

1. There's nothing to prevent constructive quality discussion about his life and impact on society. Moderators have asked participants to avoid posting along the lines of "Show some respect!".
2. Gloating over his death will be considered trolling.
3. Getting angry over people who disagree with you, particularly with posts along the lines of "You idiots don't realize how great he was!", will also be considered trolling.

As always, debate, discuss, have fun, but don't attack others or gloat.

Moderators will be watching this thread, and if you find anything rule breaking there is a single thread for this at viewtopic.php?f=16&t=279056.

OP edit history: Included link to recently established single moderation reporting thread; Added Reuters news source.

[Estado Paulista]

May he rest in peace.

[Wind in the Willows]

Oh well...

[San]

I can't say his death is surprising.

[Meowfoundland]

I wouldn't say I'm distraught, but he was an important figure in the world and the Middle East in particular. I hope he had a good life.

[Evil the Great]

The world is now a better place. Also, keeping someone artificially alive that long is stupid.

[Independent Canterbury]

Rest in piece.

[Ifreann]

I don't know why, but I thought Ariel Sharon was already dead...

[San]

I don't know why, but I thought Ariel Sharon was already dead...

he may well've been for the past 8 years

[Kemalist]

May he rest in peace.

[Ashmoria]

may he rest in peace.

It creeps me out that they kept him alive all this time. they should have let him go 7 years ago.

[Nervium]

may he rest in peace.

It creeps me out that they kept him alive all this time. they should have let him go 7 years ago.

Idk, something with laws against euthanasia and pulling the plug.

[Rabopari]

good riddance!

[EUstan]

What makes him controversial?

[Kingdom of Israel]

אריאל "אריק" שרון ז"ל
May he rest in peace.

I remember him for saving Israel in 1973, and even though I disagree with his ideology when he was Prime-Minister, it is still a very sad thing he died.

[Rabopari]

אריאל "אריק" שרון ז"ל
May he rest in peace.

I remember him for saving Israel in 1973, and even though I disagree with his ideology when he was Prime-Minister, it is still a very sad thing he died.

its a good day! Rejoice!

[The Alma Mater]

may he rest in peace.

It creeps me out that they kept him alive all this time. they should have let him go 7 years ago.

Some would argue he made the best decisions of his life in the past 7 years.
Still, may the people that loved him not suffer too much from his final passing and find happiness in the near future.

[Kingdom of Israel]

The world is now a better place. Also, keeping someone artificially alive that long is stupid.

You are indeed as evil as your name claims, saying such a thing about a person that just died.
You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Ifreann]

אריאל "אריק" שרון ז"ל
May he rest in peace.

I remember him for saving Israel in 1973, and even though I disagree with his ideology when he was Prime-Minister, it is still a very sad thing he died.

its a good day! Rejoice!

You didn't read the OP, did you?

[Kingdom of Israel]

its a good day! Rejoice!

You didn't read the OP, did you?

This guy is an antisemite Muslim. He read the OP.

[Nervium]

You didn't read the OP, did you?

This guy is an antisemite Muslim.

Hmm.

[Temujinn]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11574000

I have been informed that Ariel Sharon has died at the age of 85. He was in my opinion a controversial figure, but he had a lot of strategy in politics, albeit with mixed results in which I can't say one way or another given the tensions between the Israelis and Palestinians, maybe because I am myself trying to my way to bring peace there. Either way, he remains a notable figure in the modern history of Israel and the Palestine, but I find it appropriate to seek other opinions as well.

Important: as a reminder from my Mandela thread, Moderators set out some requirements for discussion of a death of a major figure: in this case, Ariel Sharon is a major figure that cannot be ignored:

1. There's nothing to prevent constructive quality discussion about his life and impact on society. Moderators have asked participants to avoid posting along the lines of "Show some respect!".
2. Gloating over his death will be considered trolling.
3. Getting angry over people who disagree with you, particularly with posts along the lines of "You idiots don't realize how great he was!", will also be considered trolling.

As always, debate, discuss, have fun, but don't attack others or gloat. Moderators will be watching this thread.

To be more in line with the thread.

WHich the OP directly asks my opinion of the man, I will be happy to oblige.
Gloating over his death, no. Did he deserve death, absolutely. This is my earnest and sincere opinion. He deserved death, and deserved much sooner than it came.
But lets examine this man who not through my own opinion, but through historical FACT earned himself through his own action the infamous nickname "The Butcher of Beirut".

1958 Sharon founded the infamous "Unit 101" Death Squad, Unit 101 under Sharon's direct orders in 1952 committed the famous Qibya massacre. However while the rest of the world admonished Israel for this act and demanded the perpetrators be brought to justice, the Death Squad, Unit 101 was folded into the Israeli Paratroopers, and with in 3 years HSaron was moved to the Brigade Commander for the Paratroopers spot. - Nice.

It should be noted, and is a matter of historical fact-
between 1955 and 1956 Sharon's Paratrooper Unit...comprised almost entirely of former Unit 101 members conducted ILLEGAL raids into Gaza, Egypt, and the West bank in Jordan. These raids while largely lost to history do yield one event that can not be washed away that is the Sharon lead Qalqilya massacre killing 83 people ... in the West Bank, Jordan.

In 1956 During the Joint Task Force invasion of the Suez Canal(Israeli, French, British) Sharon and Egyptian led forces murdered unarmed Egyptian Prisoners of War, and Sudanese Canal Workers... in total 273 unarmed Prisoners were executed... by Sharon and his Cohorts. 1995 London Daily Telegraph


Sharon formed the Rimon Unit in the 1970, significant this Death Squad formation is the first associated with the practice of Israeli Forces being used as false attackers against Israeli Jewish targets to then justify retaliation, along with the standing practice of targeted assassination of Palestinians sans any judicial control, often sans any genuine evidence beyond that of the military actors, chiefly Sharon.

1973 after Charon has left the IDF, and December of that year joins the Knesset, a move which coincided with the Israeli government (with in a dozen days) lifting the ban on sale of West Bank to Israelis. The chief lobbyist for this move was Sahar(former Police Minister, and long time associate of Sharon). The very first "Private" land sale was to a group comprised of Sahar, Gen. Ze'evi, Sharon, Eli Landau, and Avraham Mintz, one of the founders of the fanatic movement Gush Emunim.

In 1974 Sharon lead a group of illegal(according to Israeli Law) settlers to bolster an illegal settlement outpost near the villiage of Nablus, he would continue to sponsor many such incursions violating the peace, the law, and even base morality to in his own words "Judaize the territories".

These actions are not alone and are merely an inkling of the manipulation of occupied territories ambiguous land ownership laws in which Sharon broke even Israeli law to scam and hustle his way to wealth and to further an ethnocentric agenda which does not take the irradiation of an people as being too extreme an option. If need be I can elucidate further on the broader hustle Sharon and his fellows used while manipulating the situation and their own political and military influence in these land grabs however this is all a matter of known public record and anyone can look up the history of it themselves. It is not worthy that JDL and Gush terrorists began aggressive not retaliatory actions against Palestinians once the full push to steal all this land was underway.

Moving along

Sept 15 1982, Sharon earns the moniker "The Butcher of Beirut", when he violates an American brokered cease fire and sends in Israeli troops to surround the refugee camps Sabra and Shatila, with purpose of not allowing anyone out, then utilizing Falangist Militia Death Squads to "purify" the camps...yes. By killing PLO fighters, these PLO bastards were evidently all women, children, and the elderly. It is this act that earned him his rather appropriate nickname.



A Notable addition to the brutal thought process of this man, by Jeffrey Steinberg(must be a self hating Jew right?)writes about how Sharon helped to create the HAMAS embryo as a counter element to the PLO, by empowering Islamists in the West Bank and Gaza, by ensuring that the Licenses released for the building of schools and hospitals and other social work project fell into the hands of Islamists, and in point of fact if one looks at the original granted 800 licenses we see the founders of Hamas to be all there...


Rabin moves towards peace in the 90s, it is infact Sharon(all on the record and public) and the men and organizations associated with West bank/Gaza/Occupied territory land grabs who lead the charge calling Oslo unworkable, Yechial Leiter and Sharon spending weeks touring the US speaking out to Politicians and Jewish American organizations claiming that the only thing standing between an Arab Muslim wave of Death and Israel were the 150k illegal settlers on the land SHaron and his jackals had weaseled from the system, and Rabin was threatening that land grab.

Indeed Sharon turned on Rabin like a rabid dog once it was clear Rabin was in earnest seeking peace and equity in the matter of the Israeli Palestinian issue, in point of fact in October(1993) Sharon delivers a speech calling for the settlers to begin a full resistance movement against Rabin. Over the next few years Sharon raises millions of dollars for Kiryat Arba "resistance" and in 1995 Yigal Amir assassinates Rabin...where is Yigal Amir from? The Kiryat Arba settlement and a member of that resistance movement, which is headed by Yechial Leiter who himself toured the US with Sharon, and called for violent resistance against Rabin's peace movement.


I can go on, and on and on as we have two more decades of Sharon's antics. However, I believe this provides enough historical insight to explain my opinion of the man and his death.
He was a monster, not loyal to his own country, his on countrymen, or the human race, he was an enemy of peace and remained throughout his life an energetic broker of murder.
I believe soundly and with the whole of my being that the world is better off without him, without those like him, and without those who venerate him or more specifically his actions.

It is a pity that his single death could not have come much muc sooner, as it would have clearly saved lives, perhaps thousands of them.


EDIT:
It should be noted that this post is the only post in this thread I endorse from myself.
Moderator action was taken in the thread, and thus i have edited my first post(which was not actionable) to reflect the civilized question of the OP with a civilized response. All of my other posts in this thread reflect the infantile argument that was on going until moderator action was taken.
So please disregard my other posts in this thread for the purposes of discussion.

[Estado Paulista]

You didn't read the OP, did you?

This guy is an antisemite Muslim. He read the OP.

And how did you get to this conclusion, if you don't mind me asking?