Transhumanism

[AETEN II]

The reason why halo is a horrible example of transhumanism however, is that it goes as deep into the philosophy of the subject as Warhammer.

Its not that bad for philosophy actually and indeed there are books on the subject. http://www.amazon.com/Halo-Philosophy-Intellect-Evolved-Popular/dp/0812697189
Dont get me wrong, the book shown is not a masterpeice of philosophy but it does show interesting trends within video games that work their way into mainstream philosophy (with the odd bit of xphi). Although obviously on transhumanism halo is terrible.

That's not canon. I'm talking about stories that delve into the fact that Spartans make great heroes on the battlefield, but aren't the kind of person you'd want to spend any time with due to being raised in an utterly alien environment compared to most humans.

That's a third party book.

[Phocidaea]

I always found it ironic that exactly 100% of known transhumanists are humans...

[The USOT]

I always found it ironic that exactly 100% of known transhumanists are humans...

Either you dont understand irony or dont understand that transhumanists =/= transhumans?

[Phocidaea]

I always found it ironic that exactly 100% of known transhumanists are humans...

Either you dont understand irony or dont understand that transhumanists =/= transhumans?

Well, you'd think if they were so devoted to their cause they would have at least gotten somewhere. And where do you draw the "human" line, anyway?

[The USOT]

Either you dont understand irony or dont understand that transhumanists =/= transhumans?

Well, you'd think if they were so devoted to their cause they would have at least gotten somewhere. And where do you draw the "human" line, anyway?

Ok so you appear to have answered with not understanding irony as your post has nothing to do with irony...

Regardless... we have? Transhumans are merely humans who have been augmented beyond the norm with a function of not neccesarily organic terms (the ideas being divided between organic and artificial augmentations).

A good example of this would be artificial hearts. Whilst not yet stronger than a standard human heart, we have many individuals amongst us who are transhumans in this sense (I come from a line of transhumans in fact ).

In many senses (indeed if we take a more liberal stance) transhumans are almost universal in the western world now. We have used vaccines etc to augment our immune systems into a permanently stronger state than that of our ancestors, augmenting beyond the natural state of the bodies.

So we have gotten pretty damn far. Transhumanists however are those who advocate that this is a good thing OR advocate the discussion and debate around these topics. In my own case for instance I find the emergence of these technologies (e.g. the ability to now buy on markets an artifical eye) something that needs to start being adressed and discussed in the public as one of the issues of our time.

[Curiosityness]

definatley approve

[Olivaero]

I always found it ironic that exactly 100% of known transhumanists are humans...

I always found it funny that exactly 100% of the people in favor of going to mars have never been to mars...

[Mexicanada]

It's kinda strange how there's really only 20 people posting whilst roughly 80 people are just watching us talk... back on topic, though, neuroscience is probably the most transhuman science on Earth, currently. Discuss this statement over whether you agree or not. I persoanlly think it is because it is unlocking parts of our brain that we never even thought were there, before...

[Mexicanada]

definatley approve

Why?

[Kromar]

We are as gods, and we might as well get good at it. I support Transhumanism because I believe that if being human has any intrinsic meaning, it means to be better than nature. It is our manifest destiny to conquer her. We've already enslaved the lower animals of the world, and slaughtered Earth's creatures which displeased us (smallpox, for example). I can think of nothing more human than the struggle to conquer death.

[Phocidaea]

I have come to accept that some improvements from "natural" humans, such as vaccinations and artificial hearts, can be considered "transhumanist" under a very loose definition.

But I maintain my opposition to the hypothetical supplantation of internal mental functions, the excessive use of human genetic modification before more research has been conducted, and the archetypal humanist contempt for all natural functions of the human body.

[The USOT]

I have come to accept that some improvements from "natural" humans, such as vaccinations and artificial hearts, can be considered "transhumanist" under a very loose definition.

But I maintain my opposition to the hypothetical supplantation of internal mental functions, the excessive use of human genetic modification before more research has been conducted, and the archetypal humanist contempt for all natural functions of the human body.

I will be honest in saying most transhumanists have that stance anyway. Except for the last part... there isnt really an archetypical humanist contempt for all natural functions of the human body... humanism doesnt have anything to do with that?

Regardless, I am someone who would wish to replace pretty much everything about myself with mechanical components. I wouldnt DARE do so however if I felt that the components had not been sufficiently tested.

[Rainbows and Rivers]

But I maintain my opposition to the hypothetical supplantation of internal mental functions, the excessive use of human genetic modification before more research has been conducted

As do most transhumanists. Very few of us are eager to cram ourselves full of experimental technology.

[Trotskylvania]

I always found it ironic that exactly 100% of known transhumanists are humans...

Either you dont understand irony or dont understand that transhumanists =/= transhumans?

Besides, transhuman =/= posthuman anyway.

[Trotskylvania]

I think there are some very significant hurdles to a lot of the speculative body modification technologies that transhumanists advocate. Chiefly, trying to justify any sort of clinical trial on humans. Because it would be dangerous, and the pay off in many cases would be quite distant. It's easy to trial things that are designed to replace damaged or missing body parts.

But when you deal with more radical technologies, like prosthetic bodies, cyber brains a la Ghost in the Shell, radical genetic enhancements, brain uploading, etc., the path forward is very murky. The dangers of failure are immense, and it's difficult to find reasons to get people to put their own life on the line to develop or trial such technologies. Because they've gone beyond fixing something broken. They're trying improve something beyond the normal baseline, and there really isn't as much demand for that.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

I think there are some very significant hurdles to a lot of the speculative body modification technologies that transhumanists advocate. Chiefly, trying to justify any sort of clinical trial on humans. Because it would be dangerous, and the pay off in many cases would be quite distant. It's easy to trial things that are designed to replace damaged or missing body parts.

But when you deal with more radical technologies, like prosthetic bodies, cyber brains a la Ghost in the Shell, radical genetic enhancements, brain uploading, etc., the path forward is very murky. The dangers of failure are immense, and it's difficult to find reasons to get people to put their own life on the line to develop or trial such technologies. Because they've gone beyond fixing something broken. They're trying improve something beyond the normal baseline, and there really isn't as much demand for that.

You'd get volunteers for many of those. I know I'd go all out in volunteering for a prosthetic body. I know I'm not entirely alone in my opinion either.

[Olivaero]

I think there are some very significant hurdles to a lot of the speculative body modification technologies that transhumanists advocate. Chiefly, trying to justify any sort of clinical trial on humans. Because it would be dangerous, and the pay off in many cases would be quite distant. It's easy to trial things that are designed to replace damaged or missing body parts.

But when you deal with more radical technologies, like prosthetic bodies, cyber brains a la Ghost in the Shell, radical genetic enhancements, brain uploading, etc., the path forward is very murky. The dangers of failure are immense, and it's difficult to find reasons to get people to put their own life on the line to develop or trial such technologies. Because they've gone beyond fixing something broken. They're trying improve something beyond the normal baseline, and there really isn't as much demand for that.

It is never going to be a thing where in 5 years time sony wheels out its prostetic bodies and is like "Hey everyone download now it's the new american dream!!!"

No it will start with things like implanted communication devices, improved memory storage units and control devices. it will take a while to get to immortality but hopefully within my life time, but by the time we get there, it wont seem nearly as radical as it does now.

[New Naephak]

I can't wait until there's body modding a la the Uglies series. That is some cool shit.

[Trotskylvania]

I think there are some very significant hurdles to a lot of the speculative body modification technologies that transhumanists advocate. Chiefly, trying to justify any sort of clinical trial on humans. Because it would be dangerous, and the pay off in many cases would be quite distant. It's easy to trial things that are designed to replace damaged or missing body parts.

But when you deal with more radical technologies, like prosthetic bodies, cyber brains a la Ghost in the Shell, radical genetic enhancements, brain uploading, etc., the path forward is very murky. The dangers of failure are immense, and it's difficult to find reasons to get people to put their own life on the line to develop or trial such technologies. Because they've gone beyond fixing something broken. They're trying improve something beyond the normal baseline, and there really isn't as much demand for that.

You'd get volunteers for many of those. I know I'd go all out in volunteering for a prosthetic body. I know I'm not entirely alone in my opinion either.

No you won't. If for no other reason than the liability, both civil and criminal, would assure that such a thing wouldn't make it pass institutional review boards until the technology had already been demonstrated to be highly mature and unlikely to be gravely dangerous in humans. Something that, of course, wouldn't be easy to show without experimenting on humans.

Do you see the difficulty? In order to do human experimentation, you have to show that the procedure is beneficial, and has a satisfactory benefit/risk calculus. But to determine that, you need to do human experimentation. But in order to do human experimentation...

I think there are some very significant hurdles to a lot of the speculative body modification technologies that transhumanists advocate. Chiefly, trying to justify any sort of clinical trial on humans. Because it would be dangerous, and the pay off in many cases would be quite distant. It's easy to trial things that are designed to replace damaged or missing body parts.

But when you deal with more radical technologies, like prosthetic bodies, cyber brains a la Ghost in the Shell, radical genetic enhancements, brain uploading, etc., the path forward is very murky. The dangers of failure are immense, and it's difficult to find reasons to get people to put their own life on the line to develop or trial such technologies. Because they've gone beyond fixing something broken. They're trying improve something beyond the normal baseline, and there really isn't as much demand for that.

It is never going to be a thing where in 5 years time sony wheels out its prostetic bodies and is like "Hey everyone download now it's the new american dream!!!"

No it will start with things like implanted communication devices, improved memory storage units and control devices. it will take a while to get to immortality but hopefully within my life time, but by the time we get there, it wont seem nearly as radical as it does now.

And those all have development cycles which will be fraught with difficulty. You're not going to find IRBs that are going to approve implanting devices into people's body as an elective procedure. At best, it will happen as part of prosthetics for people who have been horrifically injured. It will be a very slow process, and for good reason. Mucking around with the human body is dangerous.

[Olivaero]

It is never going to be a thing where in 5 years time sony wheels out its prostetic bodies and is like "Hey everyone download now it's the new american dream!!!"

No it will start with things like implanted communication devices, improved memory storage units and control devices. it will take a while to get to immortality but hopefully within my life time, but by the time we get there, it wont seem nearly as radical as it does now.

And those all have development cycles which will be fraught with difficulty. You're not going to find IRBs that are going to approve implanting devices into people's body as an elective procedure. At best, it will happen as part of prosthetics for people who have been horrifically injured. It will be a very slow process, and for good reason. Mucking around with the human body is dangerous.

Mm, implanting stuff like electrodes is a fairly standard procedure now a days, while I agree the devices themselves are going to have to be tested to destruction I can't imagine it will be much more strenuous than the testing of pharmaceuticals.

And please not another danger argument... Testing airplanes was dangerous too and they weren't necessary with cars and boats existing, it still happened.

[Trotskylvania]

And those all have development cycles which will be fraught with difficulty. You're not going to find IRBs that are going to approve implanting devices into people's body as an elective procedure. At best, it will happen as part of prosthetics for people who have been horrifically injured. It will be a very slow process, and for good reason. Mucking around with the human body is dangerous.

Mm, implanting stuff like electrodes is a fairly standard procedure now a days, while I agree the devices themselves are going to have to be tested to destruction I can't imagine it will be much more strenuous than the testing of pharmaceuticals.

And please not another danger argument... Testing airplanes was dangerous too and they weren't necessary with cars and boats existing, it still happened.

Testing airplanes is in no way analogous. We're talking about what is essentially a medical function, directly affecting the human body. The already existing regulatory safeguards in the form of the clinical testing process assure that the progress will be done in a safe, measured pace.

[Olivaero]

Mm, implanting stuff like electrodes is a fairly standard procedure now a days, while I agree the devices themselves are going to have to be tested to destruction I can't imagine it will be much more strenuous than the testing of pharmaceuticals.

And please not another danger argument... Testing airplanes was dangerous too and they weren't necessary with cars and boats existing, it still happened.

Testing airplanes is in no way analogous. We're talking about what is essentially a medical function, directly affecting the human body. The already existing regulatory safeguards in the form of the clinical testing process assure that the progress will be done in a safe, measured pace.

Yes testing on par with other medical procedures is all well and good, your post seemed to imply more was needed than that... my apologies.

[Xsyne]

Transhumanism is either indistinguishable from tool use, in which case it is an utterly worthless word and has no need to exist as an independent concept, or it's insipid skiffy bullshit espoused by people who don't know the faintest fucking thing about computing, the mind, information storage, biology, mathematics, c, and a couple thousand other things.

Ah, so you're going to tell me - someone who makes a living working with, maintaining, deploying, and administering workstations and servers in high-stake healthcare environments where patient lives depend on me not screwing up - that I "don't know the faintest fucking thing about computing"?

Depends. Are you espousing the skiffy shit? Then yes, you pretty clearly don't know what you're talking about.

[Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen]

I think there are some very significant hurdles to a lot of the speculative body modification technologies that transhumanists advocate. Chiefly, trying to justify any sort of clinical trial on humans. Because it would be dangerous, and the pay off in many cases would be quite distant. It's easy to trial things that are designed to replace damaged or missing body parts.

But when you deal with more radical technologies, like prosthetic bodies, cyber brains a la Ghost in the Shell, radical genetic enhancements, brain uploading, etc., the path forward is very murky. The dangers of failure are immense, and it's difficult to find reasons to get people to put their own life on the line to develop or trial such technologies. Because they've gone beyond fixing something broken. They're trying improve something beyond the normal baseline, and there really isn't as much demand for that.

Why do you think that the people making prosthetics for the disabled won't give them abilities beyond the human baseline? My hearing aids, for example, give me hearing that is in many ways superior to baseline hearing.

The companies making medical prostheses will continue improving them until, one day, people with no medical need will start wanting them because the prosthetics are so good that the benefits outweigh the risks. Maybe you'll have a strongman who wants unbreakable bones, or a long-distance runner who wants artificial lungs, or a musician that wants to extend his music into ranges beyond normal hearing. When healthy people start getting implants and prosthetics, they won't get things intended to augment regular people; they'll get things intended to help the disabled, but which perform on a level beyond the human norm.

[Zeoz]

I am for it. Simple.