The best alternative fuel

[Big Jim P]

hamster wheels

Giant hamster wheels employing otherwise useless humans.

[Big Jim P]

Forcing increased bacon production.



I approve.

That would add insult to injury to many OPEC countries. Therefore it has my seal of approval.

I'll add my approval as well.

[Immoren]

Idealism. There seems to be an endless supply of it, and the only pollution it generates is hot air.

Hot air which we can use to drive turbines to generate electricity.

You'd prefer saturated steam to hot air.

[Big Jim P]

Hot air which we can use to drive turbines to generate electricity.

You'd prefer saturated steam to hot air.

You have to generate steam though. Hot air is self-generating.

[Democratic Koyro]

hamster wheels

Giant hamster wheels employing otherwise useless humans.

I approve. Maybe we can use it to train athletes or something, or give athletes something to do !

[Risottia]

As for combustion engines, I'd vote for methane and ethanol.
Electric motors are way more efficient, but there's the problem with a) charging stations and b) cold.

For the next future, I'd go for a hybrid Diesel-cycle methane-fueled engine and a full electric transmission, with synchronous engines directly on the axles and electronic traction control.

[YellowApple]

In the short term, hydrogen's probably the best bet. There's a shit-ton of it in the universe.

Long-term, I look forward to the day when nuclear fusion is not only a viable source of continuous electrical power, but is sufficiently miniaturized to fit in an automobile. Granted, that'll probably take a couple centuries, but it would be pretty damn clean. Besides, it also uses hydrogen, of which there is a shit-ton in the universe.

Ultra-long term, though, I vote for singularity engines. Because SMAC FTW.

[Cameroi]

"fuel" is thinking inside a box that isn't there. the best alternative is to collect energy that is already in the form of energy, rather then to convert matter into it.
there are many ways of doing this. they are simply less amenable to centralized control.
the only reason the box of fuel is there, is because thinking confined by it makes possible energy monopolies and centralization, which panders to greed.

[DogDoo 7]

Apparently they take less time to install and are cheaper then traditional solar roof panels.
Not to mention that they far less ugly.

I think traditional panels look pretty awesome, but I grew up with them all over the place (mandated by the government since the 50's)

Those are solar thermal heaters, not PV arrays. (but I agree, it's nice to have free hot water 9 months of the year).

[DogDoo 7]

Biofuels, assuming we can get them from sources that don't effect our food supply

I am curious. Why do you think that biofuels would be better than hydrogen, electricity, compressed air, liquid nitrogen, or synthetic petrol or diesel?

Because algae are really good at growing?

[Vitaphone Racing]

Solar Shingles!
(Image)

Isn't this about cars?

Anyway, the best of your solar panels get 2kw or so per square metre on average. If you have a large car, you might get a two metres square space if you cover every panel lying sort of parallel to the horizon. That's 4kw. A Toyota Camry (a slow, heavy, applicance) requires 120kw to acheive lacklusture performance.

Solar panels for cars are a bad idea if you're in a hurry or like to drive at night.

[Vitaphone Racing]

I am curious. Why do you think that biofuels would be better than hydrogen, electricity, compressed air, liquid nitrogen, or synthetic petrol or diesel?

Because algae are really good at growing?

Don't hold your breath waiting for it though (nobody can hold their breath for two decades).

By the time algae fuel becomes relevant and practical, other solutions will have been well developed.

[Wikipedia and Universe]

The problem with electric cars is that electricity is only as green as the plant that generates it. If you live in a nuclear town, that's great, but a large portion, if not most, of the population (in the United States, at least) lives in areas powered by coal-fired power plants. Also, as the OP mentioned, electric cars tend to present increased safety hazards for rescuers in traffic collisions.

I'm basically right with the OP on hydrogen, except I favor a more distributed generation-type concept where the filling stations are miniature hydrogen production plants, though I'm sure more centralized hydrogen production will be of some use. The reason I favor on-site hydrogen production is that with transport by trucks and even pipelines, hydrogen can seep from its container at a rate that, IIRC, is essentially a non-issue for short trips, but can be uneconomical for long journeys. Even if seepage is not considered a major issue even for long-haul hydrogen transport, there's also the issue of hydrogen embrittlement. How I see on-site hydrogen production working is that the production plant would be located below ground with the pumps, roof, point of service/shop, etc. located above ground, as with any other conventional filling station.

On a semi-related note, another advantage of hydrogen is that it can be used as jet fuel, which electricity cannot, as true jet engines require combustion in order to work. This means more environmentally friendly air travel can become a real possibility without necessitating a reversion to all prop-powered aircraft.

[Vitaphone Racing]

The problem with electric cars is that electricity is only as green as the plant that generates it. If you live in a nuclear town, that's great, but a large portion, if not most, of the population (in the United States, at least) lives in areas

Unless you plan on combusting the hydrogen (which is dumb on so many levels) the same dangers posed by crashed electric cars will be present in hydrogen cars. There is still an electric transmission and most likely a battery pack.

[AETEN II]

Electricity is technically not a green fuel, as the electricity needs to come from somewhere.

Well, if somebody ever manages to get an industrial fusion reactor running, I'd say the energy would be as close to green as possible.

[Immoren]

[Tubbsalot]

On a semi-related note, another advantage of hydrogen is that it can be used as jet fuel, which electricity cannot, as true jet engines require combustion in order to work. This means more environmentally friendly air travel can become a real possibility without necessitating a reversion to all prop-powered aircraft.

Jet fuel criteria amount to more than just "something to burn." Hydrogen wouldn't work much better than newspaper in a jet. Carbon-based fuels are perfectly acceptable as long as the production and consumption are net carbon neutral.

Well, if somebody ever manages to get an industrial fusion reactor running, I'd say the energy would be as close to green as possible.

And if anyone ever manages to produce energy by using aura crystals to harvest the resonance from ley lines, that'd be nice as well, but it's entirely theoretical and we can't just assume it'll happen.

[AETEN II]

On a semi-related note, another advantage of hydrogen is that it can be used as jet fuel, which electricity cannot, as true jet engines require combustion in order to work. This means more environmentally friendly air travel can become a real possibility without necessitating a reversion to all prop-powered aircraft.

Jet fuel criteria amount to more than just "something to burn." Hydrogen wouldn't work much better than newspaper in a jet. Carbon-based fuels are perfectly acceptable as long as the production and consumption are net carbon neutral.

Well, if somebody ever manages to get an industrial fusion reactor running, I'd say the energy would be as close to green as possible.

And if anyone ever manages to produce energy by using aura crystals to harvest the resonance from ley lines, that'd be nice as well, but it's entirely theoretical and we can't just assume it'll happen.

The difference being that fusion reactors are completely possible, and there's several teams of scientists with numerous resources available to them, trying to make one. Because if it works, goddamn we'll be set for energy.

[Diopolis]

Small controlled quantum singularities.

this

[Wikipedia and Universe]

The problem with electric cars is that electricity is only as green as the plant that generates it. If you live in a nuclear town, that's great, but a large portion, if not most, of the population (in the United States, at least) lives in areas

Unless you plan on combusting the hydrogen (which is dumb on so many levels) the same dangers posed by crashed electric cars will be present in hydrogen cars. There is still an electric transmission and most likely a battery pack.

1. I think you might have quoted the wrong section of my post there.
2. As for the point you do appear to be addressing, I got that mostly from the OP, so I suggest grilling Screensaver on that one, lol.

[Kilobugya]

You're confounding two things in that poll : energy production and energy storage/distribution. H2, compressed air, electricity are not energy source, they are a way of storing/distributing energy produced somewhere. Biofuels on the other end are more an energy source (indirect solar energy), comparable to solar panels. H2 produced from nuclear plants and H2 produced from burning fossil fuels don't have much in common in term of environmental or economical impact.

[Wikkiwallana]

How, exactly, does one use liquid nitrogen as a fuel?

[Big Jim P]

The problem with electric cars is that electricity is only as green as the plant that generates it. If you live in a nuclear town, that's great, but a large portion, if not most, of the population (in the United States, at least) lives in areas

Unless you plan on combusting the hydrogen (which is dumb on so many levels) the same dangers posed by crashed electric cars will be present in hydrogen cars. There is still an electric transmission and most likely a battery pack.

Why is combusting hydrogen dumb? I am assuming you mean using it as we use gasoline, in an internal combustion engine. That produces water vapor for exhaust. In fact, the only downside I can think of is a lack of energy density in hydrogen fuel.

[Big Jim P]

How, exactly, does one use liquid nitrogen as a fuel?

You atomize it, mix it with oxygen and burn it.

I know, I know. *grin*

[Big Jim P]

Small controlled quantum singularities.

this

Singularities (quantum or otherwise) are by definition as small as you can get.