What is Rape?

[Condunum]

It... Doesn't really even need to be forced.

It could be coerced, it could be extorted, it could be anything.

Also, you will still be raped if the rapist jams a dildo into your ass or if you were forced to give a girl oral or if a guy sticks his fingers into a girl's vagina, under the current FBI legal definition if I remember correctly.

Yeah, this.

[Individuality-ness]

There is a very fine line between seduction and rape.

Uh, no. Unless it's a BDSM rape fantasy scenario where all parties involved have given consent and safewords in place of the word "no", if your partner says "no", it ALWAYS means no.

[Des-Bal]

And that's the failing of our legal system and our society at large by trying to break things down into semantics. If somebody mentions that an act which is unwanted sexual contact is not rape because "it's not the legal definition", then by extension that's societal molestation of the victim after the fact.

I don't recognize that as a problem of the legal system. Corpus Delicti requires that to be charged with a crime an individual must have done something that meets every requirement of the crime. It's not an issue of "semantics" or technicalities that a person can't be charged with a crime they didn't commit. I recognize the need to have sympathy for victims of traumatic crimes but I reject the notion that playing towards soothing their wounds justifies rule by fiat.

[Curiosityness]

well I'm pretty sure when she says no...it means no so stopping at the first lick of resistance might be a good idea

[Queen Julia Claire the Third]

As a woman this scared me beyond belief. Any woman who is says no when she means Yes is stupid and any man who continues after a woman says no is repulsive. I am glad, however, with the amount of negative responses from men. It gives me hope that the majority of men out there are not as sick and twisted and the one who originally made this forum.

[Ifreann]

We're not having a discussion about vehicular homicide. They are absolutely different things and that's why I've ignored his attempts to drag me down different irrelevant hypothetical scenarios. He's saying it is rape whereas you said it is not in terms more eloquent then I have the patience for at this hour.

I mean, here's the thing. Threads like this tend to seem to me too cute by half. A sort of "OK, but what if she only had three beers, but we're in the alps, and the air is REALLY thin, and also, she's just gotten over a bad cold, and she's probably not drunk, but is sluring her words a bit, but she had a stroke last year so that can be it, and I'm pretty sure she said "fuck me hard you big stud" but may have been "can you pass the salt?" is it rape then huh? HUH????"

This is why we have juries.

People trying to find loopholes for raping someone like this is why we should have brain bleach.

[Northern Dominus]

And that's the failing of our legal system and our society at large by trying to break things down into semantics. If somebody mentions that an act which is unwanted sexual contact is not rape because "it's not the legal definition", then by extension that's societal molestation of the victim after the fact.

I don't recognize that as a problem of the legal system. Corpus Delicti requires that to be charged with a crime an individual must have done something that meets every requirement of the crime. It's not an issue of "semantics" or technicalities that a person can't be charged with a crime they didn't commit. I recognize the need to have sympathy for victims of traumatic crimes but I reject the notion that playing towards soothing their wounds justifies rule by fiat.

Except our notions of the aformentioned crime are still lacking behind modern insight into psychology, especially PTSD.

I'm in no way suggesting that the rule of law or corpus delecti be suspended, but like a lot of laws in this country it has to be updated reflecting current psychological and physiological standards as well as technical advancements like DNA collection.

[Des-Bal]

People trying to find loopholes for raping someone like this is why we should have brain bleach.

Whose trying to find loopholes? I'm trying to specify what is and is not rape.

[Des-Bal]

Except our notions of the aformentioned crime are still lacking behind modern insight into psychology, especially PTSD.

I'm in no way suggesting that the rule of law or corpus delecti be suspended, but like a lot of laws in this country it has to be updated reflecting current psychological and physiological standards as well as technical advancements like DNA collection.

Emotional distress absolutely is considered in sentencing but it's not grounds to charge someone with a higher crime. If you're arguing that we still need to recognize crimes by a series of concrete criteria then what is it you're actually arguing should be done.

[Northern Dominus]

People trying to find loopholes for raping someone like this is why we should have brain bleach.

Whose trying to find loopholes? I'm trying to specify what is and is not rape.

The OP. Look at the original post, if that isn't probing for some sort of loophole then I dunno what is.

Except our notions of the aformentioned crime are still lacking behind modern insight into psychology, especially PTSD.

I'm in no way suggesting that the rule of law or corpus delecti be suspended, but like a lot of laws in this country it has to be updated reflecting current psychological and physiological standards as well as technical advancements like DNA collection.

Emotional distress absolutely is considered in sentencing but it's not grounds to charge someone with a higher crime. If you're arguing that we still need to recognize crimes by a series of concrete criteria then what is it you're actually arguing should be done.

It's not "emotional distress" that victims of sexual abuse receive, it's full-blown psychological trauma. Take something which is supposed to be fully voluntary and pleasurable and have it basically turned into a weapon against you and then you have an idea of the scope of what sexual assault really entails.
The fact that such psychological trauma isn't reflected in the legal system is a severe lacking on the part of the legal system, as I mentioend earlier. Yes corpus delecti needs to be enforced as much as possible, but once enforced the guilty party then shouldn't be given leniency because the act was "over the clothes" or "non penetrative", or any other bullshit excuse possible.

[Des-Bal]

The OP. Look at the original post, if that isn't probing for some sort of loophole then I dunno what is.

It's not "emotional distress" that victims of sexual abuse receive, it's full-blown psychological trauma. Take something which is supposed to be fully voluntary and pleasurable and have it basically turned into a weapon against you and then you have an idea of the scope of what sexual assault really entails.
The fact that such psychological trauma isn't reflected in the legal system is a severe lacking on the part of the legal system, as I mentioend earlier. Yes corpus delecti needs to be enforced as much as possible, but once enforced the guilty party then shouldn't be given leniency because the act was "over the clothes" or "non penetrative", or any other bullshit excuse possible.

He is I'm not. Given that the quote referenced included one of my posts I wanted to know if he was making accusations about me.

In some cases it is. Emotional distress is a continuum.


It. Is. If the sex was nonpenetrative then it legally wasn't rape. They haven't done the actual crime. Corpus Delicti was not met. The reason they receive a lesser sentence isn't leniency it's the fact that they committed a lesser crime.

[Northern Dominus]

The OP. Look at the original post, if that isn't probing for some sort of loophole then I dunno what is.

It's not "emotional distress" that victims of sexual abuse receive, it's full-blown psychological trauma. Take something which is supposed to be fully voluntary and pleasurable and have it basically turned into a weapon against you and then you have an idea of the scope of what sexual assault really entails.
The fact that such psychological trauma isn't reflected in the legal system is a severe lacking on the part of the legal system, as I mentioend earlier. Yes corpus delecti needs to be enforced as much as possible, but once enforced the guilty party then shouldn't be given leniency because the act was "over the clothes" or "non penetrative", or any other bullshit excuse possible.

He is I'm not. Given that the quote referenced included one of my posts I wanted to know if he was making accusations about me.

In some cases it is. Emotional distress is a continuum.


It. Is. If the sex was nonpenetrative then it legally wasn't rape. They haven't done the actual crime. Corpus Delicti was not met. The reason they receive a lesser sentence isn't leniency it's the fact that they committed a lesser crime.

There's "lesser" and then there's negligently under-punished. Again, given what we know about psychological trauma, surely the sexual assault crimes should receive a revamp of some sort to reflect that, should they not?

[Northern Skatchbrod]

A rape in modern nations is surprisingly often a woman regretting having sex with a man, and telling everyone he raped him.

A whole other thing in developing countries.

[Individuality-ness]

A rape in modern nations is surprisingly often a woman regretting having sex with a man, and telling everyone he raped him.

A whole other thing in developing countries.

No. Don't make stupid assumptions.

[Northern Skatchbrod]

A rape in modern nations is surprisingly often a woman regretting having sex with a man, and telling everyone he raped him.

A whole other thing in developing countries.

No. Don't make stupid assumptions.

Personal experience is a bitch.

[Individuality-ness]

No. Don't make stupid assumptions.

Personal experience is a bitch.

That's nice dear, but false rape accusations only make up 2-7% of total reported cases.

[Tsuntion]

A rape in modern nations is surprisingly often a woman regretting having sex with a man, and telling everyone he raped him.

Source, please, and not an anecdote.

[Northern Skatchbrod]

Personal experience is a bitch.

That's nice dear, but false rape accusations only make up 2-7% of total reported cases.

And that's too much. Whatever you liberal mind tells you, the thing is that when women accuse men of rape, the men are widely discriminated against in the justice system.

[The Steel Magnolia]

No. Don't make stupid assumptions.

Personal experience is a bitch.

Or, you know, it's entirely possible that depending on what happened you're actually a rapist.

Hurts, doesn't it? I imagine she's hurt significantly more.

I say this because apparently people think rape isn't rape.

Also anecdotes are worthless.

[Northern Dominus]

No. Don't make stupid assumptions.

Personal experience is a bitch.

Well then at the very least you've fallen into the trap of confirmation bias. Just because it allegedly happened to you (which given there's no way to confirm that it happened in just the manner you said and "no" wasn't uttered is correct) does not mean that a large percentage of women who file rape reports in developed nations are doing the same. Your anecdote is not gospel regarless of its veracity.

[Northern Skatchbrod]

Personal experience is a bitch.

Well then at the very least you've fallen into the trap of confirmation bias. Just because it allegedly happened to you (which given there's no way to confirm that it happened in just the manner you said and "no" wasn't uttered is correct) does not mean that a large percentage of women who file rape reports in developed nations are doing the same. Your anecdote is not gospel regarless of its veracity.

Didn't happen to me, but I saw an unlucky guy at a party who was seduced to have sex, and in a week was accused of rape. He's now in jail.

[Northern Skatchbrod]

Personal experience is a bitch.

Or, you know, it's entirely possible that depending on what happened you're actually a rapist.

Hurts, doesn't it? I imagine she's hurt significantly more.

I say this because apparently people think rape isn't rape.

Also anecdotes are worthless.

Read what I said to the another person.

[Northern Dominus]

Well then at the very least you've fallen into the trap of confirmation bias. Just because it allegedly happened to you (which given there's no way to confirm that it happened in just the manner you said and "no" wasn't uttered is correct) does not mean that a large percentage of women who file rape reports in developed nations are doing the same. Your anecdote is not gospel regarless of its veracity.

Didn't happen to me, but I saw an unlucky guy at a party who was seduced to have sex, and in a week was accused of rape. He's now in jail.

And what side did you get? His? Ever think he might have a bit of bias? Were you a prosecutor? Police officer? Medical professional? Linked at all to the case besides "at a party with this guy"?

And what if he did in fact rape that woman, what if "no" was uttered and he pressed on against her wishes? How do you know ANY of it beyond what this alleged victim of false reporting said?

[Individuality-ness]

That's nice dear, but false rape accusations only make up 2-7% of total reported cases.

And that's too much. Whatever you liberal mind tells you, the thing is that when women accuse men of rape, the men are widely discriminated against in the justice system.

Yeah... no.

[Northern Skatchbrod]

Didn't happen to me, but I saw an unlucky guy at a party who was seduced to have sex, and in a week was accused of rape. He's now in jail.

And what side did you get? His? Ever think he might have a bit of bias? Were you a prosecutor? Police officer? Medical professional? Linked at all to the case besides "at a party with this guy"?

And what if he did in fact rape that woman, what if "no" was uttered and he pressed on against her wishes? How do you know ANY of it beyond what this alleged victim of false reporting said?

I was next to him when he went in, and I've known him for his whole life. He's a law-abiding citizen. A weak and stuttering young guy. The woman was a local girl who's had sex with almost everyone in town.