What is Rape?

[Esternial]

Let me get this right: You're comparing a definition by the Strafgesetzbuch to this?

Yes.

And why would that definition be wrong, exactly?

[Yunaza Tao]

So there's nothing wrong in your opinion with having sex with a completely wasted person?

That is one of the dangers of getting completely wasted. If she was dumb enough to get that drunk in the first place, why waste the time of day?

'

1) She, like any other person, should be able to go to a party or go out in public without worrying about getting abused and used as somebody else's sex toy.

2) Alcohol is stupid. That doesn't mean the people who use it should lose all their humanity and be regarded as objects of other people's sick fantasies.

3) Hey. Guess what? Maybe, just maybe, she didn't intend to get 'completely wasted'. And even if she did, that isn't any type of indicator that says "I want to have sex with you." Maybe she did it because she had a bad day and couldn't stop. Maybe her friends pressured her to drink. Maybe it was her first time drinking and she went too far. Maybe she just wanted to loosen up at a party but loosened up too much.

The only time when it's consensual is when she makes it obviously clear that she consents. Otherwise assume she doesn't

[Esternial]

That is one of the dangers of getting completely wasted. If she was dumb enough to get that drunk in the first place, why waste the time of day?

'

1) She, like any other person, should be able to go to a party or go out in public without worrying about getting abused and used as somebody else's sex toy.

2) Alcohol is stupid. That doesn't mean the people who use it should lose all their humanity and be regarded as objects of other people's sick fantasies.

3) Hey. Guess what? Maybe, just maybe, she didn't intend to get 'completely wasted'. And even if she did, that isn't any type of indicator that says "I want to have sex with you." Maybe she did it because she had a bad day and couldn't stop. Maybe her friends pressured her to drink. Maybe it was her first time drinking and she went too far. Maybe she just wanted to loosen up at a party but loosened up too much.

The only time when it's consensual is when she makes it obviously clear that she consents. Otherwise assume she doesn't

A no you have, a yes you can get.

It doesn't work the other way around.

[Des-Bal]

And why would that definition be wrong, exactly?

The part where it includes nonpenetrative acts as rape.

[Mavorpen]

That's kind of like saying a triangle has thee sides unless it has four. It's not frottage if it's not consensual.
And who's dictionary is that? Wiki says no such thing:

That's because the APA is filled with shit.

I would LOVE to see your credentials.

[Hornesia]

When a woman says no, should a man instantly stop and back off? I think no, because doing so is unsexy and women like to be chased -- you aren't going to get laid very often if you stop at the first lick of resistance.

According to the law, when you don't stop when your partner said you do, its sexual assault. ONLY YES MEANS YES.Being drunk doesn't count.

How 'bout being unconscious?

[Esternial]

And why would that definition be wrong, exactly?

The part where it includes nonpenetrative acts as rape.

It's still sexual assault, which is just as bad as rape.

[Al Horeya]

Guys, sex really isn't that hard. Honestly. The "if she says no" question was just silly. If she says no, and pushes you away, then just get the fuck off of her! Why...why would you think anything else?
The only almost iffy question was the one about drinking, but then you used the word "inebriated." If she's only had a martini or something, no big deal, all her mental faculties are there. If you get a girl who can hardly walk and you take advantage of that, then FUCK YOU, IT'S RAPE!!! If you were both drunk when you screwed, then I guess you raped eachother, which... balances out? Idk. Better advice is just not to get that drunk. Wouldn't that be easier?
I'm a male, btw, and a conservative one at that. This shouldn't be a Conservative-Liberal issue, a Republican-Democrat issue, a Men-Women issue, or anything like that. Just as the sky is blue, non-consensual sex is rape.

[Des-Bal]

It's still sexual assault, which is just as bad as rape.

I disagree.

[Esternial]

It's still sexual assault, which is just as bad as rape.

I disagree.

Any reason for disagreeing?

[Zottistan]

You neatly ignored my request for a source for your claim that rape requires penetration, so it's quite arguable.

No I didn't I told you dictionary.com agreed but that there wasn't a consensus.

If you'd like another Florida law holds that

...“Sexual battery” means oral, anal, or vaginal penetration by, or union with, the sexual organ of another or the anal or vaginal penetration of another by any other object...

Many other states are of the same opinion and in some cases only highly publicized cases of women being forced to preform oral sex at gunpoint and the offenders being charged with misdemeanors that got oral added to the definitions.

Sexual battery and rape aren't the same words. And since you actually agree that there is no consensus, any argument you make based on definition is an argument from authority and a logical fallacy.

[Des-Bal]

Any reason for disagreeing?

I believe it's wrong? Frotteurism generally involves at least one persons genitals being touched but it doesn't have to. If someone with the rather boring fetish of rubbing his elbows on a nonconsenting persons back and does just that it is not rape and it is not nearly as bad as rape.

[Mavorpen]

No I didn't I told you dictionary.com agreed but that there wasn't a consensus.

If you'd like another Florida law holds that Many other states are of the same opinion and in some cases only highly publicized cases of women being forced to preform oral sex at gunpoint and the offenders being charged with misdemeanors that got oral added to the definitions.

Sexual battery and rape aren't the same words. And since you actually agree that there is no consensus, any argument you make based on definition is an argument from authority and a logical fallacy.

You expect intellectual honesty on NSG?

[Czechanada]

No I didn't I told you dictionary.com agreed but that there wasn't a consensus.

If you'd like another Florida law holds that Many other states are of the same opinion and in some cases only highly publicized cases of women being forced to preform oral sex at gunpoint and the offenders being charged with misdemeanors that got oral added to the definitions.

Sexual battery and rape aren't the same words. And since you actually agree that there is no consensus, any argument you make based on definition is an argument from authority and a logical fallacy.

Sexual battery?

So that's what the Energizer Bunny is really powered by!

[Des-Bal]

Sexual battery and rape aren't the same words. And since you actually agree that there is no consensus, any argument you make based on definition is an argument from authority and a logical fallacy.

Actually they are in this case. "Sexual Battery" is what Florida uses to describe rape, I don't know why.

I'm aware, I said there was no consensus and then immediately said "so I won't pursue that"

[Esternial]

Any reason for disagreeing?

I believe it's wrong? Frotteurism generally involves at least one persons genitals being touched but it doesn't have to. If someone with the rather boring fetish of rubbing his elbows on a nonconsenting persons back and does just that it is not rape and it is not nearly as bad as rape.

That's the one end of the spectrum. Acts off frotteurism can be very diverse, but most do fall within the category of sexual assault, even if only the milder cases of sexual assault.

[Zottistan]

Sexual battery and rape aren't the same words. And since you actually agree that there is no consensus, any argument you make based on definition is an argument from authority and a logical fallacy.

You expect intellectual honesty on NSG?

You, you may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

[Des-Bal]

That's the one end of the spectrum. Acts off frotteurism can be very diverse, but most do fall within the category of sexual assault, even if only the milder cases of sexual assault.

But that elbow rubbing is as bad as rape right?

[Zottistan]

Sexual battery and rape aren't the same words. And since you actually agree that there is no consensus, any argument you make based on definition is an argument from authority and a logical fallacy.

Actually they are in this case. "Sexual Battery" is what Florida uses to describe rape, I don't know why.

I'm aware, I said there was no consensus and then immediately said "so I won't pursue that"

It's not the same word, so it's not the same thing. For all I know, sexual battery could only include certain types of rape.
If you're aware that your argument is logically unsound, why do you keep making it?

[Esternial]

That's the one end of the spectrum. Acts off frotteurism can be very diverse, but most do fall within the category of sexual assault, even if only the milder cases of sexual assault.

But that elbow rubbing is as bad as rape right?

No. In my posts I was referring as the more extreme acts. I'd consider elbow rubbing more like harassment than sexual assault, which isn't as bad as rape but still not excusable.

Rubbing your dick against someone on the train, on the other hand, is sexual assault.

On the other hand, if you're rubbing your elbow in someone's crotch that could still be considered sexual assault.

[Des-Bal]

It's not the same word, so it's not the same thing. For all I know, sexual battery could only include certain types of rape.
If you're aware that your argument is logically unsound, why do you keep making it?

That's not how synonyms work.

[Zottistan]

It's not the same word, so it's not the same thing. For all I know, sexual battery could only include certain types of rape.
If you're aware that your argument is logically unsound, why do you keep making it?

That's not how synonyms work.

Does it actually say anywhere that "sexual battery" in that context is synonymous with "rape"? Because otherwise, I'm going to go ahead
and assume they're not.

[Puah-Puah Kepulauan]

That's the one end of the spectrum. Acts off frotteurism can be very diverse, but most do fall within the category of sexual assault, even if only the milder cases of sexual assault.

But that elbow rubbing is as bad as rape right?

In disregard of any laws and judicial definitions, it depends on the offender's intentions and especially on the victim's perception. Depending on a person's mind and attitude, one person can feel raped because of things others would consider as sexual assault or even not notice at all.

[Des-Bal]

Does it actually say anywhere that "sexual battery" in that context is synonymous with "rape"? Because otherwise, I'm going to go ahead
and assume they're not.

Florida statute doesn't use the word rape.

[Zottistan]

Does it actually say anywhere that "sexual battery" in that context is synonymous with "rape"? Because otherwise, I'm going to go ahead
and assume they're not.

Florida statute doesn't use the word rape.

But do you have any actual evidence that the two are synonyms?