What is Rape?

[Individuality-ness]

But that means that they have to stand there waiting for the whole the "I do not consent to <x>" list to completely scroll up to figure out whether I'm okay with it or not!!! *flails*

I took one look at this and thought 'O(n)...but it could be improved by using a dynamic array and contains()'...further proof that algorithms and data structures have eaten my brain. >.>

[Des-Bal]

I did not say that. I said the opposite. I have specified that I never said that. I cannot make it any clearer that I am not saying that. You're being willfully ignorant and you're trying to use me as a surrogate for someone else you disagree with.

Yes. I'm saying that the absence of consent is not sufficient, there must be an expressed desire.

That isn't saying or implying that they default to yes. I'm saying that the absence of consent isn't what makes it rape.

[Des-Bal]

Dude, you're arguing that you didn't say things that we have quotes for you saying. They've been provided.

No.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

A person is drugged and someone forces sexual intercourse while she was unconscious. Is this rape?

No.

You mentioned when you first posted this idea that "the evidence" had changed your mind.

Can we please see the evidence that it's not rape if you don't say no because you can't?

[The Emerald Dawn]

I mean, clearly, if you weren't screaming, you weren't rape. Obviously.

And what kind of careless whore lets herself sleep? Back when I were a lad, people had more self-respect and stayed awake 24/7 to ensure that they were definitely being raped when they were attacked rather than not-raped-because-they-didn't-say-no-because-they-were-asleep-and-consequently-couldn't-say-no.

I wonder if my assault will qualify? I mean, I was conscious, but I was not physically fighting off the ROTC-trained fellow assaulting me. I protested, but I didn't scream, or even raise my voice much. I was mostly shocked and frozen, as a person I thought was my friend (who I had invited into my place) pinned me down and overpowered me.

Maybe mine qualifies as a sorta-rape? Well, regardless, I'm sure Des-Bal will tell me how traumatized I was, thank heavens! I certainly wouldn't know, and would have no way of communicating my thoughts on the subject, without someone like him around to tell it like it is!

Bottle, as a member of the member-having portion of humanity, and as recognition to your decades of glorious service to the member-having portion of humanity, I am willing to upgrade it to a Demi-Rape.

Sign here please.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Dude, you're arguing that you didn't say things that we have quotes for you saying. They've been provided.

No.

Wow. What a great argument. It's almost as if you realize that you're wrong and just won't admit it.

[Individuality-ness]

That isn't saying or implying that they default to yes. I'm saying that the absence of consent isn't what makes it rape.

Yes it does imply that you think the default is yes. Be intellectually honest for once.

[Des-Bal]

Calling certain rapes something other than rape does not mean that they aren't rapes. There's some 60+ pages of argument that any sex without consent is rape. Do you have anything to counter that beyond what amounts to "Nuh-uh"?

I don't really need one given that those 60+ pages are
1. Filled with people who have similar or more radical ideas of what constitutes rape than I do.
2. Substantiated by no more than the assertion "Yuh-huh"
3. Really not relevant.

[Des-Bal]

That isn't saying or implying that they default to yes. I'm saying that the absence of consent isn't what makes it rape.

Yes it does imply that you think the default is yes. Be intellectually honest for once.

No it doesn't. Intercourse in the absence of consent is clearly a crime it is not however rape.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

2. Substantiated by no more than the assertion "Yuh-huh"

Dear God, the irony.

Yes it does imply that you think the default is yes. Be intellectually honest for once.

No it doesn't. Intercourse in the absence of consent is clearly a crime it is not however rape.

[citation needed]

Can we see the sources that you said convinced you, please?

[Bottle]

I wonder if my assault will qualify? I mean, I was conscious, but I was not physically fighting off the ROTC-trained fellow assaulting me. I protested, but I didn't scream, or even raise my voice much. I was mostly shocked and frozen, as a person I thought was my friend (who I had invited into my place) pinned me down and overpowered me.

Maybe mine qualifies as a sorta-rape? Well, regardless, I'm sure Des-Bal will tell me how traumatized I was, thank heavens! I certainly wouldn't know, and would have no way of communicating my thoughts on the subject, without someone like him around to tell it like it is!

Bottle, as a member of the member-having portion of humanity, and as recognition to your decades of glorious service to the member-having portion of humanity, I am willing to upgrade it to a Demi-Rape.

Sign here please.

Hmm, does this mean I'm entitled to only half the amount of criticism of my personal choices and sex life to which most rape victims are subjected? Because I wouldn't want to miss out on any of that. I mean, that's most of the reason we womenfolks get ourselves raped, after all...the great attention that one enjoys as a rape victim!

[Neo Art]

Yes it does imply that you think the default is yes. Be intellectually honest for once.

No it doesn't. Intercourse in the absence of consent is clearly a crime it is not however rape.

Except...it is.

I mean, for the most part, that's pretty definitionally exactly what it is.

Really, pretty damned spot on actually.

[Des-Bal]

Wow. What a great argument. It's almost as if you realize that you're wrong and just won't admit it.

I don't need to argue about what I said or meant as I was there when I said them and intimately familiar with what I was communicating. You've taken one quote out of context and made a series of wild assed assumptions to get to a place that I was never going. Further you've ignored the fact that I've clarified what I was saying repeatedly.

[Neo Art]

Bottle, as a member of the member-having portion of humanity, and as recognition to your decades of glorious service to the member-having portion of humanity, I am willing to upgrade it to a Demi-Rape.

Sign here please.

Hmm, does this mean I'm entitled to only half the amount of criticism of my personal choices and sex life to which most rape victims are subjected? Because I wouldn't want to miss out on any of that. I mean, that's most of the reason we womenfolks get ourselves raped, after all...the great attention that one enjoys as a rape victim!

I mean, normally you'd be entitled to a discount, but we'll give you the full treatment, given that you're such a good customer.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Really? So the fear and pain that someone experiences with non-consensual sexual conduct suddenly not being "actual rape" because they were asleep, isn't marginalizing?

Now you're being dishonest.

I'm saying the fear and pain they've experienced is not comparable to the fear and pain experienced in actual rape. I'm saying it's a lesser crime.

Even if the underlined were true (ignoring the term "actual rape") it would be irrelevant.

As Neo Art frequently points out, being punched on the nose may not be as bad as having your leg broken by someone else, but both fall under assault.

Sex with another person without their consent is rape, regardless of the degree of trauma experienced by the victim. There is no reason to not call that rape. And having someone betray your trust or violate you like that in your sleep is not something that should be trivialised or treated as a lesser offence than what it actually is. What it actually is...is, again, rape.

Edit..

Oh speak of the devil and...it's Batman.

[Yugoslavia-]

A thread on rape?
What is this?

[Des-Bal]

2. Substantiated by no more than the assertion "Yuh-huh"

Dear God, the irony.

No it doesn't. Intercourse in the absence of consent is clearly a crime it is not however rape.

[citation needed]

Can we see the sources that you said convinced you, please?

No because I can't find them. They were made by a rape victim explaining her position on intoxication by saying that the absence of consent wasn't the issue it was the assault and it's continuation against the victims wishes that made rape heinous. I wrote that off at first but I eventually came to agree.

[Individuality-ness]

No it doesn't. Intercourse in the absence of consent is clearly a crime it is not however rape.

Except...it is.

I mean, for the most part, that's pretty definitionally exactly what it is.

Really, pretty damned spot on actually.

You're a lawyer, right Neo? For Des's sake:

If you're drugged or asleep or mentally disabled or unconscious or whatever, can that person legally give consent? And if someone initiates sexual activity on said person, is that legally rape?

Edited for grammar (what is wrong with grammar and me today?).

[Soldati Senza Confini]

No it doesn't. Intercourse in the absence of consent is clearly a crime it is not however rape.

Except...it is.

I mean, for the most part, that's pretty definitionally exactly what it is.

Really, pretty damned spot on actually.

Couldn't have said it better

[Des-Bal]

You're a lawyer, right Neo? For Des's sake:

If you're drugged or asleep or mentally disabled or unconscious or whatever, can that person legally give consent? And if someone initiates sexual activity said person, is that legally rape?

Given that I'm arguing the law needs to changed it stands to reason I'm aware of what it currently says.

[Ifreann]

That isn't saying or implying that they default to yes. I'm saying that the absence of consent isn't what makes it rape.

Indeed you are saying that. And you saying it makes it so since...when, exactly?

---

Calling certain rapes something other than rape does not mean that they aren't rapes. There's some 60+ pages of argument that any sex without consent is rape. Do you have anything to counter that beyond what amounts to "Nuh-uh"?

I don't really need one given that those 60+ pages are
1. Filled with people who have similar or more radical ideas of what constitutes rape than I do.
2. Substantiated by no more than the assertion "Yuh-huh"
3. Really not relevant.

So do you have any argument at all for why sex without consent isn't rape sometimes?

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

...it was the assault and it's continuation against the victims wishes that made rape heinous.

And this makes having sex with an unconscious person not rape because...

[Ifreann]

You're a lawyer, right Neo? For Des's sake:

If you're drugged or asleep or mentally disabled or unconscious or whatever, can that person legally give consent? And if someone initiates sexual activity said person, is that legally rape?

Given that I'm arguing the law needs to changed it stands to reason I'm aware of what it currently says.

That does not stand to reason at all, and that you think it does only makes it more likely that you do not know what the law currently says.

---

A thread on rape?
What is this?

A thread on rape.

[Des-Bal]

Even if the underlined were true (ignoring the term "actual rape") it would be irrelevant.

As Neo Art frequently points out, being punched on the nose may not be as bad as having your leg broken by someone else, but both fall under assault.

Sex with another person without their consent is rape, regardless of the degree of trauma experienced by the victim. There is no reason to not call that rape. And having someone betray your trust or violate you like that in your sleep is not something that should be trivialised or treated as a lesser offence than what it actually is. What it actually is...is, again, rape.

Edit..

Oh speak of the devil and...it's Batman.

Assault, aggravated assault, attempted murder- all different crimes differentiated by the elements of the case.

[Des-Bal]

And this makes having sex with an unconscious person not rape because...

Because the absence of consent isn't what matters, it is again the assault occurring and continuing in direct opposition to the victims expressed wishes.