Men need to be trained to not rape.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I don't even...

This is why we need to educate people about rape and consent.

This post. This very post.

This is why.

So all I said is that consent must be withdrawn during or before said sexual act and in a way that makes it clear to the partner that they do not wish to continue. If you would like to present a logical argument then please do so; otherwise I suggest you stop making yourself look foolish.

Ok, am I the only one who is seeing just how fucking convoluted some people are making this or what?

It's fucking easy. Really.

Before you're to engage in sexual behavior with someone, ask them if they want to have sex with you. If they say 'yes', then you have sex. If they say no, then you fucking abstain.

Is that so hard to follow? Jesus H. Christ.

[Free Council Communes]

(Image)

With statistics like these, you deny the fact that people need to be trained not to rape.

As for the use of "men" in the title, that's because it's ingrained in our culture that it's okay for men to rape. It isn't ingrained in our culture that it's okay for women to rape.

I dare you to give an example of one cultural phenomena promoting rape.

[Conserative Morality]

Which one?

'Most rape victims are women'. In light of both the overwhelmingly male prison system, similar social stigma against men coming out as having been raped (Although with separate justifications), and the aforementioned only recently changed definition of rape (Originally it was "the carnal knowledge of a female, forcibly and against her will."), it would seem to me that asserting that one sex is raped more than the other is not necessarily helpful and possibly untrue.

[Ifreann]

Feminists don't have the responsibility to talk about female-on-male rape when:
1) The issue, in this topic in particular, is the social and cultural factors involved in the widespread persistence of vast percentages of males who actually believe that some actions (which legally fall into the category of rape) are not actually "rape", or they wrongfully believe that certain actions or attitudes from women indirectly implied consent to sex.
2) Feminism is a social and political movement focused almost entirely on the problems regarding conscious and unconscious prejudices towards women in human civilization.

Actually, sexual acts should be considered consensual unless one partner directly & verbally objects to said sexual act.

Oh gods, my brain...you can't possibly mean this, you can't, it's too patently insane, you have to be fucking with us.

[Individuality-ness]

(Image)

With statistics like these, you deny the fact that people need to be trained not to rape.

As for the use of "men" in the title, that's because it's ingrained in our culture that it's okay for men to rape. It isn't ingrained in our culture that it's okay for women to rape.

What culture ingrained you to believe it's okay for men to rape? Does it grow in a Petri dish?

Considering that we live in a culture where we tell people "if a woman does <x slutty thing> she deserves it!", yes, we do have such a culture.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Well, men can prevent rape. By not raping. See how easy that is?

Women can prevent rape. By not raping.

I'm not sure what is a false dichotomy about this.

My only concern is that rather typically it is only men who are referred to. I would like women to be referred to as well, by it being changed to 'people'. That's all. I don't think it should be assumed that 'men' also includes women.

I've been saying this all along. People.

We need to educate all people on this.

[Individuality-ness]

Which one?

'Most rape victims are women'. In light of both the overwhelmingly male prison system, similar social stigma against men coming out as having been raped (Although with separate justifications), and the aforementioned only recently changed definition of rape (Originally it was "the carnal knowledge of a female, forcibly and against her will."), it would seem to me that asserting that one sex is raped more than the other is not necessarily helpful and possibly untrue.

I remember the definition change. Any stats to show that now it's about equal?

I was calling it off the top of my head of reported rapes; I could be wrong.

[Free Council Communes]

So all I said is that consent must be withdrawn during or before said sexual act and in a way that makes it clear to the partner that they do not wish to continue. If you would like to present a logical argument then please do so; otherwise I suggest you stop making yourself look foolish.

Ok, am I the only one who is seeing just how fucking convoluted some people are making this or what?

It's fucking easy. Really.

Before you're to engage in sexual behavior with someone, ask them if they want to have sex with you. If they say 'yes', then you have sex. If they say no, then you fucking abstain.

Is that so hard to follow? Jesus H. Christ.

Sorry but it's sort of awkward to ask someone "Wanna have sex" as your getting into bed with them. It is your responsibly to ensure that your partner is aware that you so not want to have sex with them. It is not rape simply because they didn't ask first.

[Oceania-Eurasia-Eastasia]

My only concern is that rather typically it is only men who are referred to. I would like women to be referred to as well, by it being changed to 'people'. That's all. I don't think it should be assumed that 'men' also includes women.

Well, most men seem to believe it is okay to force women to have sex with them. That makes this problem fall primarily on this narrative.

Hmmmm. Most men I know seem to anguish over an inability to get sex, consensual or otherwise.

[Freelanderness]

You read what he posted.

And it's true. Feminism is concerned with what happens to women. That's why it's called feminism. There's no injustice there.

Since feminists generally propose that they are the only people qualified to speak on the subject of gender relations and smear anyone else who tries to--yes it is injustice. Saying "men can prevent rape" proposes a false dichotomy.

Lol are you serious? I, the one and only ego, am allowed to speak on issues of gender relations. Now sit down son, and let the kyriarch tear us a new one.

[Liriena]

Feminists don't have the responsibility to talk about female-on-male rape when:
1) The issue, in this topic in particular, is the social and cultural factors involved in the widespread persistence of vast percentages of males who actually believe that some actions (which legally fall into the category of rape) are not actually "rape", or they wrongfully believe that certain actions or attitudes from women indirectly implied consent to sex.
2) Feminism is a social and political movement focused almost entirely on the problems regarding conscious and unconscious prejudices towards women in human civilization.

Actually, sexual acts should be considered consensual unless one partner directly & verbally objects to said sexual act.

So, if I fuck a woman while she's sleeping or too intoxicated to think, let alone talk, it's not rape?

[Freelanderness]

Well, most men seem to believe it is okay to force women to have sex with them. That makes this problem fall primarily on this narrative.

Hmmmm. Most men I know seem to anguish over an inability to get sex, consensual or otherwise.

Most men I know hate being generalised. Fancy that!

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Ok, am I the only one who is seeing just how fucking convoluted some people are making this or what?

It's fucking easy. Really.

Before you're to engage in sexual behavior with someone, ask them if they want to have sex with you. If they say 'yes', then you have sex. If they say no, then you fucking abstain.

Is that so hard to follow? Jesus H. Christ.

Sorry but it's sort of awkward to ask someone "Wanna have sex" as your getting into bed with them. It is your responsibly to ensure that your partner is aware that you so not want to have sex with them. It is not rape simply because they didn't ask first.

Ok... what?

When I want to have sex I ask my husband. If he says yes, we have sex. If not, then no. And vice versa, he asks me. If I assent, we do. If I don't, we don't.

What's fucking awkward about asking?

[Freelanderness]

Ok, am I the only one who is seeing just how fucking convoluted some people are making this or what?

It's fucking easy. Really.

Before you're to engage in sexual behavior with someone, ask them if they want to have sex with you. If they say 'yes', then you have sex. If they say no, then you fucking abstain.

Is that so hard to follow? Jesus H. Christ.

Sorry but it's sort of awkward to ask someone "Wanna have sex" as your getting into bed with them. It is your responsibly to ensure that your partner is aware that you so not want to have sex with them. It is not rape simply because they didn't ask first.

To the contrary, it's very sexy and not awkward. Just try it next time and see how it goes and then come back.

[Eliasonia]

Feminists don't have the responsibility to talk about female-on-male rape when:
1) The issue, in this topic in particular, is the social and cultural factors involved in the widespread persistence of vast percentages of males who actually believe that some actions (which legally fall into the category of rape) are not actually "rape", or they wrongfully believe that certain actions or attitudes from women indirectly implied consent to sex.
2) Feminism is a social and political movement focused almost entirely on the problems regarding conscious and unconscious prejudices towards women in human civilization.

Actually, sexual acts should be considered consensual unless one partner directly & verbally objects to said sexual act.

So if some dickwad roofies a girl up at a party and proceeds to get down and dirty it isn't rape because she didn't say no? Preventing rape is not as easy as just saying "no", and not all cases of rape happen with the victim even being aware. That viewpoint is very, very misguided.

[Zweite Alaje]

What culture ingrained you to believe it's okay for men to rape? Does it grow in a Petri dish?

Considering that we live in a culture where we tell people "if a woman does <x slutty thing> she deserves it!", yes, we do have such a culture.

It's not so much that it's a "she deserves it" more "she made herself a target".

[Individuality-ness]

Ok, am I the only one who is seeing just how fucking convoluted some people are making this or what?

It's fucking easy. Really.

Before you're to engage in sexual behavior with someone, ask them if they want to have sex with you. If they say 'yes', then you have sex. If they say no, then you fucking abstain.

Is that so hard to follow? Jesus H. Christ.

Sorry but it's sort of awkward to ask someone "Wanna have sex" as your getting into bed with them. It is your responsibly to ensure that your partner is aware that you so not want to have sex with them. It is not rape simply because they didn't ask first.

No it's not. You could make it part of foreplay; saying "honey, want to get it on?" is easy.

And no, it's your responsibility to know whether your partner wants sex. It would be rape otherwise.

[Free Council Communes]

What culture ingrained you to believe it's okay for men to rape? Does it grow in a Petri dish?

Considering that we live in a culture where we tell people "if a woman does <x slutty thing> she deserves it!", yes, we do have such a culture.

No, we do not. Our current culture actually teaches women that they can get away with whatever they want. This is the same feminist lie I hear over and over and merely proves how naive feminists are.

[Oceania-Eurasia-Eastasia]

Hmmmm. Most men I know seem to anguish over an inability to get sex, consensual or otherwise.

Most men I know hate being generalised. Fancy that!

But surely we all need to be deprogrammed from raping, no?

[Nadkor]

I don't even...

This is why we need to educate people about rape and consent.

This post. This very post.

This is why.

So all I said is that consent must be withdrawn during or before said sexual act and in a way that makes it clear to the partner that they do not wish to continue.

No you said that the default position should be that any sexual act should be considered to be consensual unless the person on whom the sexual act is being performed directly and verbally withdraws consent.

This opinion is why education about rape and about consent is needed. This very opinion, and opinions like it. These opinions lead people to rape other people, thinking that they've done nothing wrong.

You are why education about rape and about consent is needed. You have opinions that might lead you to rape another person while thinking that you're doing nothing wrong.

If you would like to present a logical argument then please do so

Unless someone has given consent it should not be presumed that consent has been given? There should not be a presumption of consent when it comes to sexual acts. In fact, there should be no presumption of consent when it comes to doing anything to or with another individual's body.

Tale, for example, the following scenario:
I'm asleep. I'm a really deep sleeper - it takes a lot to wake me. A man raises my skirt and penetrates me with his penis, without me waking. I do not directly and verbally express that I do not consent.

You said that "Actually, sexual acts should be considered consensual unless one partner directly & verbally objects to said sexual act."

In the scenario given, have I been raped?

With your nonsense presumption of consent the answer would be "no".

otherwise I suggest you stop making yourself look foolish.

Right on.

[Free Council Communes]

Sorry but it's sort of awkward to ask someone "Wanna have sex" as your getting into bed with them. It is your responsibly to ensure that your partner is aware that you so not want to have sex with them. It is not rape simply because they didn't ask first.

No it's not. You could make it part of foreplay; saying "honey, want to get it on?" is easy.

And no, it's your responsibility to know whether your partner wants sex. It would be rape otherwise.

So if I'm having sex with a women and she simply assumes I'm consenting because I'm fucking her; do I get to call rape? If not, then that would technically be a huge double standard.

[Liriena]

Ok, am I the only one who is seeing just how fucking convoluted some people are making this or what?

It's fucking easy. Really.

Before you're to engage in sexual behavior with someone, ask them if they want to have sex with you. If they say 'yes', then you have sex. If they say no, then you fucking abstain.

Is that so hard to follow? Jesus H. Christ.

Sorry but it's sort of awkward to ask someone "Wanna have sex" as your getting into bed with them.

Well aren't you a luminary.

It is your responsibly to ensure that your partner is aware that you so not want to have sex with them.

Yay for victim blaming!

It is not rape simply because they didn't ask first.

Actually...it is.
Congratulations, they're going to slaughter you in Law School.

[Eliasonia]

Ok, am I the only one who is seeing just how fucking convoluted some people are making this or what?

It's fucking easy. Really.

Before you're to engage in sexual behavior with someone, ask them if they want to have sex with you. If they say 'yes', then you have sex. If they say no, then you fucking abstain.

Is that so hard to follow? Jesus H. Christ.

Sorry but it's sort of awkward to ask someone "Wanna have sex" as your getting into bed with them. It is your responsibly to ensure that your partner is aware that you so not want to have sex with them. It is not rape simply because they didn't ask first.

It's really not though, that's sort of how you determine if someone wants to have sex with you...

[Ifreann]

Ok, am I the only one who is seeing just how fucking convoluted some people are making this or what?

It's fucking easy. Really.

Before you're to engage in sexual behavior with someone, ask them if they want to have sex with you. If they say 'yes', then you have sex. If they say no, then you fucking abstain.

Is that so hard to follow? Jesus H. Christ.

Sorry but it's sort of awkward to ask someone "Wanna have sex" as your getting into bed with them.

A slightly awkward moment before sex is better than fucking raping someone.

It is your responsibly to ensure that your partner is aware that you so not want to have sex with them. It is not rape simply because they didn't ask first.

It is not rape simply because they didn't ask first.

It is not rape simply because they didn't ask first.

[Individuality-ness]

No it's not. You could make it part of foreplay; saying "honey, want to get it on?" is easy.

And no, it's your responsibility to know whether your partner wants sex. It would be rape otherwise.

So if I'm having sex with a women and she simply assumes I'm consenting because I'm fucking her; do I get to call rape? If not, then that would technically be a huge double standard.

If it was nonconsensual sex, then yes, you can call rape.