Falkland/Malvinas Islands Debate- Your Opinion?

[Minnysota]

Seeing as we keep nitpicking over issues, let's do a proper staff exercise on this.

Argentine plan in the inital stages.

1. Infiltrators land on the Falklands with the goal of disabling the RAF aircraft on the island. For the sake of discussion, assume one SF team with anti-tank rifles knock out the aircraft while they are scrambling.
2. Argentine Air Force bombs RAF base. Argentine Navy supports landing operations.
3. Argentine ground troops take the island.

(All three would be difficult, but not impossible)

Follow-up.

1. Argentine troops dig in on the island. Land based SSM and SAM missiles flown in to the Falklands.
2. Argentine Navy stays in coastal waters under LBA umbrella acting as a fleet-in-being.
3. British Navy must then engage on Argentina's terms.

My own evaluation is that unless everything goes very well in the first three stages of the operation, the plan is a bust. The critical factor is knocking out the RAF aircraft and base right off the bat. After that, things start to swing more in the advantage of Argentina.

Is the plan feasable? Probably not. I wouldn't want to be the one to order it. Is Britain this unbeatable power who will never lose the islands? No, it isn't. Could Britain re-take the islands? Probably, though the cost would be steep.

You don't remember anything I ever told you. LoL

[Imperiatom]

And lads don't forget the SAS/SBS i am sure they would do some raiding with the commando's off key Argentine instillation's.

[Edward Richtofen]

from my limited knowledge of the Falklands,
The inhabitants are primarily british but consider themselves Falklanders
Argentina has only a geographic claim to the falklands
The British had it fair and square from military conquests
If the Falklands were independant Argentina would invade it and get their 2nd class army ripped to shreds by the Classic Allies
Based on massive desire for land it supposedly has no recent claim on, Argentina has showed themselves to be The Israel Of South America

[Machtergreifung]

Ah, the good old "Civies don't understand." argument against a valid point. Have fun sending tired pilots in worn planes out for extended combat operations. Even more so considering how maintainace heavy the Eurofighter is.

Ever heard of the battle of britian? Those tired old pilots and worn out planes saved all of our butts after 4 months of continual combat. If you knew any facts the typhoon has one of the lowest maintenance downtime of any jet fighter.

Source? It's also worth noting that the BoB came close to 1:1 loss rates for both sides (that is including the German bombers).

[Machtergreifung]

Seeing as we keep nitpicking over issues, let's do a proper staff exercise on this.

Argentine plan in the inital stages.

1. Infiltrators land on the Falklands with the goal of disabling the RAF aircraft on the island. For the sake of discussion, assume one SF team with anti-tank rifles knock out the aircraft while they are scrambling.
2. Argentine Air Force bombs RAF base. Argentine Navy supports landing operations.
3. Argentine ground troops take the island.

(All three would be difficult, but not impossible)

Follow-up.

1. Argentine troops dig in on the island. Land based SSM and SAM missiles flown in to the Falklands.
2. Argentine Navy stays in coastal waters under LBA umbrella acting as a fleet-in-being.
3. British Navy must then engage on Argentina's terms.

My own evaluation is that unless everything goes very well in the first three stages of the operation, the plan is a bust. The critical factor is knocking out the RAF aircraft and base right off the bat. After that, things start to swing more in the advantage of Argentina.

Is the plan feasable? Probably not. I wouldn't want to be the one to order it. Is Britain this unbeatable power who will never lose the islands? No, it isn't. Could Britain re-take the islands? Probably, though the cost would be steep.

You don't remember anything I ever told you. LoL

Oh, no, I do. It's a lost cause on every level. It's my own little Operation Ten-Go. Which is probably the prefect comparison to this operation.

[Minnysota]

Source? It's also worth noting that the BoB came close to 1:1 loss rates for both sides (that is including the German bombers).

It's also not fair to hold lolArgentina's Air Force up to Luftwaffe standards.

[Imperiatom]

Seeing as we keep nitpicking over issues, let's do a proper staff exercise on this.

Argentine plan in the inital stages.

1. Infiltrators land on the Falklands with the goal of disabling the RAF aircraft on the island. For the sake of discussion, assume one SF team with anti-tank rifles knock out the aircraft while they are scrambling.
2. Argentine Air Force bombs RAF base. Argentine Navy supports landing operations.
3. Argentine ground troops take the island.

(All three would be difficult, but not impossible)

Follow-up.

1. Argentine troops dig in on the island. Land based SSM and SAM missiles flown in to the Falklands.
2. Argentine Navy stays in coastal waters under LBA umbrella acting as a fleet-in-being.
3. British Navy must then engage on Argentina's terms.

My own evaluation is that unless everything goes very well in the first three stages of the operation, the plan is a bust. The critical factor is knocking out the RAF aircraft and base right off the bat. After that, things start to swing more in the advantage of Argentina.

Is the plan feasable? Probably not. I wouldn't want to be the one to order it. Is Britain this unbeatable power who will never lose the islands? No, it isn't. Could Britain re-take the islands? Probably, though the cost would be steep.

One problem with that plan is they don't have special forces like the SAS they have a few commandos with the paras but they don't have the equipment to carry this kind of mission out.

[Fintanland]

Based on massive desire for land it supposedly has no recent claim on, Argentina has showed themselves to be The Israel Of South America

Did you have to drag The Country That Must Not Be Named into a perfectly peaceful Falkland Islands dogpile?

[Imperiatom]

Ever heard of the battle of britian? Those tired old pilots and worn out planes saved all of our butts after 4 months of continual combat. If you knew any facts the typhoon has one of the lowest maintenance downtime of any jet fighter.

Source? It's also worth noting that the BoB came close to 1:1 loss rates for both sides (that is including the German bombers).

Yes is did in planes but in men they lost about 4-5 times more. in 1982 we shot down 45 planes with another 21 destroyed on the ground. guess how many we lost?

9 so that's about 7-1

[Kryskov]

Actually, if Britain could surround the Islands and blockade it, and then use the helicopters to take out anti-ship missiles, the Argentinian forces would be effectively blockaded.

[New Ravenrock]

Actually, if Britain could surround the Islands and blockade it, and then use the helicopters to take out anti-ship missiles, the Argentinian forces would be effectively blockaded.

True, but if the Argentians could even take the islands is the true thing they would have to worry about if they went to war with Britian. Britain has the help of their Ally the USA.

[Palmeiros]

it was wrong what Britian did in the 1980s.. they kicked 70% of the population out that were all Spanish speaking Argentinians. los Malvinas should be Argentinian. why do the british need to be down there in the first place? colonial era is over.. and war is not the answer because if it does get bad, countries of latino America would intervene.. and if they intervene a lot of britians resource inports would be cut because of the minerals, metals and all sorts of jazz that britians depends on.

[Machtergreifung]

Source? It's also worth noting that the BoB came close to 1:1 loss rates for both sides (that is including the German bombers).

Yes is did in planes but in men they lost about 4-5 times more. in 1982 we shot down 45 planes with another 21 destroyed on the ground. guess how many we lost?

2 destroyers, 2 frigates, 1 LSL landing ship, 1 LCU amphibious craft,1 container ship, 24 helicopters and 10 fighters.

Source? It's also worth noting that the BoB came close to 1:1 loss rates for both sides (that is including the German bombers).

It's also not fair to hold lolArgentina's Air Force up to Luftwaffe standards.

Hence the Ten-Go comparison.

Actually, if Britain could surround the Islands and blockade it, and then use the helicopters to take out anti-ship missiles, the Argentinian forces would be effectively blockaded.

While Argentine AA emplacements...watch?

[Imperiatom]

Ever heard of the battle of britian? Those tired old pilots and worn out planes saved all of our butts after 4 months of continual combat. If you knew any facts the typhoon has one of the lowest maintenance downtime of any jet fighter.

Source? It's also worth noting that the BoB came close to 1:1 loss rates for both sides (that is including the German bombers).

It is to illustrate how these tired battered souls can go through the barrier to protect their people.

[Machtergreifung]

Source? It's also worth noting that the BoB came close to 1:1 loss rates for both sides (that is including the German bombers).

It is to illustrate how these tired battered souls can go through the barrier to protect their people.

Still, a source?

[Fintanland]

it was wrong what Britian did in the 1980s.. they kicked 70% of the population out that were all Spanish speaking Argentinians. los Malvinas should be Argentinian. why do the british need to be down there in the first place? colonial era is over.. and war is not the answer because if it does get bad, countries of latino America would intervene.. and if they intervene a lot of britians resource inports would be cut because of the minerals, metals and all sorts of jazz that britians depends on.

When did they kick out 70 % of the population? And if you want to pander to the enemy, at least get your Spanish right. Jeez, traitors these days.

[Imperiatom]

Yes is did in planes but in men they lost about 4-5 times more. in 1982 we shot down 45 planes with another 21 destroyed on the ground. guess how many we lost?

2 destroyers, 2 frigates, 1 LSL landing ship, 1 LCU amphibious craft,1 container ship, 24 helicopters and 10 fighters.

It's also not fair to hold lolArgentina's Air Force up to Luftwaffe standards.

Hence the Ten-Go comparison.

Actually, if Britain could surround the Islands and blockade it, and then use the helicopters to take out anti-ship missiles, the Argentinian forces would be effectively blockaded.

While Argentine AA emplacements...watch?

I should have added in combat. otherwise you know the Argentine total almost breaks 100. plus at least as many ships.
Half of our losses were our own fault having accidents plus the bad fortune of being on the container ship when it went down

[Maurepas]

We could do something really different and go the Cyprus route.

In terms of what?

Not giving it to either side and having it be an independent Republic. The analogy was supposed to indicate that Greece and Turkey are akin to Britain and Argentina.

[Edward Richtofen]

Based on massive desire for land it supposedly has no recent claim on, Argentina has showed themselves to be The Israel Of South America

Did you have to drag The Country That Must Not Be Named into a perfectly peaceful Falkland Islands dogpile?

Si senor, I am pro-Israel but even I will only support a country so far.
And besides it makes an excellent analogy.
But in fair spirits, I am rooting for Argie in the next war as Im an american and americans like the underdog

[Machtergreifung]

2 destroyers, 2 frigates, 1 LSL landing ship, 1 LCU amphibious craft,1 container ship, 24 helicopters and 10 fighters.



Hence the Ten-Go comparison.




While Argentine AA emplacements...watch?

I should have added in combat. otherwise you know the Argentine total almost breaks 100. plus at least as many ships.

1 WW2 crusier, a patrol boat and four (?) other ships in exchange for two modern warships is a excellent trade IMO.

[Samuraikoku]

Did you have to drag The Country That Must Not Be Named into a perfectly peaceful Falkland Islands dogpile?

Si senor, I am pro-Israel but even I will only support a country so far.
And besides it makes an excellent analogy.

We have no U.S. backing us, nor do the rest of Latin America want to wipe us off the planet. At least not openly.

[Edward Richtofen]

Si senor, I am pro-Israel but even I will only support a country so far.
And besides it makes an excellent analogy.

We have no U.S. backing us, nor do the rest of Latin America want to wipe us off the planet. At least not openly.

You want land that you supposedly have no valid claim over

[Fintanland]

You want land that you supposedl have no valid claim over

Many countries do. Japan. Russia. China. Indonesia. Brunei. Italy.

[Samuraikoku]

You want land that you supposedly have no valid claim over

Not supposedly. Evidence shows quite clearly that we don't.

[Imperiatom]

I should have added in combat. otherwise you know the Argentine total almost breaks 100. plus at least as many ships.

1 WW2 crusier, a patrol boat and four (?) other ships in exchange for two modern warships is a excellent trade IMO.

Brilliant trade if you don't mind losing war.